poker and god?!

[InertGrudge 0]

are you new inertgrudge? its the same reason i dont touch these topics on the forum anymore, only through PM's

Yep, I'm real new to the forum. Extremely new.This is my third post ever.

[neverfold 0]

Preface: I am neither religious, atheist, agnostic, or the follower of any other belief system.I love the self-indulgent people who preach that Science is the one and only answer and has some inherent merit that religion doesn't. I believe that neither is "the answer" to what life is and how the universe works, but I respect the right of anyone to believe in either. Science is a product of humans. Humans are subordinate to the universe. How can we expect to describe something we are subordinate to by use of something we've fabricated? People define science as "truth", some unarguable axiom inextricably linked to the inner workings of the universe. How can you make the claim that one explanation is "more correct" than another?Look at mathematics. All mathmeticians would agree that there is no arguing that 2+2 is 4. But WHY? Because someone, a long time ago, made up a sound "two" and a symbol "2" and decided that it could be added onto a duplicate of itself to create the sound "four" and the symbol "4"? It is all random.DN has the right to believe in God, just like you have the right to believe in scientific theories (notice the word THEORIES - there is no INDISPUTABLE proof in scientific theories of how the universe was created).

And too, if you actually read the bible, it sounds like such a crazy fairy tale, particularly the New Testament

The Bible is an allegory that outlines basic ways of living and life lessons that are intended to guide people towards living a better life. There is just as much merit in what was written in the bible as in one day randomly saying "things fall because of a word I just made up called "gravity".

Wake up, read about the universe, the many, MANY MILLIONS of other galaxies out there, read what science has to say about the actual age of our universe and our Earth. If after reading, and THINKING, about these things for a long time, if you still can believe in some strange deity who allegedly cares about the outcomes of poker matches and football games, fine, there's nothing I can do for you. But at least make the effort, becaue I'm sure you'd be surprised what you find out there with your "Mind" OPEN!

What hypocritical ignorance. You talk about keeping your mind open and in the same breath say that the only possible explanation for the universe is the one that science lays out. Using logic, I defy you to tell me that there is any more of a reason to believe that God exists than there is to believe what a teacher stands infront of you and tells you about science. You can't prove either, and if you do, you are simply using nominal fallacy: "Well, the universe was clearly created by something other than God because of a system of events I just made up and cannot prove".Life is indefinite, but people will always strive to define it. Believe in what you wish, and let others believe in what they see fit. "Correct" and "truth" are only words that humans made up and attached to a nebulous meaning. You're right from your side, and I'm right from mine - you are correct in what you believe because you believe that "right" defines your beliefs, and "wrong" defines others'. In reality, everything is subjective, and you should embrace this rather than preaching that your "answer" is the only one.Life is not black and white, it is abstract. There is room in the world for both self-ordained professors and prophets, but neither are infallibly correct. This belief in one truth that you spout is the reason for all the world's conflicts.

[InertGrudge 0]

The poster above me should post more, as he is one of the few people that make sense.Bravo sir.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

The poster above me should post more, as he is one of the few people that make sense.Bravo sir.

I usually stay out of these discussions because of how retarted they get, but I have to agree.

[Dave23 0]

How can you make the claim that one explanation is "more correct" than another?You are not one of these 'intelligent design' idiots are you?

[LongLiveYorke 38]

People define science as "truth", some unarguable axiom inextricably linked to the inner workings of the universe. How can you make the claim that one explanation is "more correct" than another?

I don't know... evidence?

Look at mathematics. All mathmeticians would agree that there is no arguing that 2+2 is 4. But WHY? Because someone, a long time ago, made up a sound "two" and a symbol "2" and decided that it could be added onto a duplicate of itself to create the sound "four" and the symbol "4"? It is all random.

No. It's a self consistant and totally a priori framework that comes about through logic. Of course, the names we use to describe numbers are, as you say, "random," but this does not mean that numbers are made up. I don't think you understand either science or math very well.

[neverfold 0]

I don't think you understand either science or math very well.

Yes... a MSc in Physics clearly shows little understanding of both. It's through fully understanding them that I saw through them.

You are not one of these 'intelligent design' idiots are you?

Read the first thing I wrote in the post... :roll: I don't believe in any specific set of beliefs.

[blakheart 3]

The poster above me should post more, as he is one of the few people that make sense.Bravo sir.

I concur-Very well thought out post.I am a Christian but I certainly don't begrudge anyone of any opinion. It is an unwinnable arguement and an unprovable hypothsis. When Religion is at its best it teaches people to respect each other and to deal with each other in a "christian" manner. At its worse it excuses horrible behavior by one group against another based on a differnce of opinion.I think the vast majority of "religious" people do not believe that god takes an active role in the outcome of a poker tournament or a football game. In fact DN's point to me was that by living a better more centered life he was able to focus better and play better. The act of praying and reading the bible helped him play at his best. I ded not read anywhere he claimed God chose him to win.Following a religious tradition is ver comforting for many people. It helps to give one a sense of relevance and purpose other than self interest. At some point pure selfishness is destructive to oneself. Religion or faith in God is a vehicle to use to help you decide where your priorities should lie. I do not understand the knee jerk reaction on either side of this issue. I do not intend to convince you of my opinion, any more then you could ever change mine. If you do not believe in God that is fine. There is no reason to be offended if someone else does.

[Loismustdie 0]

Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, whether you believe it or not.

is this in the Bible?? You know, that one book which some guys just wrote and say that everyone must follow????

Stop.Now.Seriously, stop it. Why must all discussions of religion boil down to this bullshit? Are people incapable of having mature conversations about difficult subjects anymore? Do we really have to belittle each other and spout off this shit?If you want to get into a serious discussion about religion, I'm all for it. Discussion harbors understanding. Understanding is what it is all about.So, please...stop it. Stop it with your arguments that will only cause people to get offended. Say something intelligent and reasoned, for crying out loud.

Thank you, Inert Grudge I am now a big fan of yours because of this. Well said. The senseless flaming by the same people everyday just gets annoying. I need to go to work, but I will post in this thread later and I wil write an entry in my blog about this very thing.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Science isn't a set of beliefs, and it is silly to compare it to something like religion. It is the logical progression of self consistent theories that are in accordince with the physical evidence of the universe that we are able to collect. No real scientist ever claims that any aspect of science is "truth" or final, because they all know that science only consists of gradually improving theories of the universe. It is impossible to "prove" any scientific theory, and science recognizes this. This is what makes it different than religion: the fact that is it aware of its imperfections.

[gnd8888 0]

The great thing about science is that people put their work out there and say disprove it. To be good science you have to replicate your results time and time again.Sure you can choose to not believe in gravity if you want to, since it's just a made up term according to one poster's logic. However your beliefs and science will come to a collision if you decide to step off a tall building, I wonder what theory will win out.

[mcpickl 0]

why does anyone care what someone elses beliefs are?some believe in God....greatsome dont......also greatwhy hammer someone who doesnt share your religious beliefs?i dont get it

[reedmcneal 0]

Just because linguistically speaking words seem random, does not mean their meaning is random. If there were some intelligent species on the other end of the universe(not that I believe that), I am pretty sure they would believe that 2 + 2 = 4, not in those exact words, but they would have a proof similar to ours. I do not think they would also have a book that was similar to the bible, and claimed a man died for the sins of all.I just happen to think that math can be described as universal. The Christian bible, I am not so sure. :roll:

[CBFalcon 0]

I never want to play poker against God because I feel like he'd know my hole cards.

[mcpickl 0]

I never want to play poker against Gof because I feel like he'd know my hole cards.

Whos Gof?

[soup 0]

It's so interesting to hear people speaking about being good servants of "God", while living  a life completely opposite of what "God" would like, should he exist.Here's Daniel, saying "I've been focusing on 'God' lately, being a better husband, son,  and friend."  Now, let's see:  He lives, and works, in "Sin City". Keyword: "Sin".  His profession is exactly  opposite of what "God" would technically allow. His lifestyle, constantly engaging in "Sin"  in "Sin City", while occasionally reading the bible and saying he's close to God, is so funny  that I alway laugh outloud when he mentions "God".  Now, being educated, taking many different college courses, you find out about histories  of religion, and people's thoughts on "God".  Many people think of "God" as just worshipping  their community and family, but having to put a tag on it as though it comes from "above". Daniel  is being a better person lately, which is surely responsible for success, but to say "God" brought  this about is quite a good joke. It comes from being centered, and being responsible, and being  kind to all of the people in your life.  It's a seemingly "spiritual" energy, sure, but to think DN's way  is saying that "God" is watching over poker tournaments, making sure that someone who  mentions "Him" will win the tournament, similar to pro football or basketball players claiming  a relationship with "God", since surely "He" is watching over the Super Bowl as well, to make sure the more "Godly" team wins.  My biggest complaint with "God" is this:  What about all the Native Americans, north and south,  who had never heard of this "God" before when contacted, or "discovered" by Columbus.  If "God"  is responsible for creating everyone, and those who deny "Him"  being heathen sinners, how is it possible for brown people to exist on this continent and worship the "Sun", or other strange mythical deities.  And too, if you actually read the bible, it sounds like such a crazy fairy tale, particularly the New Testament.  All these kings telling their people that "God" wished for them to slaughter other people because "God" had told him that "He" wanted them to have the other people's land. It's just like politics today, but i'm sure most people really believed that "God" had said this, so it was OK to carry out all of these insane genocides after genocides, since that what "He" wanted.  The bible: A Tale of Horrific Genocide.  If people are truly "God's" people, they should be spending a majority of their lives preaching about "God" in the streets, and not just mentioning "Him" in a blog occasionally and thinking this will get them into "Heaven".  Do I wish for anyone to actually do this? NO, because I'm mature enough now, and have read enough, to know that "God" is a fairy tale, a myth used to subjugate a population and commit genocide for the sake of imperialism, similar to Bush today claiming he has a strong relationship with "God" while indiscriminantly slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people around the world for the real God,  "Oil".  Wake up, read about the universe, the many, MANY MILLIONS of other galaxies out there, read what science has to say about the actual age of our universe and our Earth.  If after reading, and THINKING, about these things for a long time, if you still can believe in some strange deity who allegedly cares about the outcomes of poker matches and football games, fine, there's nothing I can do for you.  But at least make the effort, becaue I'm sure you'd be surprised what you find out there with your "Mind" OPEN! :twisted:

he plays cards..."Sin City", if he's not doing girls downtown, shooting up on the strip, or pick pocketing tourist. STFU...It's a job dippy. get a life.

[soup 0]

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[reedmcneal 0]

God loves to donk out

[brvheart 1,752]

Now, let's see:  He lives, and works, in "Sin City". Keyword: "Sin".  His profession is exactly  opposite of what "God" would technically allow. His lifestyle, constantly engaging in "Sin"  in "Sin City", while occasionally reading the bible and saying he's close to God, is so funny  that I alway laugh outloud when he mentions "God".   :twisted:

Where in the Bible are you getting anything about God thinking that poker is sinful? I'm interested. Also, just because someone believes in God doesn't make them stupid. Two big name atheist scholars that I can think of off the top of my head are C.S. Lewis and Antony Flew. They were both atheists for 20+ years, and both professors at scholarly universities. Both became theists. Lewis is a story most know, and Flew in 2003 admitted his change through studying the topic his entire life. While he still admits that he thinks God is an unpersonal God (which I disagree with), he now believes there is a God. Flew is NOT an idiot, which is an important point. It seems that atheists find it impossible to debate this issue, without basically calling the other side censored morons. Which is unfortunate, because debate and open discussion is a good thing. High School level insults are not.www.biola.edu/antonyflew/flew-interview.pdf

[KowboyKoop 0]

Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, whether you believe it or not.

is this in the Bible?? You know, that one book which some guys just wrote and say that everyone must follow????

Stop.Now.Seriously, stop it. Why must all discussions of religion boil down to this bullshit? Are people incapable of having mature conversations about difficult subjects anymore? Do we really have to belittle each other and spout off this shit?If you want to get into a serious discussion about religion, I'm all for it. Discussion harbors understanding. Understanding is what it is all about.So, please...stop it. Stop it with your arguments that will only cause people to get offended. Say something intelligent and reasoned, for crying out loud.

Thank you, Inert Grudge I am now a big fan of yours because of this. Well said. The senseless flaming by the same people everyday just gets annoying. I need to go to work, but I will post in this thread later and I wil write an entry in my blog about this very thing.

How is what I wrote a "flame??" I said that the Bible doesn't have credibility in my eyes because some guys just wrote stuff that they thought was the "word of God." How the f*ck am I to know it is the "word of God..." because they said so??? If it truly were the word of God, why doesn't he come tell me himself. Until then, I don't like the Bible. That's all I said..you know, since that is EXACTLY what we are talking about. I wasn't flaming anyone, I said I dislike the Bible. Deal with it. I didn't personally insult any single person, so shut the f*ck up about me flaming....if you want to "flame me" for "flaming" other people, do it in a thread where I actually flamed someone.

[screech 0]

Common sense tells me the idea of an omnipotent god is ridiculous, as are you.

[TS Clark 0]

boy this is gonna start an uproar but I have to agree.

Agree with what? Was this even written in English? I gave up trying to find a coherent thought after sentence three.To the OP:If, as I guess, this is another anti-religion rant by the forces of moral relativism that form such a prominent part of this board, then my message to you is to shut up. Really. Just shut up. No one cares about your pseudo-intellectual pablum about the lack of God and the evils of religion. Go read some Nietzsche and leave the rest of us alone who choose to exercise some faith in something other than ourselves. You don't have to believe what people of faith believe. In fact, many people of faith died for you to have just such a right. No need to thank them, but you might take some little care to not denigrate the things they died for.Finally, for a person to come on a forum run by a person who is an avowed Christian, and then castigate that person for writing about their beliefs in their own blog, is the height of stupidity. If you don't like it or do not want to be exposed to religious content, go elsewhere.

[twinboyz 0]

I don't even know where to begin. What does Daniel living in Las Vegas have to do with anything? Are you really saying that you cannot be a Christian and live in Las Vegas? As for other religions, native americans, etc..., Jesus makes Christianity unique. No other religious teacher claims to be God incarnate. Not Moses, not Muhammed, not Buddha, not Confucius, or Lao-Tzu, only Jesus. Jesus isn't one among many men who raised himself up to God, but the one and only God who lowered himself to us. Therefore, I am confident that God somehow gives everyone a chance to know Jesus. He loved us enough to send Jesus to suffer and die for us, so I am sure He gives everyone a chance to be saved. As for science, there cannot be a conflict between God and science, because without God there is no science. He created all the galaxies. He is bigger than the universe. The universe could not have created itself, no more than a ball can begin to roll on it's own. It takes a great deal more faith to believe that we are all just random accidents, than it does to believe that there is a creator with a plan and design for the universe. As k yourself, if you were shipwrecked on an island and found a house there, would you think it just evolved by chance? Of course not, you would have to assume that someone designed the house and built it. There is design to the universe, and design suggests a designer. Furthermore, if there is no God who eternally exists, how can existence begin? If there is no God who has existence by his own nature, how can the gift of existence be passed down the chain of creatures, who borrow it from each other? If nobody has a certain book, how can others borrow it? You can't give what you don't have. As for God caring about who wins a football game or a poker tournament, I agree with you. I doubt that he does, but that is not what Daniel or anyone else is implying when they give thanks to God after a game. They are simply praising God for giving them the gifts and talents that they have. We glorify God when we use our gifts and talents to the maximum. There is no conflict between being a poker player and being a Christian. Daniel plays the game in an ethical and professional manner. He treats all players with respect based on what I have seen. I hope he continues to speak out about his faith.

[HOUSTONRAISE 0]

fluffy! get him!http://server3.pictiger.com/img/35927/pict...ting/madcat.gif

[Greentvdinner 0]

It's so interesting to hear people speaking about being good servants of "God", while living  a life completely opposite of what "God" would like, should he exist.Even Christians argue about the way God desires us to live. While we would all like to live perfect lives, even Christians are human and most of us don't claim to be perfect.  What really frightens me about your whole tirad is that I have been seeing this attitude more and more by the Liberal left, especially here in Canada. If anyone disagrees with any of their beliefs, they are branded names like bigots, idiots, uncaring etc. Daniel  is being a better person lately, which is surely responsible for success, but to say "God" brought  this about is quite a good joke.  It's a seemingly "spiritual" energy, sure, but to think DN's way  is saying that "God" is watching over poker tournaments, making sure that someone who  mentions "Him" will win the tournament, similar to pro football or basketball players claiming  a relationship with "God", since surely "He" is watching over the Super Bowl as well, to make sure the more "Godly" team wins.  No where and at no time has Daniel ever said this, that I know of. I seriously doubt he would.And too, if you actually read the bible, it sounds like such a crazy fairy tale, particularly the New Testament.  Much of this "crazy fairytale" you speak of is documented fact, corroborated by many aetheists and scientists.All these kings telling their people that "God" wished for them to slaughter other people because "God" had told him that "He" wanted them to have the other people's land. It's just like politics today, but i'm sure most people really believed that "God" had said this, so it was OK to carry out all of these insane genocides after genocides, since that what "He" wanted.  The bible: A Tale of Horrific Genocide.  Agreed! Many atrocities have been committed in the name of the God of most of the major religions. The majority of Christians today will agree that what went on was wrong but human kind doesn't need God's name to commit atrocities. Many non-Godly men have commited grand atrocities, Hitler and Idi Amin come to mind.If people are truly "God's" people, they should be spending a majority of their lives preaching about "God" in the streets, and not just mentioning "Him" in a blog occasionally and thinking this will get them into "Heaven".I believe God also would want His people to provide for their families and serve through other means. If preaching on the streets is their strength, then they should be doing this but most of us aren't cracked up for that. Besides, I remember the Hari Krishna showing up at airports and such; they were truly scary. I think the idea of scores of Christians preaching on the streets would be equally scary.Do I wish for anyone to actually do this? NO, because I'm mature enough now, and have read enough, to know that "God" is a fairy tale, a myth used to subjugate a population and commit genocide for the sake of imperialism, similar to Bush today claiming he has a strong relationship with "God" while indiscriminantly slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people around the world for the real God,  "Oil".  Wow! I am not a Bush apologist but where is your proof of him slaughtering these hundreds of thousands of people.Wake up, read about the universe, the many, MANY MILLIONS of other galaxies out there, read what science has to say about the actual age of our universe and our Earth.  If after reading, and THINKING, about these things for a long time, if you still can believe in some strange deity who allegedly cares about the outcomes of poker matches and football games, fine, there's nothing I can do for you.  But at least make the effort, becaue I'm sure you'd be surprised what you find out there with your "Mind" OPEN!Ok. Here is my open mind. Now you want me to believe the universe is the result of a "big bang" that just happened to result in planets, moons and suns forming. On one particular planet oceans and land formed, eventually plant life grew and bacteria slowly became all the thousands  of different animal life. Humans over all other animals became intelligent enough to the point we are today. And you say religion is a fairy tale.  :twisted: