Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Preface: I am neither religious, atheist, agnostic, or the follower of any other belief system.Neverfold, I appreciate your well thought out and considerate response. However, you must either have a belief system, be an atheist, or be an agnostic. As I understand the definitions of those words, you cannot be none of the above.I know that I'm nitpicking. But it's all I could think about when I was reading your post.Mike
Not true. He can simply be spiritual and thats it. He can believe in god without being part of a belief system. You dont have to be part of a group to believe what they do.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 473
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

At their best ... science and religion can co-exist. However, each much remain open to new possibilities. Either one becomes distorted when it becomes dogmatic and is closed to the open consideration of alternatives.The good scientist is always open to learn from what the next experiment will bring. Science loses its validity when it loses that openess to discovery.Religion also loses its validity when it degrades into a rigid clinging to an idea or tradition without a willingness to question -- or when it is used as justification for violence.The human mind seeks understanding ... to find order in our world and our experiences. At our best, we can use both science and spirituality to fullfil that innate drive. People raised with a sense of right and wrong also seek to live a good, honorable life.I admire Daniel for his efforts to lead the best life he can lead. He reads, he talks to people, he tries. What more can any of us do?llou

Link to post
Share on other sites
Neverfold, I appreciate your well thought out and considerate response. However, you must either have a belief system, be an atheist, or be an agnostic. As I understand the definitions of those words, you cannot be none of the above.I know that I'm nitpicking. But it's all I could think about when I was reading your post.Mike
Nu uh. You can be none of the above and all of the above at the same time.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Neverfold, I appreciate your well thought out and considerate response. However, you must either have a belief system, be an atheist, or be an agnostic. As I understand the definitions of those words, you cannot be none of the above.I know that I'm nitpicking. But it's all I could think about when I was reading your post.
Agnostic would be the closest thing, but I do not believe it's impossible to know whether or not there's a God out there, which's the definition of an agnostic, I just believe that it's up to each person to decide how their life, their universe is made up; I believe in everyone finding their own answer. Also, I believe everyone should accept anyone else's answer and not believe that their answer is the one true way of thinking.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, I believe everyone should accept anyone else's answer and not believe that their answer is the one true way of thinking.
I won't address your earlier posts where you completely mislabel and misunderstand the word "science", I'll just stick to this.Two things about it are pretty absurd.First, according to your "belief" here, as stated, you should accept it when someone kills your "heathen" family members, or flies planes into buildings or whatever the hell they do, because it may be "another true way of thinking".Absurd.Secondly, your "belief" is contradictory on it's own terms, self defeated. If you "believe everyone should accept anyone else’s "answer", then that includes people who's "answer" doesn't accept other peoples beliefs.Absurdly illogical.For someone with professed academic credentials in physics, your grasp of both science and sound logic are remarkably lacking.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Preface: I am neither religious, atheist, agnostic, or the follower of any other belief system.Neverfold, I appreciate your well thought out and considerate response. However, you must either have a belief system, be an atheist, or be an agnostic. As I understand the definitions of those words, you cannot be none of the above.I know that I'm nitpicking. But it's all I could think about when I was reading your post.Mike
Not true. He can simply be spiritual and thats it. He can believe in god without being part of a belief system. You dont have to be part of a group to believe what they do.
Very true. I guess I sort of read" not a follower of a belief system" as not a believer in God.Thanks all for the reading comprehension assistance.I guess, then, I would fit in the same category, since I don't consider myself religious, or a follower of "a belief system", but a follower of Jesus Christ.Someone earlier made the point that 2+2=4. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, it remains true. Well, much the same can be said of Jesus. If you don't believe he existed, or is who he said he was, it remains the truth nonetheless.Thanks again,Mike
Link to post
Share on other sites
Preface: I am neither religious, atheist, agnostic, or the follower of any other belief system.Neverfold, I appreciate your well thought out and considerate response. However, you must either have a belief system, be an atheist, or be an agnostic. As I understand the definitions of those words, you cannot be none of the above.I know that I'm nitpicking. But it's all I could think about when I was reading your post.Mike
Not true. He can simply be spiritual and thats it. He can believe in god without being part of a belief system. You dont have to be part of a group to believe what they do.
Very true. I guess I sort of read" not a follower of a belief system" as not a believer in God.Thanks all for the reading comprehension assistance.I guess, then, I would fit in the same category, since I don't consider myself religious, or a follower of "a belief system", but a follower of Jesus Christ.Someone earlier made the point that 2+2=4. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, it remains true. Well, much the same can be said of Jesus. If you don't believe he existed, or is who he said he was, it remains the truth nonetheless.Thanks again,Mike
2 plus 2 equals 4. That's fact and requires no faith. You need faith to believe in JC. It's totally different. I believe in the existence of God but am not a fan of organized religion. Whether you are Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Catholic or whatever religion to choose to be in, as long as you are a good person, that's all that matters.
Link to post
Share on other sites

haven't read any of the posts after the original since I despise religious discussion. Just wanted to say to the OP that Daniel merely said reading the bible made him feel better, and feeling better helps win tournaments. I'm not sure of his religious conceptions and neither are you so we can't judge him past that. Doesn't work for me, but it does for him obviously. Also, to your post in general which was teeming with anger from a life filled with pointless debates with religious people who have frustrated and never once agreed with you in the end, stop doing it. They have an answer for everything. If all else fails, they can just say that god doesn't have to follow logic. Checkmate. what can you say.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, whether you believe it or not.
is this in the Bible?? You know, that one book which some guys just wrote and say that everyone must follow????
Stop.Now.Seriously, stop it. Why must all discussions of religion boil down to this bullshit? Are people incapable of having mature conversations about difficult subjects anymore? Do we really have to belittle each other and spout off this shit?If you want to get into a serious discussion about religion, I'm all for it. Discussion harbors understanding. Understanding is what it is all about.So, please...stop it. Stop it with your arguments that will only cause people to get offended. Say something intelligent and reasoned, for crying out loud.
Thank you, Inert Grudge I am now a big fan of yours because of this. Well said. The senseless flaming by the same people everyday just gets annoying. I need to go to work, but I will post in this thread later and I wil write an entry in my blog about this very thing.
How is what I wrote a "flame??" I said that the Bible doesn't have credibility in my eyes because some guys just wrote stuff that they thought was the "word of God." How the f*ck am I to know it is the "word of God..." because they said so??? If it truly were the word of God, why doesn't he come tell me himself. Until then, I don't like the Bible. That's all I said..you know, since that is EXACTLY what we are talking about. I wasn't flaming anyone, I said I dislike the Bible. Deal with it. I didn't personally insult any single person, so shut the f*ck up about me flaming....if you want to "flame me" for "flaming" other people, do it in a thread where I actually flamed someone.
Yes, and your balanced retort further demonstrates that you are clearly in the right. Your sarcastic comments on anything and everything are truly appreciated by all, and your "dislike" of the bible is a good reason to not believe the good things that it teaches. Enjoy the crown of stupidity.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, and your balanced retort further demonstrates that you are clearly in the right. Your sarcastic comments on anything and everything are truly appreciated by all, and your "dislike" of the bible is a good reason to not believe the good things that it teaches. Enjoy the crown of stupidity.
Hehe.When I see people being as sarcastic as I would be, it makes me extremely giddy.Well played.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Neverfold, I appreciate your well thought out and considerate response. However, you must either have a belief system, be an atheist, or be an agnostic. As I understand the definitions of those words, you cannot be none of the above.I know that I'm nitpicking. But it's all I could think about when I was reading your post.
Agnostic would be the closest thing, but I do not believe it's impossible to know whether or not there's a God out there, which's the definition of an agnostic, I just believe that it's up to each person to decide how their life, their universe is made up; I believe in everyone finding their own answer. Also, I believe everyone should accept anyone else's answer and not believe that their answer is the one true way of thinking.
Gotta disagree with you there- at some point, someones had got to be right, and someone has got to wrong.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Gotta disagree with you there- at some point, someones had got to be right, and someone has got to wrong.
Yep. There is a thing called Pascal's Wager concerning this topic. I'm sure you've heard of it.It basically states that If you believe in God and you're right (ie, he does exist), then you will be eternally happy. If you don't believe in God and you're right, nothing will happen to you. If you believe in God and you're wrong, nothing will happen to you. If you don't believe in God and you're wrong, you will go to hell and be eternally unhappy.Thus, Pascal argued that it was better to believe in God, since the prospect of being right/wrong if you didn't believe in God is far worse than the prospect of being right/wrong if you do believe in God.Too bad the theory is flawed beyond belief for many reasons. I will elaborate if need be.Edit: There is actually a really ironic gambling aspect to this "wager." To put it all in another light, it is +EV to believe in God according to Pascal. Never really thought about it in that way.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always just though that at the very least it didn't hurt- doubts come into play, you deal with different things throughout life but it always just seems to make more sense to give the supreme creator the benefit of the doubt, in that what does it really hurt?

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you shuffle a deck of cards, pull a random one out face down and i tell you that ill give you $500 if you believe that it's the ace of spades, you'll be hard pressed to convince yourself that you genuinely believe it. You can say that you do. But if you dont have any good reason to believe that it is the ace of spades, you're lying to yourself.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have always just though that at the very least it didn't hurt- doubts come into play, you deal with different things throughout life but it always just seems to make more sense to give the supreme creator the benefit of the doubt, in that what does it really hurt?
I would honestly agree with that assessment, if I could logically do so. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of faith. There is just so, so, so much about the Bible/religion/God that just doesn't make rational sense to me. Again, that is just me personally, so I'm not trying to pick a fight.Also, I think the main problem with Pascal's Wager is that he doesn't tell you WHICH God/Higher Power to believe in. I mean, should I be a polytheist like the Ancient Greeks/Romans, or be a Christian? What about Jewish? How do I know which is right, since it is illogical for them to ALL be correct? Just never made sense to me.
Link to post
Share on other sites
I have always just though that at the very least it didn't hurt- doubts come into play, you deal with different things throughout life but it always just seems to make more sense to give the supreme creator the benefit of the doubt, in that what does it really hurt?
Pascal’s wager is redamndiculous.But I don't care about that right now.I just want to know if you're having a Super bowl party with strippers.-Your friendly neighborhood Spademan
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 plus 2 equals 4. That's fact and requires no faith. You need faith to believe in JC. It's totally different. I believe in the existence of God but am not a fan of organized religion. Whether you are Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Catholic or whatever religion to choose to be in, as long as you are a good person, that's all that matters.I think it's actually quite similar, actually.If I teach my four year old that 2+2=4, he will be able to repeat that, but without any real comprehension of addition. He believes it because he believes in me and trusts me, by faith, if you will. (actually, he can count quite well, so maybe he would get it. Substitute some other simple math equation in there, like say 12x12=144) Yet it is still fact.I believe that e=mc2, not because I fully understand physics, but because I believe Einstein, et al, (by faith) when they say it is true. I know that recent studies have shown the theory of relativity to be correct, but I only know that because I believe the people who did the studies and the reporters who wrote about it. It is fact.God came to earth as a man called Jesus, who died for the atonement of my sins; and I believe this by faith, because of what others have told me (written in the Bible and peoples experiences), in addition to my own experience of a relationship with Him through prayer.. It too is fact.The point I am trying to get at, is that "faith" and "fact" can be only a difference of viewpoint.My son accepts multiplication by faith now, but will see that it is fact later. It will be the same for what we believe of Jesus.And, I'm not really a fan of organized religion either. Religion gets you nowhere. All that matters is what you believe about Jesus.Sorry (kind of) if that was all a bit preachy.Mike

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have always just though that at the very least it didn't hurt- doubts come into play, you deal with different things throughout life but it always just seems to make more sense to give the supreme creator the benefit of the doubt, in that what does it really hurt?
I've got no problem with the thought that there could be a creator. What I do have a problem with is people mistakenly relating this to a book. I believe, or have faith, based on everything I've seen, read, heard and just the way I downright feel, that the bible and it's many versions are not the word of said creator.I can't see how you can tell me or anyone can tell anyone that it is. You have faith that it is, just as I have faith that it isn't. I'm don't push my faith on anyone else and I appreciate the same in return.
Link to post
Share on other sites
I have always just though that at the very least it didn't hurt- doubts come into play, you deal with different things throughout life but it always just seems to make more sense to give the supreme creator the benefit of the doubt, in that what does it really hurt?
I've got no problem with the thought that there could be a creator. What I do have a problem with is people mistakenly relating this to a book. I believe, or have faith, based on everything I've seen, read, heard and just the way I downright feel, that the bible and it's many versions are not the word of said creator.I can't see how you can tell me or anyone can tell anyone that it is. You have faith that it is, just as I have faith that it isn't. I'm don't push my faith on anyone else and I appreciate the same in return.
Amen brotha.
Link to post
Share on other sites
First, according to your "belief" here, as stated, you should accept it when someone kills your "heathen" family members, or flies planes into buildings or whatever the hell they do, because it may be "another true way of thinking".
Actually, the religious fundamentalist terrorism you talk about is completely contradictary to what I was talking about - the reason for religious conflicts is due to both believing that they are the only correct ones. Muslim terrorists kill others because they believe the way they live is morally incorrect. I have clearly stated that I am completely opposed to this. Perhaps you should take some rudimentary English classes in reading comprehension?
Link to post
Share on other sites
rofl.Seriously.rofl.
Excellent rebuttal!
None needed.It's all lain bare in the previous posts.You made no qualifications in your first statement, and it was flawed. It is precisely my "reading comprehension" that made it so obvious.It's pretty simple, and clear.I like you though, good entertainment.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...