river play with jt

[Guest Zach6668]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is CO with J:club:, T:spade:. 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (6 SB) 7:club:, 3:heart:, J:diamond: (6 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, SB calls, MP2 calls.Turn: (9 BB) 8:heart: (4 players)SB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, SB calls, MP2 calls.River: (13 BB) J:heart: (4 players)SB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero ???Ok, I know some people will say fold preflop. I think in position, it's close to either a fold or a limp when the pot will most likely be 6 handed or so.MP3 is 64/9/.33, however it is just after 11 hands, so really means little.MP2 is 62/1/.51 after 123 hands, and is an ultra fish.SB is 37/3/.32 after 60ish hands.I'm at a great table,Anyways. Who bets this river?Looking back, it seems to be an easy bet, but the whole way through I was thinking a stronger jack, or a set or some sort. Any thoughts?Thanks,ZachEDIT - just realized this was 1/2, as I was trying to slam in 600 hands to clear my bonus... I made it by 4 minutes Anyways, if the mods want to move this, go ahead.

[Actuary 3]

how can you not bet trip J's into a field of 3 fish.If MP3 would raise AJ and sometimes KJ peflop...You probbly have best J.You picked up more outs on turn.I wouldn't mind seeing you raise on the turn... but I never have balls to pull it off.You really want A/K hands to fold.

[Guest Zach6668]

how can you not bet trip J's into a field of 3 fish.If MP3 would raise AJ and sometimes KJ peflop...You probbly have best J.You picked up more outs on turn.I wouldn't mind seeing you raise on the turn... but I never have balls to pull it off.You really want A/K hands to fold.

I won't lie, I had the old check/call button clicked for some reason... (stupid multitabling), so I was suprised with the results, and most likey, this is the reason I am posting this.There is so much dead money in there, that I need to be betting this. MP3's check really confused me when I saw it, but I had the stupid button checked, so I didn't get to think about it before I acted.Just wanted to see what others think.Zach

[WestcoastCanuck 0]

Bet the river.The money you get off of MP2 and SB when you are ahead far outweighs losing 1 (or 2 to a check raise I geuss) BB if you are behind.

[Canada 0]

The flush came in the back door, so its less likely to be an issue.Bet the river. Preflop is fine. Call there all day long.

[Actuary 3]

Preflop is fine.  Call there all day long.

that too.

[screech 0]

Raise the turn!

[Actuary 3]

Raise the turn!

You picked up more outs on turn. I wouldn't mind seeing you raise on the turn... but I never have balls to pull it off. You really want A/K hands to fold

quit that now!We can't always agree!I'm the worst offender at not raising turns in real play even though I urge it in posts.

[wrto4556 0]

Raise the turn!

what happens if we get 3-bet?

[Abbaddabba 0]

We clearly have to call. There are four 9's for the straight, plus 3 tens that may be live, 2 jacks that may be live, and a few other board pairs to counterfit their possible two pair.And i cant picture folding the river for one bet, given how big the pot will be.I dont like raising the turn though.But given the action, why wouldnt you want to bet the river?You have every indication to believe that you're good, and you probably get called by tons of hands.

[AlphaOmega 0]

Raise the turn!

what happens if we get 3-bet?

We'd have to call. Then we'd probably be forced to call the river too since the pot was so big.

[princeof56k 0]

The SB and MP2 worry me. They each called 2 cold on the flop with almost no draws present (except gutshots I think), and then they called the turn. Do they have any idea what they're doing? Looks like a trap to me.

[wrto4556 0]

i dont like raising the turn because we have to call a 3-bet and by the looks of it these guys are pretty aggressive.Id definately bet the river.

[Actuary 3]

i dont like raising the turn because we have to call a 3-bet and by the looks of it these guys are pretty aggressive.

so.We have huge equity to preserve, no?We could have hands with 5 outs behind us, etc.we have lots of outsPlease explain.thanks.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Given the flop action, i think we're more often the one drawing to close to 5 outs.(far more often)

[wrto4556 0]

i dont like raising the turn because we have to call a 3-bet and by the looks of it these guys are pretty aggressive.

so.We have huge equity to preserve, no?We could have hands with 5 outs behind us, etc.we have lots of outsPlease explain.thanks.

If our hand is good enough to raise the turn we should have capped the flop. An extra 4 outs with one card to come isnt that great.

[dkelloway 0]

Do 2 things here:1) ask yourself if these players are really capable of check-raising you on the river? If not, a bet is very safe.2) pick up SSH by ed miller, david sklansky, and mason malmuth good luck

[Actuary 3]

Do 2 things here:1) ask yourself if these players are really capable of check-raising you on the river? If not, a bet is very safe.2) pick up SSH by ed miller, david sklansky, and mason malmuth good luck

do 1 thing.Know that Zach has read SSHE

[dkelloway 0]

my bad :-)

[Guest Zach6668]

Do 2 things here:1) ask yourself if these players are really capable of check-raising you on the river? If not, a bet is very safe.2) pick up SSH by ed miller, david sklansky, and mason malmuth good luck

do 1 thing.Know that Zach has read SSHE

LOL. I really wanted to let this thread die, but I had to respond to this.I'll explain my river check, was because I just assumed he was betting the river, and I had the check/call button checked. I agree that it is an absolute bet, all of the time. I was tri-tabling clearing a bonus that I needed to clear in like no time.Anyways. Villain had 73. I really thought he had a better jack or a set the whole way though, that is why I went into calldown mode.Zach

[RDigger 0]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this looks like a good place to ask...if the JT were suited, do we have enough equity to raise 3 limpers if we figure that one of the SB or BB will call? I've read that about 4 limpers in a loose passive table JTs is a raise in the CO or Button, but i never have the balls to do it?

[Guest Zach6668]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this looks like a good place to ask...if the JT were suited, do we have enough equity to raise 3 limpers if we figure that one of the SB or BB will call? I've read that about 4 limpers in a loose passive table JTs is a raise in the CO or Button, but i never have the balls to do it?

It's probably close. I've done it before.

[screech 0]

Raise the turn!

what happens if we get 3-bet?

We call and fold the river UI. It doesn't even cost us an extra BB when we get 3-bet, especially if our raise knocks out a hand that would have made a straight when we improve to top 2, or would have split the pot when we hit our straight.It's really not that disasterous with outs. What's more disasterous is if we improve to 2 pair, but let someone spike a gutshot. Or if we do have the best hand, and let someone spike a king.I don't think we get 3-bet all that often here anyway, unless villian has a set. A turn raise will likely be preceived as a lot of strength. I remember that it was rare to see someone raise the turn with TPTK at 1/2.If there weren't any players behind us, I agree that a turn raise would be bad.

[Abbaddabba 0]

We're going to be getting paid between 16:1 and 20:1 on the river.I dont think we can consider folding. Especially if the board pairs, potentially counterfeiting someones turned two pair.