ok from good from great

[Daniel38 0]

I wanted to leave a post to maybe find some guidence in the different levels of poker playinga ability. If you consider yourself a good (or great) player, what was it that made you the caliber of player that you are today? Is there a turning point in your career that you can remember that turned things around for you in the way you may view the game? Was it a really good/really bad night that you had an epiphany about your game? Was it an incredibly good book that you might have read? Obviously I know that with hand voulme comes and increase of skill, and that to keep getting better you have to keep playing and trying to become a better player every hand, but was there something specific that happend that might have changed you into the player you are today? I'm probably going to get some sarcastic remarks here, but I am geniunely intereted in what you think was the most important event that made you the poker player you are today.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Small Stakes Hold'em. Miller, Malmuth and Sklansky. I wouldn't be where I am today without it. Also, if you like Tournaments Harrington on Hold'em is an absolute must. Oh, and play thousands and thousands of hands.

[pogiolithis 0]

Nothing has taught me more about poker than losing my ass at the table. Books are great and can only get you so far. It seems every six months I have a great epiphany about poker. Really most of my skill has come from hours at the table and talking about hands with other friends.

[Longshanks 0]

playing is the best, however, i just starting freeloading reading form barnds and noble and Small Stakes Hold Em, I have read like the first 100 pages and it has helped immensely, I was a primarily no limit player but my game tanked so i started over and this has hlped a ton

[PrtyPSux 0]

Small Stakes Hold'em. Miller, Malmuth and Sklansky. I wouldn't be where I am today without it. Also, if you like Tournaments Harrington on Hold'em is an absolute must. .

Books might make you a winning player, they wont make you a very good or great player. I think the OP wants to know what takes you from fundamentals/booksmarts, to actually being a GOOD player. I find it funny that you (op) talked about an "epiphany" because thats kinda what happened to me, I remember about 2 months ago I was reading the Stu Ungar book, and it had a quote that really struck a chord with me "If you cant trust your instinct, you got no chance at the table". After I read that, I talked to a great player that I know, and we talked about instinct. He told me instinct is what seperates a good player from a world class player, you cant teach it, you gotta know you have good reads and feel for the game and you gotta be able to go with it. You should know if your reads are good, once you know that, the hard part is to actually trust yourself and go with your reads. Once I realized this, my game (especially my NL tourney game) just transformed completely. I started making final tables like crazy and making moves that I would have never imagined making before.

[gaddyjr 0]

Books, DVD's, etc. can be a great help, but there is no substitute for experience. Example: as a beginner, every book will tell you that AA is not that great of a hand, but you will never fold it post-flop until you have had it cracked 5+ times.

[Petoria 0]

Think of every session you play as a day at school. You should learn something new everytime you play. I feel like I'm infinitely better than I was 3 months ago, bc I think about every play I make. There was a time when I let poker just become like clockwork. Going through the motions, grinding out a winning session, and moving on to the next day. During this time, I dont feel like I improved, then I hit a bad streak and started reexamining anything I do. The bad streaks have made me a better player more than the good stretches have made me a better player.

[Suited_Up 2]

Think of every session you play as a day at school. You should learn something new everytime you play. I feel like I'm infinitely better than I was 3 months ago, bc I think about every play I make. There was a time when I let poker just become like clockwork. Going through the motions, grinding out a winning session, and moving on to the next day. During this time, I dont feel like I improved, then I hit a bad streak and started reexamining anything I do. The bad streaks have made me a better player more than the good stretches have made me a better player.

Good post, as was PartyPSux's.

[ThatPkrGuy 0]

TTOP was my major turning point in poker.I had always known how to play poker and what was the right play in given situations based on odds and whatnot. But i never THOUGHT about poker in the way that i do now when i'm playing at the table. And i would say that i owe this to The Thoery of Poker.

[theredpill99 0]

I think my turning point was not reading a book but buying in for $100 at the $1/2 NL game and getting my ass kicked. I didn't go back for months but I understood why I lost.

[Kangaroo 0]

watching a few fcpers on full tilt helped my tournament game no end, i was playing way too many starting hands.

[Fullhouse7 0]

These have been posted b4, but here were my epiphanies:Reading the standard/classic books on poker, reading Cardplayer, and various blogs like DN, zeejustin's, and others in regards to strategy.At a full tbl (SNG,MTT, etc.), playing far fewer hands (over the long run this turns to approx. 15% of hands dealt).Play various forms of poker to keep the learning curve from going flat by only playing 1 type game.Play aggressively shortstacked, short tbled, heads-up.Know the math--outs, equity, pot odds, implied odds, reverse pot odds.Keep notes on players and utilize tracking software so that I can utilize a system consistently and with logic behind my decisions.Obviously, utilize chip count, positioning, betting patterns, and bankroll mgmt.Here is where the "art" of poker separates the great from good/mediocre players:Have a group of people where you can seriously analyze your play/hands.The zen/"in the zone"/"gut instinct" is, IMHO, innate but can be learned, to varying degrees of success, by playing alot of hands, utilizing any/all forms of tells (and yes, there are tells in online poker), and utilizing your "databank" of previous situations so that you can justify your actions in the heat of the moment.Fullhouse7

[Wingmaster05 0]

These have been posted b4, but here were my epiphanies:Reading the standard/classic books on poker, reading Cardplayer, and various blogs like DN, zeejustin's, and others in regards to strategy.At a full tbl (SNG,MTT, etc.), playing far fewer hands (over the long run this turns to approx. 15% of hands dealt).Play various forms of poker to keep the learning curve from going flat by only playing 1 type game.Play aggressively shortstacked, short tbled, heads-up.Know the math--outs, equity, pot odds, implied odds, reverse pot odds.Keep notes on players and utilize tracking software so that I can utilize a system consistently and with logic behind my decisions.Obviously, utilize chip count, positioning, betting patterns, and bankroll mgmt.Here is where the "art" of poker separates the great from good/mediocre players:Have a group of people where you can seriously analyze your play/hands.The zen/"in the zone"/"gut instinct" is, IMHO, innate but can be learned, to varying degrees of success, by playing alot of hands, utilizing any/all forms of tells (and yes, there are tells in online poker), and utilizing your "databank" of previous situations so that you can justify your actions in the heat of the moment.Fullhouse7

Nice post, but when you talk about online tells, I hope you're referring to betting patterns and probabilities of hand holdings. Unless your against god awful players, using the amount of time a player takes to act is not very accurate because many things affect this time.

[acesfull333 0]

I think 'epiphany' is a great way to describe it...I've had several of those moments... where when it hits you, you say, "Holy crud! I'm such a donk!!!!" That's generally when I'm able to step up a level, when I have one of those moments because it means I've improved my game a lot (at least in one area).

[aces ride 0]

Losing moneyvia bad bankroll management followed by HOH I and II.

[greenchris 0]

Living in Los Angeles, I used to play a lot more live than online. Then I discovered Poker Tracker and that has absolutely done wonders for my game. Now I play mostly online, about 2K hands per week, and visit the local B&M's about once a week. Having statistics to back up my "Gut feeling"/instincts has made me a lot of money, and then developing a sense of trust in my instincts has probably been the largest contributor to my success.

[Kid DynOmite 0]

I think 'epiphany' is a great way to describe it...I've had several of those moments... where when it hits you, you say, "Holy crud! I'm such a donk!!!!" That's generally when I'm able to step up a level, when I have one of those moments because it means I've improved my game a lot (at least in one area).

Absolutely. Look, if you read and play lots of hands and study the game and strategy then that will take you to the point of being a winning player. If you want to be very good or great, then you need to develop balls... now that being said my most recent epiphany was the following: it is MUCH easier to lose your money than to win it... some dude said that and he is absolutely right. When you play unfocused, your roll will take hits. You must play focused to give yourself a shot to have a winning session, then allow variance to decide when you win. And please please please do not play outside of your bankroll. If you have 1000 dollars, do not sit down with 200 in a 1-2 nlhe game. I did this a while back, flopped top two (8 and 10s lol) and ended up getting all my money in on the flop. turn A river A, guy turns over AK! sure it was good play over the long run, but my roll shrunk by 20% just like that. If you love the grind then play this game a lot lot lot. if not, then just have fun with it.

[ForKeeps 0]

Small Stakes Hold'em. Miller, Malmuth and Sklansky. I wouldn't be where I am today without it. Also, if you like Tournaments Harrington on Hold'em is an absolute must. .

Books might make you a winning player, they wont make you a very good or great player. I think the OP wants to know what takes you from fundamentals/booksmarts, to actually being a GOOD player. I find it funny that you (op) talked about an "epiphany" because thats kinda what happened to me, I remember about 2 months ago I was reading the Stu Ungar book, and it had a quote that really struck a chord with me "If you cant trust your instinct, you got no chance at the table". After I read that, I talked to a great player that I know, and we talked about instinct. He told me instinct is what seperates a good player from a world class player, you cant teach it, you gotta know you have good reads and feel for the game and you gotta be able to go with it. You should know if your reads are good, once you know that, the hard part is to actually trust yourself and go with your reads. Once I realized this, my game (especially my NL tourney game) just transformed completely. I started making final tables like crazy and making moves that I would have never imagined making before.

Same happened to me. This forum has helped a lot, but reading Gordon's book helped me immensley, in that it was a great peptalk for my game, not necessarily b/c of the strategy. I often think back to some quotes of his when I feel like I'm slipping at the table, and I'm so up this month after reading that book it's ridiculous.

[Mercury69 3]

I'm reading books and playing thousands of hands. I've been at it for about 4 months now. I've cahsed out enough to pay down some bills and such and even won 1st place in a $20 rebuy tourney. Where am i now? Playing on FCP with a bankroll of less than $100. I consider myself to be a low intermediate player. I need lots more hands under my belt, I need to read more and I need to resolve the dilemma between being intuitive/creative and scientific/mathematical. In the long run, I think I'll be a very good, if not excellent, poker player, but I'm a long way from feeling like I'm there.That's the two cents i can spare.

[Simpleton 0]

My cats breath smells like cat food.

[FileError404 0]

My biggest improvements always came after I played against great players. You'll see things that opens up a whole new level of thinking. It also helps to take them to dinner afterwards and suck as much info out of them as possible.

[suicideking 0]

My cats breath smells like cat food.

One thread is enough fool. To the OP, nothing beats experience. I think my biggest turning point was when I came to realize that just because I have a monster hand, does not mean someone else doesn't have me beat. For example, I would be the BB with A6 off. Flop comes AA3. Opponent bets into me, i call. Turn x. Bet call. River x. Bet, I would think, I have trip aces, I can't lose. So I would raise, and they would just call me. They of course would have AK and I would be outkicked. The important question to ask in that situation is what hands can I beat, will actually pay me off here? It comes with experience.