run the turn and river twice?

[bcook823 0]

I was watching Live at the Bike last night, and an interesting hand came up. Jean Robert Bellande has KK in early position, and makes a standard raise. Its folded around to the small blind where the guy (I forget his name) has ATo. The game is 50/100 NLHE. The small blind has about 1200 in front of him, JRB has him covered. The small blind goes all in, and JRB calls.The flop comes TQ4 rainbow and before the dealer flips up the turn, JRB says "hold up, you want to run it twice from here?" the other guy says "I'll run it 3 times" JRB says OK.Now I know in cash games this is a fairly common practice, in an effort to balance out some of the luck. So for those not familiar they basically have split the pot into three seperate hands. The first two JRB stays ahead, and the last an ace comes on the river. So JRB gets 2/3 of the pot. All bankroll considerations being equal, when do you offer or accept?In this case he has 20% to win, and won 33% of the pot. This seems like a bad deal for JRB.

[76clubs 0]

excellent laydown boys

[Rude Dog 0]

I never understood "run it twice". Can somebody explain it for me?

[bdc30 0]

I know it's hard to do, but I'd love to see this option online when Heads up with 2 guys all in.

[champsox 0]

In a cash game, in order to decrease variance and the luck factor, if two players are in a race situation, they may decide to play the board out multiple times. The dealer deals out the flop turn and river just like normal, but then does it again. If you win one of the two boards you get half the pot, if you win them both you take it all.

[SuperJon 175]

I only do it if I'm an underdog.

[bcook823 0]

excellent laydown boys

He wasn't very colorful last night, he must really ham it up for TV. He did play well though.

[pokerplayer24 0]

I was watching Live at the Bike last night, and an interesting hand came up. Jean Robert Bellande has KK in early position, and makes a standard raise. Its folded around to the small blind where the guy (I forget his name) has ATo. The game is 50/100 NLHE. The small blind has about 1200 in front of him, JRB has him covered. The small blind goes all in, and JRB calls.The flop comes TQ4 rainbow and before the dealer flips up the turn, JRB says "hold up, you want to run it twice from here?" the other guy says "I'll run it 3 times" JRB says OK.Now I know in cash games this is a fairly common practice, in an effort to balance out some of the luck. So for those not familiar they basically have split the pot into three seperate hands. The first two JRB stays ahead, and the last an ace comes on the river. So JRB gets 2/3 of the pot. All bankroll considerations being equal, when do you offer or accept?In this case he has 20% to win, and won 33% of the pot. This seems like a bad deal for JRB.

I am willing to do it whenever my opponent has 5 outs or more and the pot is big. It limits variance and really doesnt take away from the value of your hands whatsoever. Kind of like I would love to tell opponents lets run the turn and river 1k times. And i'd end up just taking 80% of the pot whenever i was 80% to win.

[Rude Dog 0]

Thanks, Champsox.At what point in the hand is the decision made? Anytime?

[BigDawgBuuck 0]

I'd rather spend the next year in a Nazi POW camp than watch JRB on the WSOP Circuit again...

[bcook823 0]

Thanks, Champsox.At what point in the hand is the decision made? Anytime?

Anytime is right. If one person is all in, they may agree to run the whole flop twice, three times, whatever. They may wait and run the turn and river more than once. You may wait until the river and run it by itself more than once.

[tyfgine 0]

I heard JRB is in the running for Biggest Douche in the Universe this year.

[bcook823 0]

There are some people in this forum that are NLHE specialist. I am not one of them. I think running the cards more than once to balance out the variance is something worthy of discussion. The mathmatical expectation doesn't change if you run it more than once. So if you aren't worried about bankroll hits, what should you consider when accepting, offering, negotiating something like this. I copied this directly from DNs blog to add another prospective.As for the poker, that went extremely well today too. I had my best day at the table, but I still feel like I played my best poker when I lost on the first day. I played "ok" today, but I let Jennifer bluff me out of one pot and then made a "play" against Antonio that went like this:Phil raised to $3200 and I called from the cut off seat with K-10 of diamonds. Antonio made it $12,000 on the button and Phil folded. I didn't think Antonio had to be all that strong before the flop, so I decided to take a flop with him and called.The flop came Qs 10c 6s. I checked to Antonio who considered betting. I started yapping at him, 'You are betting $15,000 right? I know that's what you are betting. I don't know what I'm doing yet, I've got a little of this and a little of that."Antonio replied, "So what are you gonna do if I bet?" "I dunno, first thing I'll do is ask you how much you have left. Then I'll think for a minute, hum and haw, and maybe call, fold, or who knows I might even stick the whole shebang in there!" I said.Finally, Antonio said, "All right," and threw $15,000 in cash into the pot. I sensed fear in his bet. I didn't think he could beat a Q. He might have A-K, JJ, or even a hand like 88 or 99. I counted him down and he had close to $60,000 left.After some hesitation, I threw out two bundles of $50,000 bricks to the center and heard Antonio gasp. Well, that was a good sign. I pumped my fist a little bit and wiped my brow with a "phew." Then Antonio started talking, "Whaddya got there kid, A-10? Either that or K-Q, it would be sick if you have that K-Q."From his dialogue it became obvious that he must have had JJ, "Jacks kiddo? I get it, you must have JJ right?" I said.Antonio thought, and thought, and finally looked like he was about to fold. Then I blew it, I blew it big time. For some silly reason I said, "When you fold I'll show you a card," or some nonsense like that.Antonio looked right at me and knew right away, "I call it," he said. "Doh! I gave that one away. I had you folding too, man that was dumb," I said. It was a great call. I felt like since Antonio lost the first big pot and was feeling the heat that I could push him around a little bit. It might have worked if I didn't stick my foot in my mouth!That's not the end of the tale, however. The turn came a 2 and I said to Antonio, "You wanna run the river twice?" "No man, just once, let's do it." he replied.The river, was a... King! Yikes, I actually felt bad for him. He played the hand so well and really didn't deserve that at all. He played two monster pots perfectly and was stuck pretty good after both went down. I empathized with him, because that's a lot like how my first day went.

[bcook823 0]

There are some people in this forum that are NLHE specialist. I am not one of them. I think running the cards more than once to balance out the variance is something worthy of discussion. The mathmatical expectation doesn't change if you run it more than once. So if you aren't worried about bankroll hits, what should you consider when accepting, offering, negotiating something like this. I copied this directly from DNs blog to add another prospective.As for the poker, that went extremely well today too. I had my best day at the table, but I still feel like I played my best poker when I lost on the first day. I played "ok" today, but I let Jennifer bluff me out of one pot and then made a "play" against Antonio that went like this:Phil raised to $3200 and I called from the cut off seat with K-10 of diamonds. Antonio made it $12,000 on the button and Phil folded. I didn't think Antonio had to be all that strong before the flop, so I decided to take a flop with him and called.The flop came Qs 10c 6s. I checked to Antonio who considered betting. I started yapping at him, 'You are betting $15,000 right? I know that's what you are betting. I don't know what I'm doing yet, I've got a little of this and a little of that."Antonio replied, "So what are you gonna do if I bet?" "I dunno, first thing I'll do is ask you how much you have left. Then I'll think for a minute, hum and haw, and maybe call, fold, or who knows I might even stick the whole shebang in there!" I said.Finally, Antonio said, "All right," and threw $15,000 in cash into the pot. I sensed fear in his bet. I didn't think he could beat a Q. He might have A-K, JJ, or even a hand like 88 or 99. I counted him down and he had close to $60,000 left.After some hesitation, I threw out two bundles of $50,000 bricks to the center and heard Antonio gasp. Well, that was a good sign. I pumped my fist a little bit and wiped my brow with a "phew." Then Antonio started talking, "Whaddya got there kid, A-10? Either that or K-Q, it would be sick if you have that K-Q."From his dialogue it became obvious that he must have had JJ, "Jacks kiddo? I get it, you must have JJ right?" I said.Antonio thought, and thought, and finally looked like he was about to fold. Then I blew it, I blew it big time. For some silly reason I said, "When you fold I'll show you a card," or some nonsense like that.Antonio looked right at me and knew right away, "I call it," he said. "Doh! I gave that one away. I had you folding too, man that was dumb," I said. It was a great call. I felt like since Antonio lost the first big pot and was feeling the heat that I could push him around a little bit. It might have worked if I didn't stick my foot in my mouth!That's not the end of the tale, however. The turn came a 2 and I said to Antonio, "You wanna run the river twice?" "No man, just once, let's do it." he replied.The river, was a... King! Yikes, I actually felt bad for him. He played the hand so well and really didn't deserve that at all. He played two monster pots perfectly and was stuck pretty good after both went down. I empathized with him, because that's a lot like how my first day went.

[snowmannn 0]

While playing in his weekly game with the Devil, Chuck Norris decided to run the river twice. He got five of a kind both times.

[Guest]

TL/DRtoo long , didnt read

[snowmannn 0]

TL/DRtoo long , didnt read

ST/FU

[ricker 0]

just so I'm clear, when they run the turn and river twice, do they shuffle the deck with that new board? Or does it go with the board reading q 10 4, JRB says, do you want to run it twice? The the dealer burns and turns, burns and throws the river down, burns again for a new turn and burns and throws the river down?Or am I not getting it?

[DaBruins 0]

just so I'm clear, when they run the turn and river twice, do they shuffle the deck with that new board?  Or does it go with the board reading q 10 4, JRB says, do you want to run it twice?  The the dealer burns and turns, burns and throws the river down, burns again for a new turn and burns and throws the river down?Or am I not getting it?

the latter is correct. There is no shuffling when running it 2, 3, 4, x times. So it can change expectations a little bit.

[_Great_Dane_ 0]

I was watching Live at the Bike last night, and an interesting hand came up. Jean Robert Bellande has KK in early position, and makes a standard raise. Its folded around to the small blind where the guy (I forget his name) has ATo. The game is 50/100 NLHE. The small blind has about 1200 in front of him, JRB has him covered. The small blind goes all in, and JRB calls.The flop comes TQ4 rainbow and before the dealer flips up the turn, JRB says "hold up, you want to run it twice from here?" the other guy says "I'll run it 3 times" JRB says OK.Now I know in cash games this is a fairly common practice, in an effort to balance out some of the luck. So for those not familiar they basically have split the pot into three seperate hands. The first two JRB stays ahead, and the last an ace comes on the river. So JRB gets 2/3 of the pot.  All bankroll considerations being equal, when do you offer or accept?In this case he has 20% to win, and won 33% of the pot. This seems like a bad deal for JRB.

http://www.liveatthebike.com/as_seen_on_l@...l@tb!/index.php