Dratj 0 Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I hate stocks. That is all.me too. getting my ass whooped lately. Holding Rim at 119.18. Can. exchange obv.V at 80.54nt at 7.75 Can.and Potash One at 5.18. Can. of course everything is down. I still have faith that V, Rim are solid stocks. Potash One is a bit of a flier but still solid. nt is a huge dog but I thought at 7.75 it's a good buy. a;lskjf;lsdajk;lgkja;gjklsasg Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I sold out of the Rydex 2x Dollar Strengtheing Fund. Not much of a loss since I got in.Doesn't look like rates are going up near future. Also, Cramer got me pumped today, forget the Stop Loss orders, I need to remember why I'm in and not be so "eager" to lock in losses.ah... this indv stock stuff, is over my head, honestly and time to limit holdingsWithout the benefit of Dollar Cost Averaging and thinknig so shortterm, it's leading to panic decisions for mepart and parcel of this will be backing out of this thread, I can't be looknig at my portfolio all day at work.good luck Link to post Share on other sites
Yoda 1 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I sold out of the Rydex 2x Dollar Strengtheing Fund. Not much of a loss since I got in.Doesn't look like rates are going up near future. Also, Cramer got me pumped today, forget the Stop Loss orders, I need to remember why I'm in and not be so "eager" to lock in losses.ah... this indv stock stuff, is over my head, honestly and time to limit holdingsWithout the benefit of Dollar Cost Averaging and thinknig so shortterm, it's leading to panic decisions for mepart and parcel of this will be backing out of this thread, I can't be looknig at my portfolio all day at work.good luckThat's like an "I quit poker for good" thread. You'll be back! Panic decisions were my biggest flaw early on. It's very easy to buy on the high and sell on the low if you don't stand by your reasoning and wait it out sometimes. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 That's like an "I quit poker for good" thread. You'll be back! Panic decisions were my biggest flaw early on. It's very easy to buy on the high and sell on the low if you don't stand by your reasoning and wait it out sometimes.oh.. eh.. I..uh.. didn't mean to imply I was quitting this thread; but only toning down the intensity (or trying to) with which I "follow" my returns.It's silly. And I know that, to worry about daily gyrations. I also realize I have little idea why a stock like CRDN drops. It's like there is a conspiracy to finds out where the money is going to pump, and you hope to be there. But then I sound like a grassy knoll conspiracy bafoon.Seriously, I coud discuss Stocks and watch MMA for the rest of my life and die happy. I'm a simple man Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 oh.. eh.. I..uh.. didn't mean to imply I was quitting this thread; but only toning down the intensity (or trying to) with which I "follow" my returns.It's silly. And I know that, to worry about daily gyrations. I also realize I have little idea why a stock like CRDN drops. It's like there is a conspiracy to finds out where the money is going to pump, and you hope to be there. But then I sound like a grassy knoll conspiracy bafoon.Seriously, I coud discuss Stocks and watch MMA for the rest of my life and die happy. I'm a simple manI kinda wish I could only see the market updates a few times a day. Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 uh fannie and freddie in deep shit, fed to the rescue again. let's just print more money!!! it'll all be ok! Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Seriously, I coud discuss Stocks and watch MMA for the rest of my life and die happy. I'm a simple manNot sure why that made me laugh... I could do half of that and be happy.I'm in mutuals and don't bother with it. When the market drops...I'm buying more at a lower price. I guess it really matters when you get about 5 years away from retiring. MMA is the best thing on TV these days! Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 I go on vacation for a week and a half, and return to find all my losses on treasuries wiped away and turned to slight gains. Sweet. Glad I've been out of stocks since end of May!Back a few months ago when Yoda was still talking up ITB above 20, I said it would be low to mid teens by June. Well... it was only 16ish start of June, but ended June at 14 and closed today at 13.22. Wondering if he is still holding Monsanto. Off 18% from recent highs. Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 Posted July 7, 2008 Share Posted July 7, 2008 Somewhere Wrongway is happy, probably in a dark corner.Last week I was on vacation. Mega cheap Royal Caribbean cruise out of Los Angeles.San Diego, Catalina and Ensanada. Tuesday, July 1? I was in San Diego. I toured the Midway, but most of the day was spent lounging by the pool and eating.... Link to post Share on other sites
Janfor99 0 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Last week I was on vacation. Mega cheap Royal Caribbean cruise out of Los Angeles.San Diego, Catalina and Ensanada. Tuesday, July 1? I was in San Diego. I toured the Midway, but most of the day was spent lounging by the pool and eating....Vacation!!!!!!!! But...aren't you the one upside down on McMortgage and deep into credit card debt hell???? Vacation...but I thought financial armaggedon is coming? Debt reduction is a goot thing right now Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I hate the stock market. I hate bank of america and citibank. I hate visa. I am full of financial hate.when does the big bounce back day happen? I am really hoping we get one of those big 300pt + days this week..... Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I hate the stock market. I hate bank of america and citibank. I hate visa. I am full of financial hate.when does the big bounce back day happen? I am really hoping we get one of those big 300pt + days this week.....i'd expect stocks to be up more than they are today with bernanke discussing his willingness to bail everybody out in the name of stability and crude getting killed. people will start buying financials for value around here. Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Vacation!!!!!!!! But...aren't you the one upside down on McMortgage and deep into credit card debt hell???? Vacation...but I thought financial armaggedon is coming? Debt reduction is a goot thing right now Someone is not paying attention.I've long said I see two possible courses of action and that I am not yet sure which path we will take, though it is becoming more clear by the day.The obvious portion of the future:Home foreclosures over the next 5 or so years will be about 10 million, with total losses well in excess of $2 trillion. Commercial property will suffer similar devistation.A large number of large financial institutions will collapse, including Freddie and Fannie. FDIC will quickly burn through the rescue fund.What is less clear is what the government will do. 1) Let losses be passed along to stock and bond holders? This will trigger a greater depression.2) Just print the money needed to ensure losses are not passed along, triggering hyper-stagflation and killing the value of the dollar.Bernanke's speach this morning indicates he wants us to take path 2. Have the government take receivership of any large securities company that goes insolvant, and provide a clean liquidation of assets while ensuring that stock and bond holders are not wiped out.Hyper-infaltion here we come!!!!In that case, debt is good! Spend it while it still buys something! Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 i'd expect stocks to be up more than they are today with bernanke discussing his willingness to bail everybody out in the name of stability and crude getting killed. people will start buying financials for value around here.I'm shocked they didn't crash on the mear hint that it is possible that large securities companies could be heading for insolvancy! I turned the speah on half-way through, so missed the part about continuing to swap toilet-paper for t-bills for the foreseeable future. I turned it on when he was talking about government liquidation of large securities companies... I gasped. How could he even suggest that additional financial corporations could possibly get into trouble?Meanwhile, back on Main Street... Gas is over $4 a gallon, house prices continie to plummet as home sales remain suck, unemployment trend is up, and everything is olay as long as the credit card still has room on it....Dimon (CEO of JP Morgan Chase) says maybe it wasn't a good idea to give 100% LTV loans on houses after prices had nearly doubled in less than 5 years. Hmmmmmmm YOU THINK? And why didn't you say this 5 years ago when you were reaping huge profits packaging these 100% LTV toxic loans backed by fake-appraisals and fraudulant loan applications, into MBSs that you were selling to pension funds, insurance companies and bond funds? Hmmmm?????? Link to post Share on other sites
Quacktastic 106 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'm shocked they didn't crash on the mear hint that it is possible that large securities companies could be heading for insolvancy! I turned the speah on half-way through, so missed the part about continuing to swap toilet-paper for t-bills for the foreseeable future. I turned it on when he was talking about government liquidation of large securities companies... I gasped. How could he even suggest that additional financial corporations could possibly get into trouble?Meanwhile, back on Main Street... Gas is over $4 a gallon, house prices continie to plummet as home sales remain suck, unemployment trend is up, and everything is olay as long as the credit card still has room on it....Dimon (CEO of JP Morgan Chase) says maybe it wasn't a good idea to give 100% LTV loans on houses after prices had nearly doubled in less than 5 years. Hmmmmmmm YOU THINK? And why didn't you say this 5 years ago when you were reaping huge profits packaging these 100% LTV toxic loans backed by fake-appraisals and fraudulant loan applications, into MBSs that you were selling to pension funds, insurance companies and bond funds? Hmmmm?????? Maybe because they were reaping huge profits??? Link to post Share on other sites
mk 11 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I'm shocked they didn't crashu could probably just start and end every post of yours in this thread like this imo Link to post Share on other sites
Piddle Duck 0 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Maybe because they were reaping huge profits???Quack Link to post Share on other sites
Dratj 0 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Hi yoda, what's been going on?I've been losing money the last week. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 stumbled across this from Mark CubanMy sentiment is leaning more this way - more in that I was totally in the other camp as late as 3 months agohttp://www.blogmaverick.com/2006/01/03/the...is-for-suckers/Excerpt:Ive said it before, a stock that doesnt pay dividends is valued like a baseball card. Just whatever you can sell it for. The concept that you own "your share" of the company is a joke. You are completely at the whim of the CEO and board who will dilute you on a daily basis with stock options, then try to buy back stock to cover it up and push up the price, rewarding the shareholders who get out, rather than those that continue to hold the shares. Meaning you......The stockmarket used to be about investing capital in companies that came public or did secondary offerings. That money was used to create amazing businesses and return dividends back to people who truly were investors. There once was a day where most companies paid dividends higher than the interest rates on their bonds. Why ? Because stocks are inherently more risky. If a company goes belly up, bondholders collect first, shareholders usually last. People could buy and hold stocks, and get paid real cash money for being a shareholder in the company at rates far higher than the divident yields we see today. If the company did well, the dividends went up. Investors who held, actually got all their money back in dividends at some point and the rest was gravy. The good ole days.But that changed when mutual funds came along and started marketing the concept of growth as a way to attract investors.Its not inconceivable that the old mindset could comeback. That a new market of stocks could be created where companies didnt continuously dilute shareholders by issuing stock and options to themselves. Where earnings were earned for the same reason they are in private companies, to not only fund growth, but also provide cash back to investors. Now if that market existed today. Where I could buy 100 shares of stock, and even if it represented just 1/100000 of ownership in the company, I could have confidence that year after year, I would still own 1/100000th of that company, and if that company generated earnings , I would have at least some of that money returned to me. Well then, that wouldnt be a ponzi scheme. That would be a true market of stocks, and I would be happy to recommend to anyone to be careful, but buying stocks in that market could be something worth considering if your appetite for risk canhandle it.****************Just the other day, I was trying to explain to my wife the "aha moment" I had concerning the differnce between actually owning a fraction of a company and owning the stock. Link to post Share on other sites
Janfor99 0 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Someone is not paying attention.I've long said I see two possible courses of action and that I am not yet sure which path we will take, though it is becoming more clear by the day.The obvious portion of the future:Home foreclosures over the next 5 or so years will be about 10 million, with total losses well in excess of $2 trillion. Commercial property will suffer similar devistation.A large number of large financial institutions will collapse, including Freddie and Fannie. FDIC will quickly burn through the rescue fund.What is less clear is what the government will do. 1) Let losses be passed along to stock and bond holders? This will trigger a greater depression.2) Just print the money needed to ensure losses are not passed along, triggering hyper-stagflation and killing the value of the dollar.Bernanke's speach this morning indicates he wants us to take path 2. Have the government take receivership of any large securities company that goes insolvant, and provide a clean liquidation of assets while ensuring that stock and bond holders are not wiped out.Hyper-infaltion here we come!!!!In that case, debt is good! Spend it while it still buys something!Inflation, disinflation, DEFLATION, stagflation, hyperinflation, re-flation...LOL in any 'flation'...I'll take little to no debt over deep in debt anytime Link to post Share on other sites
Yoda 1 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Hi yoda, what's been going on?I've been losing money the last week.Been pretty much hanging tight - I bought back into MA at 250. Still holding the RIMM. Bought more Oil Services ETF on the recent dip. Sold out of my copper stock TGB at 5.20 for big profit and now contemplating getting back in at 4.50. I don't wanna buy much else right now cause i'm still unsure of this market. Just dodging and weaving! Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 stumbled across this from Mark CubanMy sentiment is leaning more this way - more in that I was totally in the other camp as late as 3 months agohttp://www.blogmaverick.com/2006/01/03/the...is-for-suckers/Excerpt:Ive said it before, a stock that doesnt pay dividends is valued like a baseball card. Just whatever you can sell it for. The concept that you own "your share" of the company is a joke. You are completely at the whim of the CEO and board who will dilute you on a daily basis with stock options, then try to buy back stock to cover it up and push up the price, rewarding the shareholders who get out, rather than those that continue to hold the shares. Meaning you......The stockmarket used to be about investing capital in companies that came public or did secondary offerings. That money was used to create amazing businesses and return dividends back to people who truly were investors. There once was a day where most companies paid dividends higher than the interest rates on their bonds. Why ? Because stocks are inherently more risky. If a company goes belly up, bondholders collect first, shareholders usually last. People could buy and hold stocks, and get paid real cash money for being a shareholder in the company at rates far higher than the divident yields we see today. If the company did well, the dividends went up. Investors who held, actually got all their money back in dividends at some point and the rest was gravy. The good ole days.But that changed when mutual funds came along and started marketing the concept of growth as a way to attract investors.Its not inconceivable that the old mindset could comeback. That a new market of stocks could be created where companies didnt continuously dilute shareholders by issuing stock and options to themselves. Where earnings were earned for the same reason they are in private companies, to not only fund growth, but also provide cash back to investors. Now if that market existed today. Where I could buy 100 shares of stock, and even if it represented just 1/100000 of ownership in the company, I could have confidence that year after year, I would still own 1/100000th of that company, and if that company generated earnings , I would have at least some of that money returned to me. Well then, that wouldnt be a ponzi scheme. That would be a true market of stocks, and I would be happy to recommend to anyone to be careful, but buying stocks in that market could be something worth considering if your appetite for risk canhandle it.****************Just the other day, I was trying to explain to my wife the "aha moment" I had concerning the differnce between actually owning a fraction of a company and owning the stock.Cuban is very intelligent, and I agree with some of the sentiment here, but at the same time he is a little off base.1st. What is he talking about with the old days? When he was negative 80 years old? Mutual Funds have been around since 1934. I personally own one of the very first Mutual Funds - AIVSX2nd There is a definite difference in owning a public stock and shares in a private company, and that is liquidity. If you do not like what the board or CEO is doing with a public compnay, you can sell it, usually immediately. Private offerings are a much higher risk/reward and provide little to no liquidity.3rd. I would like to see a list of companies that had a dividen yield between 7-10% over an extended period of time. Until I see this I call half B.S., Some companies did this, most have not. Dividends are typically paid on companies that are out of their growth cycle and into their stability/earnings cycle, Microsoft being the best current example of this. And don't let him fool you, Dividends tax laws are constantly changing, the Board and CEO's are almost always the largest shareholders, so when their is a dividend, they are paying themselves too, and a lot of times you see larger dividends is when the dividend taxes are at there lowest.4th. If stock paid a higher rate of return + a higher yield than bonds for the same company, you would not have a very easy time selling those bonds on the public market. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 EL,I'm probably caught up in short shortterm gyrations and having trouble being convincd that Stock Price is correlated to Discounted Futre CashFlows, and not inflows/outflows.. i.e. momentum. Link to post Share on other sites
owise1 0 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 RE the comments on dividends above. I was just looking at BAC and their dividend yield is around 11%. Now, for this stock, I am not a short term trader and would be buying it primarily for its dividend. I also heard on TV today that the CEO is not planning to cut the dividend or raise more capital. What do you all think? (especially EG & Actuary)You can search and find companies that have paid dividends every quarter for 10, 20, 30 or 40+ years and BAC is in their somewhere. (Colgate Palmolive has increased its annual dividend payments for over 45 years)dividend growth bloghttp://www.dripinvesting.org/ Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 RE the comments on dividends above. I was just looking at BAC and their dividend yield is around 11%. Now, for this stock, I am not a short term trader and would be buying it primarily for its dividend. I also heard on TV today that the CEO is not planning to cut the dividend or raise more capital. What do you all think? (especially EG & Actuary)You can search and find companies that have paid dividends every quarter for 10, 20, 30 or 40+ years and BAC is in their somewhere. (Colgate Palmolive has increased its annual dividend payments for over 45 years)dividend growth bloghttp://www.dripinvesting.org/ cool. I have no opinion, really. No idea. Anything I say would just be guess, totally.I have interest in this stuff; but have not the time or will to really leanr all I shouldIt's just nuts now the "value" that some stocks are selling. Market Cap to Enteprose Value rations, for example.I'll chk out those dividend sites. Link to post Share on other sites
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