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classless "play" leads to loss of a big pot...


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I just wanted to see what some of you guys thought of this situation...I was playing 1/2 NL at a new cardroom that opened up a few months ago in my area. I was sitting on the button with K :) Q :) . After a late position limper, I raised it up to $15 (as was a standard pre-flop raise at this game). An aggressive older "hotshot" called out of the BB and the limper folded. The flop came down Q :club: -4 :) -7 :D . The BB player checked, and I led out for $25. BB calls.Turn brings the 2 :D . BB player checked, and I made a "feeler" bet of $30. BB calls.At this point, I was fairly sure I had the best hand. I had been watching a lot of hands this guy had played (because he seemed to play them all!) and had never seen him slow play any sort of big hand. Top-pair/good-kicker combos, two pairs & sets, flushes/straights etc.The river brings the A :) , and the BB leads out and bets $170, or enough to basically put me all-in. I sat back for a minute and thought about the play of the hand. It didn't make sense that he would have called me down with a low pair or a naked ace. He didn't play the possible flush as he had when he had it, and to me it just seemed like a flat out steal. After thinking for a minute, I called, and here's where the issue at hand occurs.Before I called, I said, "Well, you got me curious, I'm gonna pay to see it." I flipped my K-Q, and immediately after I put my chips in, he un-caps his cards, saying "nut flush" and flipping over the 10 :D . Hearing this, before he turned over his second card, I flipped my hand toward the middle of the table. After that, he turns over his other card, showing the J :) and says, " I was lying, but your hand is dead. My pot."Now, I do realize that I made a mistake in throwing my cards in before I saw both of his. I'm just wondering if there is any sort of rule in how he showed his hand, deliberately showing the club first and declaring the wrong hand, as well as the fact that I did originally show my hand. This place isn't a casino, just a little cardroom in NY. Obviously, this guy pulled a filthy move in desperation, realizing I made the correct call, and trying anything he could think of to steal the pot, but I just think that, even if there is no rule against it, it's just a classless move, especially because he deals at the same room. I feel like he sets a bad example of table ediquette, and makes a negative statement about the room in general, by pulling stunts like that, and then laughing and bragging about it for about 15 minutes afterward. Let me know what you guys think

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I basically told the guy what I said here. I wasn't rude or obnoxious, but I told him that things like that really sets a poor example for not only the kids like myself, and also is just bad for the game in general. Especiallybecause a lot of the younger players are just bored rich kids and will donk off all their money to you anyway.I added the fact that he's a dealer at this place, and trying to steal pots by lying and trickery is classless and absurd. I could tell just by looking at the guy that he already had no class, but had hoped he might show the slightest bit, seeing as how he was an employee, representing the cardroom and it's staff at the tables.

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He's lucky he didnt do that to somebody else or he wouldve gotten the crap beeat out of him. Completely classless play, but that's the new age of poker, unfortunately. Poor move on your part, by tossing your hand in the muck, but it's hard to say that a lot of us here wouldnt do the same thing. If it were me, I'd just put it out of my mind for the rest of time and act like it never happened. All it can do is rile you up and mke you play badly against him, even though he is the poorer player.Good luck, I'm sure Karma will catch up to that guy someday.

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Sadly, the mobney meant more to him that it did to you.
I actually was thinking the same thing after it happened. I wanted to tell him, "Hey man if you need $200 something bucks that bad that you'll pull something like that, I guess you're lousy personality isn't bringin in too many dealer tips."And flipping the cards over was just a reflex after I put the money in, and since I had been running pretty bad during the past half hour of the session, I guess it was partly out of frustration when I threw my cards in. I learned my lesson, but that's a pretty shitty way to have to learn it. I wound up going home and making back the money online. It's sad when the online idiots talking trash and running their mouths was actually a familiar relief! LOL
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At my B&M, ther'es a regular, who refuses to show his cards unless he has to. He'll bet, you'll call the river, and he'll just sit there--and sit there.I don't blame him--he gets away with it, but, I always make people shwo first when I'm in position/when it's the correc t thing to do.. It saves me from giving away information, and I can still collect information when I'm beat. Honestly, don't show your cards unless the dealer tells you, "I need to see those first." unless you have the nuts--no need to slow roll...I'm pretty coherent for a guy who's watsed, don't ya think?

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At my B&M, ther'es a regular, who refuses to show his cards unless he has to. He'll bet, you'll call the river, and he'll just sit there--and sit there.I don't blame him--he gets away with it, but, I always make people shwo first when I'm in position/when it's the correc t thing to do.. It saves me from giving away information, and I can still collect information when I'm beat. Honestly, don't show your cards unless the dealer tells you, "I need to see those first." unless you have the nuts--no need to slow roll...I'm pretty coherent for a guy who's watsed, don't ya think?
you had me fooled til that last typo.. way to be!
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At my B&M, ther'es a regular, who refuses to show his cards unless he has to. He'll bet, you'll call the river, and he'll just sit there--and sit there.I don't blame him--he gets away with it, but, I always make people shwo first when I'm in position/when it's the correc t thing to do.. It saves me from giving away information, and I can still collect information when I'm beat. Honestly, don't show your cards unless the dealer tells you, "I need to see those first." unless you have the nuts--no need to slow roll...I'm pretty coherent for a guy who's watsed, don't ya think?
What kinda wasted are ya?Beer wasted?Whiskey wasted?
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I'm pretty coherent for a guy who's watsed, don't ya think?
Not really.To the OP, wow dude, you're kind'a a puss, no?At the very least you complain to the floor, or if no floor, the dealer and the owner/manager of whatever place you're playing at... "I revealed my cards, he is required to show his cards", even if it may not be true at that establishment.And, when all else fails, "I know where you work, fcker" might have an effect.To each their own, I guess.
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At my B&M, ther'es a regular, who refuses to show his cards unless he has to. He'll bet, you'll call the river, and he'll just sit there--and sit there.I don't blame him--he gets away with it, but, I always make people shwo first when I'm in position/when it's the correc t thing to do.. It saves me from giving away information, and I can still collect information when I'm beat. Honestly, don't show your cards unless the dealer tells you, "I need to see those first." unless you have the nuts--no need to slow roll...I'm pretty coherent for a guy who's watsed, don't ya think?
What kinda wasted are ya?Beer wasted?Whiskey wasted?
Nah..Vodka wasted. Atleast, I was. I think it's been a god two hours since my last drikn. I took care of business with the lady and came home, and here I am, not tired, but, still regretfuly buzzed,. Want to smell my figners?
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I'm pretty coherent for a guy who's watsed, don't ya think?
Not really.To the OP, wow dude, you're kind'a a puss, no?At the very least you complain to the floor, or if no floor, the dealer and the owner/manager of whatever place you're playing at... "I revealed my cards, he is required to show his cards", even if it may not be true at that establishment.And, when all else fails, "I know where you work, fcker" might have an effect.To each their own, I guess.
HEY!WHer'eve you been? I've missed you.<touch>
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I'm pretty coherent for a guy who's watsed, don't ya think?
Not really.To the OP, wow dude, you're kind'a a puss, no?At the very least you complain to the floor, or if no floor, the dealer and the owner/manager of whatever place you're playing at... "I revealed my cards, he is required to show his cards", even if it may not be true at that establishment.And, when all else fails, "I know where you work, fcker" might have an effect.To each their own, I guess.
I debate it with the dealer,as well as the floor manager/casher at the cage. They sided with the guy, saying if I mucked my hand it can't be debated. I also had a nice oversized Louisville Slugger that I use for batting cage sessions, but unfortunately didn't know what kind of car the guy drove
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Is this dude like 70? Cuz 50 and younger I'm whoopin his ass.
Nah, he was about 40 or so. Dressed up like some biker scum. Feel free to kick his ass, PM for directions to the card room :wink:
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I debate it with the dealer,as well as the floor manager/casher at the cage. They sided with the guy, saying if I mucked my hand it can't be debated. I also had a nice oversized Louisville Slugger that I use for batting cage sessions, but unfortunately didn't know what kind of car the guy drove
Hmm, then you're pretty much hosed I guess, if unwilling to personallhy threaten the guy.
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I'm pretty coherent for a guy who's watsed, don't ya think?
Not really.To the OP, wow dude, you're kind'a a puss, no?At the very least you complain to the floor, or if no floor, the dealer and the owner/manager of whatever place you're playing at... "I revealed my cards, he is required to show his cards", even if it may not be true at that establishment.And, when all else fails, "I know where you work, fcker" might have an effect.To each their own, I guess.
I debate it with the dealer,as well as the floor manager/casher at the cage. They sided with the guy, saying if I mucked my hand it can't be debated. I also had a nice oversized Louisville Slugger that I use for batting cage sessions, but unfortunately didn't know what kind of car the guy drove
Well, since the a-clown deals there you can find out what his ride is and take at least $200 worth of batting practice on it later.Sorry that you had to learn such a hard lesson, but he's not the last a-clown you'll meet shooting angles. Along with some really nice people, you'll also encounter the lowest of the low in card rooms.
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I debate it with the dealer,as well as the floor manager/casher at the cage. They sided with the guy, saying if I mucked my hand it can't be debated. I also had a nice oversized Louisville Slugger that I use for batting cage sessions, but unfortunately didn't know what kind of car the guy drove
Nah, I wouldn't risk getting myself in that kind of trouble (well, unless you can do it without getting caught), but my angle on it would be the fact that the guy works there. Make a big stink with the manager and maybe even get loud (not foul, but make sure that other customers hear what you're saying), arguing that if this is the kind of employees he hires, who'll pull scummy moves like this, you aren't going to bring your money there again. If the manager is smart (and you can nudge him harder with something like, "I'll make sure all my friends and anyone who plays poker that I know...and I'll post it on all the Internet message boards..."), he'll realize that the risks of knowingly letting this happen to a paying customer (and that it'll end up costing him in other customers and reputation) outweighs the "legality" of the play he made on you.The bottom line is, he spanked you with a back-alley play, but while it's definitely classless, there aren't rules against it. In fact, I believe I read that someone did that in a major tourney a few years ago with the same results. You mucked your hand, though, so he wins no matter what he holds or how he got to that point. The only power you have at that point is raising a ruckus and threatening to take your (and others') business away for not much gain on their end.The *other* bottom line is, you're smarter now, and you won't let some jerk play you again. Oh, and you can also pat yourself on the back for your read--you made the right play after watching him carefully for a while and picking up on his methods. You lost the hand for all the wrong reasons. A E
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Nah, he was about 40 or so. Dressed up like some biker scum. Feel free to kick his ass, PM for directions to the card room :wink:
Oh, I don't think you should be shy about naming the place and the guy, so none of us have to risk suffering that same kind of stunt. A E
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Nah, I wouldn't risk getting myself in that kind of trouble (well, unless you can do it without getting caught),
not likely in the parking lot of a casino (especially a new one). not ... likely.. at all
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In response to matthew r:It isn't a casino. It's a small privately owned cardroom.Other than this arsehole I can't bring myself to say anything bad about the place. This happened on my 3rd session there, and from what I've seen, the management is very concerned with it's customer's satisfaction (setting an unused table aside for some shorthanded 1/2 NL at my request, etc.), which is why I might take up further action / discussion with the owner, as someone had suggested above.

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ah, well, in that case you can totally get away with ****ing his car up. probably.id wait a while tho.(im used to the indian reservation casinos here, thus the confusion... people have got busted doing stuff in the parking lots many times... even inside their cars...)and what the heck is up with the 97 of spades nonsense heh

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LOL I'm not really planning on messing with the guy's car, but I am going to see to it that the management of the place has this brought to their attention. I want to go about it in as upfront a way as possible, as not to allow them any leverage for taking action, and smashing the windshield of a car might soil my reputation as a stand-up type player, LOL

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