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wpt's big screw up!



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Are you reading the same forum? We're definitely not in agreement.And, by the way, people from WPT watch these forums. However, they're not going to change our entire structure, set-up, and budget because a few guys on this forum think the WPT doesn't care about good poker. All opinions are valued, but much thought has already been put into the way the tournaments are run. It's going well.
not sure if i quoted that correctly, but i have few posts under my belt, go easy on me folks. ;)WPTCookie, i didn't mean to ignore other point of views, would you elaborate on why you like it the way it is?
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Are you reading the same forum? We're definitely not in agreement.And' date=' by the way, people from WPT watch these forums. However, they're not going to change our entire structure, set-up, and budget because a few guys on this forum think the WPT doesn't care about good poker. All opinions are valued, but much thought has already been put into the way the tournaments are run. It's going well. [/quote']not sure if i quoted that correctly, but i have few posts under my belt, go easy on me folks. ;)WPTCookie, i didn't mean to ignore other point of views, would you elaborate on why you like it the way it is?
Though I'm not a seasoned pro with tons of tournament experience under my belt, I know that the WPT takes great care in planning the tournaments along with the host casinos. As the WPT has grown in popularity over the years, we now have as many as 500-800 people entering our tournaments. The blind structure is set up to allow everyone to play but keep it flowing so that one event doesn't take two weeks! By the time 800 players turn into a table of six for the final show, the blinds are already sky-high. The final table play isn't sped up, though it may seem that way when the show is finally put together.For example, the Season 3 Championship final table was seven or eight hours long! People were falling asleep in the stands, everyone was starving, and the players were extremely tired. Surely, no one was complaining that the blinds were escalating too fast. And all you saw on television was the 3-hour edited version. Many final tables go on for hours upon hours, but you only see the edited version with exciting hands and key plays.I respect that some people have issues with the blind structure. There are just a great deal of factors that go into making a decision to change them, the biggest of which is the feelings of the players.Thanks for listening...
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Are you reading the same forum? We're definitely not in agreement.And' date=' by the way' date=' people from WPT watch these forums. However, they're not going to change our entire structure, set-up, and budget because a few guys on this forum think the WPT doesn't care about good poker. [b'']All opinions are valued, but much thought has already been put into the way the tournaments are run. It's going well. [/b]
The players hate the structure. They may make a union they hate it so much. Play a slow structure the entire tourney, then you speed it up a lot.not sure if i quoted that correctly, but i have few posts under my belt, go easy on me folks. ;)WPTCookie, i didn't mean to ignore other point of views, would you elaborate on why you like it the way it is?
Though I'm not a seasoned pro with tons of tournament experience under my belt, I know that the WPT takes great care in planning the tournaments along with the host casinos. As the WPT has grown in popularity over the years, we now have as many as 500-800 people entering our tournaments. The blind structure is set up to allow everyone to play but keep it flowing so that one event doesn't take two weeks! By the time 800 players turn into a table of six for the final show, the blinds are already sky-high. The final table play isn't sped up, though it may seem that way when the show is finally put together.your a lier. they change the blind structure and have 60 min blinds. you lied to us again. The blinds are moderate going into the ft. The WPT makes them sky high.For example, the Season 3 Championship final table was seven or eight hours long! People were falling asleep in the stands, everyone was starving, and the players were extremely tired. Are u kidding me. they are playing for $2.5 million. u don't give any money to the tourneys and u make them switch the blinds to accomidate the filming structure. u care about the people watching, what a joke.how about give them a break with some food. No?how about start earlier.every day starts at 12pmthe ft starts at 5 or 6.Surely, no one was complaining that the blinds were escalating too fast. And all you saw on television was the 3-hour edited version. Many final tables go on for hours upon hours, but you only see the edited version with exciting hands and key plays.so how about play blind mans bluff wth 8bbs each.I respect that some people have issues with the blind structure. Who does not?There are just a great deal of factors that go into making a decision to change them, the biggest of which is the feelings of the players.what, are you joking? players r boycotting the wpt!Thanks for listening...your a jobke!Please tell me the WPT LISTENS!
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FluffDog, do you have some anger issues? You just completely went off. I was explaining my opinion, and as an insider at WPT, I was trying to give some perspective. You just made yourself sound like a raving lunatic.Were you at the Championship last April? Have you ever watched the WPT film an event? Have you ever sat in an edit bay with eight hours of footage to make into a two-hour show? Have you ever produced anything for television?Ummm, a handful of players are rumored to be boycotting the WPT, but those people are also in discussion with the WPT about their concerns. Do you know these players? Have you talked to them? Didn't think so.So much for having a rational discussion on this forum... :roll:

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FluffDog, do you have some anger issues?  You just completely went off.  I was explaining my opinion, and as an insider at WPT, I was trying to give some perspective.  You just made yourself sound like a raving lunatic.Were you at the Championship last April?  Have you ever watched the WPT film an event?  Have you ever sat in an edit bay with eight hours of footage to make into a two-hour show?  Have you ever produced anything for television?Ummm, a handful of players are rumored to be boycotting the WPT, but those people are also in discussion with the WPT about their concerns.  Do you know these players?  Have you talked to them?  Didn't think so.So much for having a rational discussion on this forum... :roll:
im pissed off at the wpttell me you did not lie in your previous post.answer my questions.
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FluffDog, do you have some anger issues?  You just completely went off.  I was explaining my opinion, and as an insider at WPT, I was trying to give some perspective.  You just made yourself sound like a raving lunatic.Were you at the Championship last April?  Have you ever watched the WPT film an event?  Have you ever sat in an edit bay with eight hours of footage to make into a two-hour show?  Have you ever produced anything for television?Ummm, a handful of players are rumored to be boycotting the WPT, but those people are also in discussion with the WPT about their concerns.  Do you know these players?  Have you talked to them?  Didn't think so.So much for having a rational discussion on this forum... :roll:
im censored off at the wpttell me you did not lie in your previous post.answer my questions.
I don't care how angry you are with the WPT. Don't tell me what to do. I don't have to answer you, especially when you are rude to me and insult me. I'm not discussing this with you. If anyone else wants to discuss the topic, send me a private message.
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We had a few threads about this during the big WPT 5 Diamond Event.Basically the WPT raises the blinds so fast to cut on costs of film crew, editing, etc...  It is bs, but the average poker fan still doesn't care about it and wants to see all in every hand.  Also, I want the new player watching this to think that KJ is an all in hand when they play, so I don't mind it that much because I'm not playing in the event.  It is ridiculous though that the part where the money gaps are greatest has the most luck involved.
I saw a guy over call two all ins ( for his 400)after bumping a pre-flop raiser from 30 to 60 with KJh in a 2-5 NL game. Gotta love tv tourney poker, plus, donks who somehow apply tourney poker to cash games. Its nutty... Even Tiffany Williamson can make that laydown.(Queens vs Aces vs KJhs btw, hilarious)
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Well, what about the WSOP Main event final table? That went on for about 16 hours or so. The blinds were still low when they were shorthanded. The WPT Championship is the second most prestigious event next to the WSOP Main event. You're telling me that 8 hours is too long? You need to give the people enough time to play when there is that much money at stake. They need to give the final few ample time to play when there is a $1 million gap between 3rd and 1st place.

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Thank you for explaining that point of view as well as you did. I can appreciate the practical aspects of what you're saying a lot more now, as I've never actually been to one of these tapings. I can imagine how exhausted the audience and the crew would get...One thing though, you mentioned that perhaps the biggest consideration was the feelings of the players. See, i may be way off here, but other than a ('more sophisticated') audience enjoying a more skillfully played out final table, one of the biggest reasons I was pushing this issue was because I thought the players playing (at least the ones who fancy themselves more skillful) would actually be in agreement... I suppose after 6 or 7 hours around that table, things may change, but the Doyle's and the Antonious' and the Negreanu's of the poker world, once they're at that table with 1 or 2 more players for them to 'dispose' of, they're not crying for the blinds to stop? (Even at the expense of their exhaustion?)[btw, i appreciate the fact that the blinds don't actually 'speed up' once we get to the final table, it just appears that way.. sure, sure.. i realize we're talking hours here, then again, the pro would say that we're sometimes talking almost a million dollars in difference... all i'm refering to is what the blinds eventually get up to with respect to even the biggest stack] I'm sorry, i don't mean to bore you to death--I know I'll have a heck of a time if I think I can convince you otherwise, BUT, let me end by asking if you've seen any Sunday final table at pokerstars? More often than not, skill wins out. I have seen a heads up with a 5-to-1 chip advantage get chipped away, bit by bit, until the small stack stands supreme--it's truly a wonderful spectacle to behold.Thank U for reading. :roll:

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Wow, a whole lot has been said while I was composing that reply up there, WPTCookie.. would you mind replying to my message above in a PM, if you don't plan to do it here? Thank you!PoppinFresh, sorry, what is 'rx8'?

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Thank you for explaining that point of view as well as you did. I can appreciate the practical aspects of what you're saying a lot more now, as I've never actually been to one of these tapings. I can imagine how exhausted the audience and the crew would get...One thing though, you mentioned that perhaps the biggest consideration was the feelings of the players. See, i may be way off here, but other than a ('more sophisticated') audience enjoying a more skillfully played out final table, one of the biggest reasons I was pushing this issue was because I thought the players playing (at least the ones who fancy themselves more skillful) would actually be in agreement... I suppose after 6 or 7 hours around that table, things may change, but the Doyle's and the Antonious' and the Negreanu's of the poker world, once they're at that table with 1 or 2 more players for them to 'dispose' of, they're not crying for the blinds to stop? (Even at the expense of their exhaustion?)[btw, i appreciate the fact that the blinds don't actually 'speed up' once we get to the final table, it just appears that way.. sure, sure.. i realize we're talking hours here, then again, the pro would say that we're sometimes talking almost a million dollars in difference... all i'm refering to is what the blinds eventually get up to with respect to even the biggest stack] I'm sorry, i don't mean to bore you to death--I know I'll have a heck of a time if I think I can convince you otherwise, BUT, let me end by asking if you've seen any Sunday final table at pokerstars? More often than not, skill wins out. I have seen a heads up with a 5-to-1 chip advantage get chipped away, bit by bit, until the small stack stands supreme--it's truly a wonderful spectacle to behold.Thank U for reading. :roll:
Hi, MrH. I understand what you're saying about the players being in favor of slowing down the blinds, and some may definitely feel that way. I do not speak for the players, especially those at that Championship final table. I was just giving my observations and speaking from a production standpoint.I know that there are millions of dollars at stake at these final tables, and I personally enjoy reading both sides of the argument.I have not watched an entire episode of Pokerstars, but I will try to check it out one of these weekends. Thanks for the tip. :club:
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My pleasure. :-)Thanks for taking some time out to discuss this issue here with me, and some of the other, more experienced posters on this forum. <btw, as a WPT insider, i have some people in the torrent industry who would like to have a word with you. hehe, j/k>

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Are you reading the same forum? We're definitely not in agreement.And' date=' by the way' date=' people from WPT watch these forums. However, they're not going to change our entire structure, set-up, and budget because a few guys on this forum think the WPT doesn't care about good poker. [b'']All opinions are valued, but much thought has already been put into the way the tournaments are run. It's going well. [/b]
The players hate the structure. They may make a union they hate it so much. Play a slow structure the entire tourney, then you speed it up a lot.not sure if i quoted that correctly, but i have few posts under my belt, go easy on me folks. ;)WPTCookie, i didn't mean to ignore other point of views, would you elaborate on why you like it the way it is?
Though I'm not a seasoned pro with tons of tournament experience under my belt, I know that the WPT takes great care in planning the tournaments along with the host casinos. As the WPT has grown in popularity over the years, we now have as many as 500-800 people entering our tournaments. The blind structure is set up to allow everyone to play but keep it flowing so that one event doesn't take two weeks! By the time 800 players turn into a table of six for the final show, the blinds are already sky-high. The final table play isn't sped up, though it may seem that way when the show is finally put together.your a lier. they change the blind structure and have 60 min blinds. you lied to us again. The blinds are moderate going into the ft. The WPT makes them sky high.For example, the Season 3 Championship final table was seven or eight hours long! People were falling asleep in the stands, everyone was starving, and the players were extremely tired. Are u kidding me. they are playing for $2.5 million. u don't give any money to the tourneys and u make them switch the blinds to accomidate the filming structure. u care about the people watching, what a joke.how about give them a break with some food. No?how about start earlier.every day starts at 12pmthe ft starts at 5 or 6.Surely, no one was complaining that the blinds were escalating too fast. And all you saw on television was the 3-hour edited version. Many final tables go on for hours upon hours, but you only see the edited version with exciting hands and key plays.so how about play blind mans bluff wth 8bbs each.I respect that some people have issues with the blind structure. Who does not?There are just a great deal of factors that go into making a decision to change them, the biggest of which is the feelings of the players.what, are you joking? players r boycotting the wpt!Thanks for listening...
your a jobke!Please tell me the WPT LISTENS!your a lier. they change the blind structure and have 60 min blinds. you lied to us again. The blinds are moderate going into the ft. The WPT makes them sky high.Are u kidding me. they are playing for $2.5 million. u don't give any money to the tourneys and u make them switch the blinds to accomidate the filming structure. u care about the people watching, what a joke.how about give them a break with some food. No?how about start earlier.every day starts at 12pmthe ft starts at 5 or 6.Round Time: 90 Minutes1 50-100 0 0 2 100-200 0 0 3 100-200 25 0 4 200-400 50 0 5 300-600 75 0 6 400-800 100 0 7 500-1000 100 0 8 600-1200 200 0 9 800-1600 200 0 10 1000-2000 300 0 11 1500-3000 400 0 12 2000-4000 500 0 13 3000-6000 500 0 14 4000-8000 1000 0 15 5000-10000 1000 0 16 6000-12000 2000 0 17 8000-16000 2000 0 18 10000-20000 3000 0 19 12000-24000 3000 0 20 15000-30000 4000 0 21 20000-40000 5000 0 22 30000-60000 5000 0 click on this link to read the hand logs of an all in fest for $2 million.http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tournament...911&screen=logsFinal blinds before the ft.Date / Time: 2005-12-15 21:26:00 Title: 15-Minute Break; Blinds Increasing to $30,000-$60,000 ($5,000 Ante) Log: The players take a 15-minute break before the blinds increase to $30,000-$60,000, with a $5,000 ante. Instead of 90 min blinds at the ft they do 60 min blinds.blinds start out at basically the same level.Date / Time: 2005-12-16 19:21:00 Title: Blinds at $25,000-$50,000 ($5,000 Ante); Shuffle Up & Deal! Log: The blinds will be starting at $25,000-$50,000, with a $5,000 ante. Time to shuffle up and deal! Date / Time: 2005-12-16 20:27:00 Title: Blinds Increasing to $40,000-$80,000 ($10,000 Ante) Log: The blinds increase to $40,000-$80,000, with a $10,000 ante. Play will continue without a break. Date / Time: 2005-12-16 21:37:00 Title: Blinds Increasing to $60,000-$120,000 ($15,000 Ante) Log: The blinds increase to $60,000-$120,000, with a $15,000 ante. Play will continue without a break Date / Time: 2005-12-16 22:49:00 Title: Blinds Increasing to $100,000-$200,000 ($20,000 Ante) Log: The blinds increase to $100,000-$200,000, with a $20,000 ante. Play will continue without a break. The blue ($5,000) chips are being raced off the table. Date / Time: 2005-12-17 00:05:00 Title: Blinds Increasing to $150,000-$300,000 ($30,000 Ante) Log: The blinds increase to $150,000-$300,000, with a $30,000 ante. Play will continue without a break. Date / Time: 2005-12-17 01:29:00 Title: Blinds Increasing to $200,000-$400,000 ($40,000 Ante); Shuffle Up & Deal! what blinds seem low here don't they.at 150k-300k there was 14 consequtive all in s preflop.why? u can't raise regular because if someone reraises you your so far pot commited its sick.oops i missed the final blinds.Date / Time: 2005-12-17 02:01:00 Title: Blinds Increasing to $300,000-$600,000 ($50,000 Ante) Log: The blinds increase to $300,000-$600,000, with a $50,000 ante. Play will continue without a break. SKILL DECIDED THIS TOURNAMENT.Date / Time: 2005-12-17 02:09:00 Title: Rehne Pedersen Doubles Through Patrik Antonius; Antonius Crippled Log: Hand #168 - Patrik Antonius has the button, he limps for $600,000, and Pedersen checks his option. The flop comes Js-10c-6s, Pedersen checks, Antonius bets $600,000, and Pedersen folds. Antonius takes the pot. Linda Johnson announces that the two players are nearly even, with about $8.5 million in chips each. Hand #169 - Rehne Pedersen has the button, and he folds. Hand #170 - Patrik Antonius has the button, he moves all in, and Pedersen immediately calls with Ad-4d. Antonius has him dominated with As-Ks. Pedersen needs to improve to stay alive here, as Antonius has a few more chips. The flop comes 7h-6s-5d, and Pedersen picks up an open-ended straight draw, and he suddenly has a lot of outs. The turn card is the 3s, and Pedersen hits his straight. But now Antonius has picked up a flush draw, and lots of people in the audience start chanting, "Spade! Spade! Spade! Spade!" The river card is the 10h, and Rehne Pedersen wins the hand with a seven-high straight to double up in chips. The new chip counts: Rehne Pedersen - $16,500,000 Patrik Antonius - $150,000 ALL SKILL. :roll: :wink: :!:
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I spoke with John Dagostino at a recent WPT event on this very subject and he agrees that the Final Table structure is a joke. Maybe the WPT will go broke and a better format/structure will come along that gives the players what it wants.Daggs best evidence of this besides the obvious (that it becomes an all-in fest)In the recent event he played and final tabled in September, it took 70 hands to lose the first player at teh final table and the entire tournament was over about 20 hands later!There was also 19 all-ins in a row.Moreso, Ivey and Juanda have both made countless WPT final tables yet neither of them have a win. This is the best proof you have when two of the best tournament players in the world make this many final 6 appearances yet have no wins. Bad structure.

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FluffDog, you are a rude bitch. And you really need to seek therapy for that anger.The time limit on the blinds may change when the final table begins, but the blinds still go up incrementally.When you see so many all-in hands in a row, it's because of TV EDITING! Wow. You really don't listen to what anyone else has to say.I've had a decent discussion with someone about this topic in private messages. No one is angry, no one is yelling, no one is rude.I was going to ask around at work (WPT) about the structures to get some more detailed answers, but I will not post them here because I'm not telling you shit.If you hate the WPT so much, why do you watch it? Why do you follow it? Hypocrite.

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as long as they feel it makes their production cheaper and their show more exciting why would they ever change the structure?
I'm sure they would consider it if enough players expressed concerns. Up to this point in time, that hasn't happened.
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WPTcookie, how can you say that the blinds are not sped up for the final table when they use a mathematical formula to alter the blind structure for the final table that has nothing to do with the tournament's own blind structure?I was under the impression that this structure does little to compensate for the increased amount of time per hand. Also, headsup, don't the blind levels drop to 30 minutes?At foxwoods they jumped from 12/24 4kante to 25/50 5kante for the shooting. That's pretty sick.

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FluffDog, you are a rude censored. And you really need to seek therapy for that anger.The time limit on the blinds may change when the final table begins, but the blinds still go up incrementally.When you see so many all-in hands in a row, it's because of TV EDITING! Wow. You really don't listen to what anyone else has to say.I've had a decent discussion with someone about this topic in private messages. No one is angry, no one is yelling, no one is rude.I was going to ask around at work (WPT) about the structures to get some more detailed answers, but I will not post them here because I'm not telling you censored.If you hate the WPT so much, why do you watch it? Why do you follow it? Hypocrite.
OK sir, I will attempt to be the voice of rationalization here. I will not shout, and I will attempt not to be rude. The examples FluffDog uses are from the 2005 5 Diamond Classic at Bellagio held under a month ago. The hands we are talking about are directly from the Cardplayer hand by hand histories, which they do not edit any hands. In literally 19 straight hands, somebody moved all in. There was no editing, no hands deleted, every hand was shown.I believe it was 3 handed and/or HU when this happened. If you wish to see it, there are archived hand histories for that tournament through Cardplayer's website. In my humble opinion, the WPT should let the tournament directors set the final table blinds structure instead of doing it themselves. Also, if people are tired, start the final table earlier. Start it at around 2 instead of 6PM.
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If you hate the WPT so much, why do you watch it? Why do you follow it? Hypocrite.
like many other players, i dont watch it any more.because of the selective editing and huge blinds, you cant learn any real strategy from watching it. i dont think it is entertaining either now that ive learned to play poker.and the reason we might tend to be rude is because you guys are seen as doing something that goes against the majority of the players wishes just to make a little more money.
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FluffDog, you are a rude censored. And you really need to seek therapy for that anger.The time limit on the blinds may change when the final table begins, but the blinds still go up incrementally.When you see so many all-in hands in a row, it's because of TV EDITING! Wow. You really don't listen to what anyone else has to say.I've had a decent discussion with someone about this topic in private messages. No one is angry, no one is yelling, no one is rude.I was going to ask around at work (WPT) about the structures to get some more detailed answers, but I will not post them here because I'm not telling you censored.If you hate the WPT so much, why do you watch it? Why do you follow it? Hypocrite.
OK sir, I will attempt to be the voice of rationalization here. I will not shout, and I will attempt not to be rude. The examples FluffDog uses are from the 2005 5 Diamond Classic at Bellagio held under a month ago. The hands we are talking about are directly from the Cardplayer hand by hand histories, which they do not edit any hands. In literally 19 straight hands, somebody moved all in. There was no editing, no hands deleted, every hand was shown.I believe it was 3 handed and/or HU when this happened. If you wish to see it, there are archived hand histories for that tournament through Cardplayer's website. In my humble opinion, the WPT should let the tournament directors set the final table blinds structure instead of doing it themselves. Also, if people are tired, start the final table earlier. Start it at around 2 instead of 6PM.
i gave you a link to the hand logs wptcookie.i typed all of the info necessary for you to see you are wrong.did you even read it?you 1. lied about the wpt facts you came up with,or 2. wanted to have an informed discussion about a subject you obviously know very little about.all of the info is there for you to read.the players are disgusted, so do not say they are not.i provided facts for my argument.you called me angry and would not answer my very simple questions.i now know why. You are affiliated with the wpt, and you yourself can not answer a simple question that i can find the answer to on a poker site in 6 secs.if you want to have a discussion, know the facts like I do.
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