wpt's big screw up!

[MrH 0]

Anyone else feel that their final table blind structure is a big joke? I recently heard one of their announcers, 'Sexton', on a broadcast say something to the effect of "Now the poker is serious', when the blinds shot up to like 100,000 BB or 200k.. and i thought, is this guy for real? That's when the poker becomes a joke!I think PokerStars has it right here with their Sunday tournies stopping at like 30k/60k, they're basically saying, ok, we've thinned the field down, now it's time for skill to carry the winner through. That's how a multi-million dollar WPT tournament should be decided! I can appreciate (to some extent) that early on, they wanted more exciting tv, and the crazy last minute all-ins provide for more drama, "who will win it?", they don't want it to be so obvious in the last 10-15 minutes of their broadcast, with the better player grinding the other one down. But it's been 3 years, their audience is more sophisticated now, we actually WANT to see them play poker till the end!I hope they listen to this, because if their brand of final table poker continues, all they do is cheapen the win & the title for the eventual winner.. (and that's why we often see so many undeserving winners by the turn of a single card)Anyone agree with me here?

[PotDragon 0]

The rounds are at least 75 minutes for each WPT event. What you are watching is a tape of the final table that has been EDITED. :roll:

[BNH77 0]

In season 3 there were some good heads up duals, Doyal vs Lee W and DN vs David W strike me the most. But Im sure there were others.

[zimmer4141 0]

We had a few threads about this during the big WPT 5 Diamond Event.Basically the WPT raises the blinds so fast to cut on costs of film crew, editing, etc... It is bs, but the average poker fan still doesn't care about it and wants to see all in every hand. Also, I want the new player watching this to think that KJ is an all in hand when they play, so I don't mind it that much because I'm not playing in the event. It is ridiculous though that the part where the money gaps are greatest has the most luck involved.

[Whatever 1]

The only thing I like about it as compared to something like the main event final table is that with the WPT you're getting almost hand by hand coverage. You get a true feel for the event.

[zimmer4141 0]

The rounds are at least 75 minutes for each WPT event. What you are watching is a tape of the final table that has been EDITED. :roll:

No, the blinds were ridiculous for the WPT Season 3 Championship, and the recent 5 Diamond Classic at the Bellagio. You would watch live updates through cardplayer, and just see the blinds skyrocket. When they were 4 handed, I believe the average stack was between 10-13 BBs.

[TheLadiezMan 0]

Yea, you might be right, but look at it from a business standpoint. How long are the matches already? Think about the extra expenses they would have to spend, the amount of editing, restlessness from the crowd, and probably from the players too. If you also think about it, how would it be condusive for a business? Think about how exciting those big swings are to average person? Hell to the poker player. You cannot deny it is exciting. It would be too boring to watch on tv if it wasn't otherwise. This is just what I think but I think it could only hurt the WPT. Although, lets be honest, they do a pretty good job of hurting themselves already.

[MrH 0]

Sorry PotDragon, by how fast they go up I didn't just mean time-wise, I also meant amount, so even if its 75min, for example, if the blinds double, that's pretty damned fast in my opinion..BNH77, i agree with one of your 2 picks, Doyle vs Watkinson was an awesome heads-up match to see, and it was after seeing THAT one, that I began to ask myself where were all the rest? Because all you have to do is recall just what kind of match the Williams vs Negreanu was to realize how vastly different they were. Doyle's experience & skill really rose to the top, but I think Daniel would agree that at the blinds he was playing at the time, he was very fortunate to come out ahead..Just think of other heads-up or final 3s you've seen, recall Tuan Le's second win at the championship? Just ridiculous... somewhat good tv, but bad poker. I'm just thinking that more and more of their audience will appreciate the skill involved in the Doyle vs Watkinson match, as compared to the all-in bonanzas that most of their tables degenerate into.Zimmer, i think you have it all right.. save on costs, more exciting.. but as you said, it would be really bad IF we were at that table.. i guess they figure you're already getting a nice payday, so don't complain if we're gonna make it a toss up from here on in.. i don't like it.

[Phillip_339 0]

The only thing I like about it as compared to something like the main event final table is that with the WPT you're getting almost hand by hand coverage. You get a true feel for the event.

The WPT coverage is far from a 'hand by hand coverage'.

[WPTCookie 0]

The rounds are at least 75 minutes for each WPT event. What you are watching is a tape of the final table that has been EDITED. :roll:

Exactly. It's the magic of television.

[joeltebbutt 0]

Why does everyone say playing poker with not many bb is down to luck when it isn't. Buy SNGPT tools fool about with it and my point will be proved.

[zimmer4141 0]

Why does everyone say playing poker with not many bb is down to luck when it isn't. Buy SNGPT tools fool about with it and my point will be proved.

Wow, this may be the dumbest statement I have ever heard. I don't care how much of a forum vet you are or how many posts you have, this is asinine. I don't think push with any A, strong K, PP, or 20 is skillfull poker. The most skilled players will win if you play these 100 times. However, for a one shot deal, it is complete luck whereas deep stacked shorthanded play is predominately skill.

[Petoria 0]

Why does everyone say playing poker with not many bb is down to luck when it isn't. Buy SNGPT tools fool about with it and my point will be proved.

It's not always luck, but if you put a non-donkey against a non-donkey it will be almost all luck. When it's down to 6 or 7 BB's a piece you have no room to play poker. It's simply an all in shoving match. It's not good poker because there's only one play and it's made preflop.

[ArseneLupin3 0]

Why does everyone say playing poker with not many bb is down to luck when it isn't. Buy SNGPT tools fool about with it and my point will be proved.

Fool about with it? I will look at the results of ONE tournament and discover that the correlation of short term results to skill is very low and gets lower as the blinds:stack ratio increases.Raising the blinds means decreasing the length of long-term stats. It forces more neutral EV situations and pot-commitment situations.Also, please don't post saying something proves your point without explaining how. You contribute nothing to the discussion with that type of post.-adam

[ArseneLupin3 0]

Yea, you might be right, but look at it from a business standpoint.  How long are the matches already?  Think about the extra expenses they would have to spend, the amount of editing, restlessness from the crowd, and probably from the players too.  If you also think about it, how would it be condusive for a business?  Think about how exciting those big swings are to average person?  Hell to the poker player.  You cannot deny it is exciting.  It would be too boring to watch on tv if it wasn't otherwise.  This is just what I think but I think it could only hurt the WPT.  Although, lets be honest, they do a pretty good job of hurting themselves already.

How would watching the show with deeper stacks be any different? They would just edit out the less interesting hands anyways..They could always switch to a digital recording medium. Editing costs aren't very prohibitive, either. You can look at the cardplayer transcript of an event and pick out the hands you want in about an hour. From there, it's still the same amount of time of footage being edited, so what's the big deal?The WPT is already losing players (paul phillips, andy bloch) because of this and other reasons..-adam

[76clubs 0]

Anyone else feel that their final table blind structure is a big joke?  I recently heard one of their announcers, 'Sexton', on a broadcast say something to the effect of "Now the poker is serious', when the blinds shot up to like 100,000 BB or 200k..  and i thought, is this guy for real?  That's when the poker becomes a joke!I think PokerStars has it right here with their Sunday tournies stopping at like 30k/60k, they're basically saying, ok, we've thinned the field down, now it's time for skill to carry the winner through.  That's how a multi-million dollar WPT tournament should be decided!  I can appreciate (to some extent) that early on, they wanted more exciting tv, and the crazy last minute all-ins provide for more drama, "who will win it?",  they don't want it to be so obvious in the last 10-15 minutes of their broadcast, with the better player grinding the other one down.  But it's been 3 years, their audience is more sophisticated now, we actually WANT to see them play poker till the end!I hope they listen to this, because if their brand of final table poker continues, all they do is cheapen the win & the title for the eventual winner.. (and that's why we often see so many undeserving winners by the turn of a single card)Anyone agree with me here?

i agree, but newb, you misspelled "jopke." get it rite

[MrH 0]

I remember reading something on phillips' blog about a bone to pick with the WPT, so i guess this IS one of them, huh?What other issues do Bloch & Phillips have with the WPT?

[CardWarfare 4]

In season 3 there were some good heads up duals, Doyal vs Lee W and DN vs David W strike me the most. But Im sure there were others.

I actually just got done watching the DN vs. DW Borgata tourney on DVD. It was a classic, but I see where the arguement for the blinds is founded. Although, I think in the Borgata tourney, DW was moving in with a lot of the hands he moved in with regardless of blind/stack ratio.That being said, I've said for a while that blinds should be capped at a certain part of the final table. Possibly when it gets down to 3 handed, then raise once more at heads-up and stay there for the remainder.

[Petoria 0]

I remember reading something on phillips' blog about a bone to pick with the WPT, so i guess this IS one of them, huh?What other issues do Bloch & Phillips have with the WPT?

The main issue is the release that all players have to sign. Basically it says the WPT can use their image however they see fit. Use the search, there were a bunch of posts about it a couple weeks ago.

[Fluffdog87 2]

The rounds are at least 75 minutes for each WPT event. What you are watching is a tape of the final table that has been EDITED. :roll:

No, the blinds were ridiculous for the WPT Season 3 Championship, and the recent 5 Diamond Classic at the Bellagio. You would watch live updates through cardplayer, and just see the blinds skyrocket. When they were 4 handed, I believe the average stack was between 10-13 BBs.

8BB AVERAGENO SKILLDOYLE HAD HALF THE CHIPSLOST 2 ALL INS BY LUCK AND LOSTWPT IS BADTHEY KNOW ITTHEY SHOW ALMOST NO HANDSREAD THE CARPLAYER LOGSLAUGHLAUGH SOME MORE AT THE BLINDSLAUGH AT PPL DEFENDING THE WPTHAVE U EVER PLAYED EADS UP FOR 2 MIL, $ WITH 8BBS VS 8 BBSPATRICK ANTONIS GETS IT ALLI N WITH AK VS A4 LOSES THE TOURNEY AND 1.2 MILLION $.HE IS VERY HAPPY HE GOT UNLUCKY.YES I AM YELLING.[PLEASE READ THE CARDPLAYER HAND LOGS THEN DEFEND THE WPT.4 HANDED SOMEONE WENT ALL IN 15+ HANDS IN A ROW!ITS ALL SKILL! JOBKE

[anselm 0]

I heard Chris Ferguson was joining Phillips and Bloch in steering clear of WPT...true or false?

[MrJones 0]

Yeah Patrik is doing well in the tournament again. but that blinds are ridiculous the HU players should have 50 - 100 BBs, probably 100 BBs when they go head to head. Definately no less than 50, 25 is pushing it.

[MrH 0]

So we're pretty much all in agreement, the WPT *really* needs to change their final table structure. and FAST, before I actually win a seat into one of their tournies! :wink: hehe<but seriously, what happened with the most recent WPT final table with Antonius, and the other with Doyle is a disgrace.. they really should be embarassed>..All we need now is someone who holds some pull in the poker world, <ahem>, someone who maybe has a platform to speak from, <throat clearing>, to say something. hehe.. Or atleast, someone to forward that unscientific poll up there to the WPT folks.

[WPTCookie 0]

So we're pretty much all in agreement, the WPT *really* needs to change their final table structure.

Are you reading the same forum? We're definitely not in agreement.And, by the way, people from WPT watch these forums. However, they're not going to change our entire structure, set-up, and budget because a few guys on this forum think the WPT doesn't care about good poker. All opinions are valued, but much thought has already been put into the way the tournaments are run. It's going well. 8)

[ArseneLupin3 0]

So who are the five who voted for the faster structure?donkdonkdonk-adam