hand critiquing?

[GrinderMJ 0]

Ok, here's a hand I just played in the 24+2 tournament on Full Tilt, and I was hoping to get some feedback from you guys. I know this might be better off in strategy, but general is full of people, so there has to be some good poker players in here . Blinds are 20/40 and I have 1400 in chips, haven't played a hand yet. UTG is a player who has played what appears to be a smart thinking game, and with a rush has increased his stack to 5k already. He opens UTG for 80 which I interpret as a big pair or possibly ak/aq suited. I am MP2 and get 2 callers in front of me. I have 87 suited and with favorable pot/implied odds and the currently low blinds, I decide to call the min raise along with the button, and both blinds. This is now a very large pot. The flop comes 862 with two diamonds and while it's an ok flop for my hand, I know it's not the huge flop I was looking for. UTG made a bet of 160 into a pot of about 800 if i'm not mistaken and it is folded to me, and I make the call. The button after a long hesitation moves in his last 300 more, and all folds to UTG who smooth calls. Now here's my interpretaion of what has happened. I don't believe the button has a hand, simply a pot stuck hand with two overs or potentially a draw (flush/straight). If UTG had reraised the button bet I would have instamucked and moved on with my life, but his smooth call after hesitation as well led me to believe he simply had ak aq, or also maybe a draw. Thinking he was a smart player who could fold overcards in this spot, I tried to isolate with top pair and moved in another 1k approximately on top. Was this a smart well thought out play by myself, or was I simply a donkey who fell in love with top pair. Results will be posted after some critiquing. Thanks

[PAYforUSC 0]

i like the play considering all info given.

[Theraflu 1,035]

Do you think you can beat the button? The main pot is pretty big, and if you're just isolating to not win any chips, what's the point? Button could have anything, from a flush draw to overpair to a set, and the utg could have nut flush draw as well.overall, i'd say its too aggressive that early in the tourney, but that being said, it's a play i think i make too often.

[No_Neck 0]

I like the play but I have never made a final table, so take it for what it si worth.

[DanielSon 0]

Sounds a little donkeyish to me...the guy who moved in for his last 300 may have had over pair and as for the guy UTG, probably your read on him was good or he made a set and wanted to draw you into the pot also...

[DanielSon 0]

and the results are....

[GrinderMJ 0]

Sounds a little donkeyish to me...the guy who moved in for his last 300 may have had over pair and as for the guy UTG, probably your read on him was good or he made a set and wanted to draw you into the pot also...

No way button has overpair, he smooth called a raise with like 3 callers in front of him and 400-500 more, he is always reraising with overpair there, so I believe I have him beat.EDIT: In response to being suckered in by UTG, he played pocket kings on an underboard very very fast, and moved all in in an earlier hand, so I believe he would reraise isolate with big overpair.

[PAYforUSC 0]

Sounds a little donkeyish to me...the guy who moved in for his last 300 may have had over pair and as for the guy UTG, probably your read on him was good or he made a set and wanted to draw you into the pot also...

No way button has overpair, he smooth called a raise with like 3 callers in front of him and 400-500 more, he is always reraising with overpair there, so I believe I have him beat.EDIT: In response to being suckered in by UTG, he played pocket kings on an underboard very very fast, and moved all in in an earlier hand, so I believe he would reraise isolate with big overpair.

[DanielSon 0]

yeah that's how he plays overpair..but is UTG suckering you in with a set??

[PAYforUSC 0]

yeah that's how he plays overpair..but is UTG suckering you in with a set??

a feeler bet to see where he stands and i assume over cards. he has to call the all in after others fold because of pot odds hoping hero doesn't jam the pot.

[DanielSon 0]

That's how I would normally read the situation too...however that is how the situation was read by the original poster and I'm assuming if he was right, he wouldn't be posting this... therefore I must make my 2nd best guess...

[GrinderMJ 0]

Ok, with all the information I've given, is it worth risking my 1100 that I have left, and trying to isolate to win the big pot, or should I consider the possibility that UTG has a set or is simply calling with overcards, and muck and wiat for a better spot. It's very early in the tourney and the blinds are low and 1100 is enough to still play good poker. Are you guys following your read and pushing or playing conservative and folding?

[PAYforUSC 0]

Ok, with all the information I've given, is it worth risking my 1100 that I have left, and trying to isolate to win the big pot, or should I consider the possibility that UTG has a set or is simply calling with overcards, and muck and wiat for a better spot. It's very early in the tourney and the blinds are low and 1100 is enough to still play good poker. Are you guys following your read and pushing or playing conservative and folding?

i go with my read and get chips or go home

[DanielSon 0]

I also like to take risks early on and gain a lot of chips or go home. So I would go with the read and raise all in in that spot.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Ok, that seems like decent feedback, and for the curious the button had kq off suit (pot stuck overs :roll: ) and UTG had a very scared 99 that he couldn't lay down for 1k more. A set or 99 1010 are the only probable hands in my opinion that could play the hand that way, and he had 99 and busted me :(EDIT: UTG said nice bet and stalled until the last second which led me to think I was right about my read, and that he was gonna fold, which is what I wanted. Then at the last second he broke my heart and called with 99

[vonteego3 0]

I don't understand why you just called the flop bet. Were you hoping your hand would improve? I think on that flop, calling is the absolute worst option... raising the initial bet is better, but in my eyes nowhere near as good an option as folding, especially against a big stack. I'm admittedly a much better limit player, but.... why did you play 87 suited? You didn't mention it, but I'm assuming it wasn't diamonds... and I'm pretty sure you don't play 87s looking to pair one of your cards.

[GrinderMJ 0]

I don't understand why you just called the flop bet. Were you hoping your hand would improve? I think on that flop, calling is the absolute worst option... raising the initial bet is better, but in my eyes nowhere near as good an option as folding, especially against a big stack. I'm admittedly a much better limit player, but.... why did you play 87 suited? You didn't mention it, but I'm assuming it wasn't diamonds... and I'm pretty sure you don't play 87s looking to pair one of your cards.

That's a good question that I hadn't thought about. I called preflop, because of the large pot and implied odds as I already stated. I'm not sure calling was a good option on the flop now that you mentioned it. My reasoning after some thought was that I wasn't sure that UTG had a big pair, and that he was possibly on a steal with ak or other big cards. Keep in mind the pot is now laying me about 6 to 1 at this point with more potential callers behind. That's a good question that can be discussed vonteego, with 78 suited in that spot getting like 6 or 7 to one, are you folding, raising, calling? What's the best option and why? Again great question vonteego . Another question, what do you guys think of UTG's call in that spot with 9's with my squeeze play in effect keeping in mind I've got 1100 and UTG has about 5k at this point

[vonteego3 0]

Another question, what do you guys think of UTG's call in that spot with 9's with my squeeze play in effect keeping in mind I've got 1100 and UTG has about 5k at this point

I'd make the call with 99, I think. I'd then close my eyes or turn off my monitor and hope, because I think you have A8 and I'm afraid of the A on the river, or 2 diamonds and I know you're gonna hit the diamond.

[GrinderMJ 0]

Another question, what do you guys think of UTG's call in that spot with 9's with my squeeze play in effect keeping in mind I've got 1100 and UTG has about 5k at this point

I'd make the call with 99, I think. I'd then close my eyes or turn off my monitor and hope, because I think you have A8 and I'm afraid of the A on the river, or 2 diamonds and I know you're gonna hit the diamond.

You still think 99 is good here, given that I've played the hand exactly like a set or 1010 JJ would?

[vonteego3 0]

Another question, what do you guys think of UTG's call in that spot with 9's with my squeeze play in effect keeping in mind I've got 1100 and UTG has about 5k at this point

I'd make the call with 99, I think. I'd then close my eyes or turn off my monitor and hope, because I think you have A8 and I'm afraid of the A on the river, or 2 diamonds and I know you're gonna hit the diamond.

You still think 99 is good here, given that I've played the hand exactly like a set or 1010 JJ would?

I'm trying to think like a guy that would min-raise UTG and then underbet the flop would. Personally, I'd have made a bigger raise pre-flop and then bet the pot on this flop, so I don't know if I'd ever face this situation.

[zimmer4141 0]

I think the play is fine given the information. FullTilt tourneys start you with only 50BBs, and they go up quickly during the first hour. You need to gamble earlier than most other tourneys on FullTilt, and I think the isolation is a good play given the range UTG could have.

[mcpickl 0]

quick math, could be off a bit, but the guy with the 99 had to call 820 more, with his bigstack, to win 2800 in the pot. i think he had to call getting 3.5 to 1, especially since hes got a lot of chips

[copernicus 0]

I fold pre-flop with any raise, even a min-raise, that gets called with stacks this shallow. The problem with suited connectors in a raised pot is that if they flop a draw the pot is so big that a made hand is going to protect, which will drive out the other callers, and either your implied odds are gone or youre commiting your whole stack on a draw.TPFAP has a section "keeping the pot small", which, as I recall, addresses this issue though proably from the perspective of overcards.