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something to think about for you micro limit players


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Wow, first time I caught this. There is more bullshit in this thread from the OP than in any other thread ever.This is the best: if you ever get down 10 big bets in a limit game, maybe it isn't for you.I lose 10 big bets logging on. I just lost 10 big bets and I'm not even playing.

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ONE hand means nothing' date=' you're a moron if you think this one hand means low limits isn't beatable. He has 2 outs, or about a 10% chance. So for every .30 or whatever you lost this hand you will win 9X that amount in the long run. Your post actually does a great job of showing why micro's are so easily beatable, thanks.[/quote']
Yes you would think that but think about this. Your basing it as if it heads up and its only me and another person. What your NOT understanding is that in Micro Limit's your not playing against one person. Yes, your going to say that happens on every level but not as much as it happens on micro. When you have four or five other people consistently fishing through a hand it becomes tough for your hand to hold up. Think about if im holding aces before the flop. Well making my two cent raise 5 or 6 people are still going to call. Now imagine the flop. Someone hits top pair their staying. Someone makes a gutshot straight draw, well, its micro im staying. Someone has low pair with a backdoor flush draw..hes staying. Someone makes middle pair, hes staying. Thats how it goes in micro. People dont care what they have, they have something, thats all that matters. I beg you to go try playing at a 1/2 cent or 2/4 cent table even 10/25 or 25/50 is sorta like that too. Its a crapshoot thats all it has become down there. I think, I mean I could be wrong and to most of you I probably am, that there is no money to be made or very little. I found when i moved up to 25/50 I was making more money and winning more pots. People would actually FOLD and that just doesn't happen in micro limits. Again I could be wrong but this is my wholesome opinion.
More people calling you down means bigger pots, I've won 50BB pots at micro-limits. That's not going to happen at 10/20 but it will at .10/.20.So since more people are calling you down you don't have to win as many pots to show a profit. Just think about it, math doesn't lie. If you have 5 people calling a bet on the turn and you have a 25% chance of holding up it is a profitable play in the long run. I wish every table played like a .05/.10 table, I'd be in heaven.
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Please pick up Small Stakes Hold Em by David Slansky, Ed Miller, and Mason Malmuth.Here is a direct quote from the chapter Where does the money come from:"Every cent of your long term profit playing poker comes from exploiting your opponents' errors and predictable tendencies.  The more numerous and egregious their errors, the more money you can make.  Some small stakes players who struggle to beat their game think they could do better if they moved to a higher limit.  If only I played in a game where people respected my raises, I could be a big winner.  This notion, appealing to many harried players, is absurd."Money comes from exploiting mistakes.  There is always more potential for profit in games where your opponents make frequent errors.  You are absolutley wrong to think that you can make more money at higher limits.  You have no fundamental concept of the theory of poker.  This is common for young kids who have seen poker on TV, think it looks easy, and are part of the poker wave that begain at the 2003 WSOP.  If you cannot beat a lower limit where the players are generally worse, you will simply be unable to beat a higher limit where the players are generally better.  You may be on a winning streak, but you will lose in the long run.
Who do you think you are bringing that SSHE hoo-doo voo-doo in here?
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I guess you don't understand learning from mistakes or something... When you lose a hand, you're supposed to learn from it. The day I lose $1k at the $10/$20 is the day I quit playing poker. Which fortunately for me, doesn't seem to be any time soon.
I've got this bookmarked
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I guess you don't understand learning from mistakes or something... When you lose a hand, you're supposed to learn from it. The day I lose $1k at the $10/$20 is the day I quit playing poker. Which fortunately for me, doesn't seem to be any time soon.
I've got this bookmarked
if this ass-tard has actually ever played $10/20, you can call me johnny chan.
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I think the point I was trying to get across was simply... if you feel you're a good micro limit player... You should make an investment into playing a higher level. Because not only is the competition virtually the same, but people will actually fold bad hands preflop/on the flop.
That statement makes me believe that you don't full understand poker. You want people to call with bad hands preflop and post flop. That's how you make money.
Okay, and why would I want to take advice from the guy who is living with his mom when he's almost 30?
Duuude...step BACK. Theredpill has my respect.(No Sw)
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I haven't been playing much but I managed to get some hands in and I'm up $260 from the last time I posted. Which isn't much, I know.Okay I think I need to clear some things up... First of all, okay my advice about everyone taking $1k and playing $10/$20 was bad. I wasn't thinking clearly. It's bad because not everyone is capable of winning that way, and the table selection is extremely important.I'm almost knocked off my feet by people saying that $1000 isn't enough to sit down with at $10/$20. Maybe it's because 90% of the time, all the people sitting at my table have like $400 or less. Sometimes all of the people put together couldn't bust me of $1000.I'll restate that I'm not playing with my entire bankroll. My bankroll is not $1000. It's far enough above it to where I'm not going to hurt badly from losing it.I think the point I was trying to get across was simply... if you feel you're a good micro limit player... You should make an investment into playing a higher level. Because not only is the competition virtually the same, but people will actually fold bad hands preflop/on the flop.The profit in micro limit is not enough to do anything with... Except for build up... It's a waste of time. Time = Money. It would be simpler to just pull more money from somewhere else and play a higher limit where the money is actually decent. What are you going to do after playing micro limit for a year +? Move up. Right? I'm just saying that it's kind of dumb to play micro as your source of bankroll income, because it's a huge waste of time.Sure you can say you're getting in practice and seeing more hands, but experience means nothing if you're playing for nickels and dimes. You still don't have any experience at the higher level. Either way you're going to have to jump into the adult pool and take off the floaties.
I disagree with you . My arguement is not quite the same as many on here would make. I assure you, I am an adult. I am not a serious poker player though. I enjoy this game a lot. I enjoy the challenge of trying to improve my game.....some would say not a difficult task based on my low skill level :oops: . Making a very modest profit at microlimits is just fine by me. My family is comforably middle class, which is to say me taking a $100 investment to see what I can build from it is entertainment. If I were to build up a bankroll of $20,000, I still would not be comfortable "playing" with $1000 of it at 10/20. $1000 is still a nice chunk of change......I could redecorate a room, pay for a season of my son's footbal expenses, pay for a weekend away somewhere. I would seriously be pissed at myself if I ever "wasted" $1000 on one losing session of poker.Your approach worked for you. That's fine. I think it is a mistake to presume to tell others what to do. You can't make fun of people who are either recreational players (like myself) or people who are serious about building their bankroll the conservative way. Many posters on here are at a comfortable spot in life where if they lost their bankroll it would not be the end of the world. There are also many who can not take that kind of risk. Im afraid there are even more who might foolishly overextend themselves, "borrowing" from living expenses or credit to take too much risk. It worked for you......that does not mean it's a great idea for everyone. Can't you understand that ?
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I guess you don't understand learning from mistakes or something... When you lose a hand, you're supposed to learn from it. The day I lose $1k at the $10/$20 is the day I quit playing poker. Which fortunately for me, doesn't seem to be any time soon.
I've got this bookmarked
if this ass-tard has actually ever played $10/20, you can call me johnny chan.
hey johnny...this guy played once.. up $80. TP/MM etc etc
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I haven't been playing much but I managed to get some hands in and I'm up $260 from the last time I posted. Which isn't much, I know.Okay I think I need to clear some things up... First of all, okay my advice about everyone taking $1k and playing $10/$20 was bad. I wasn't thinking clearly. It's bad because not everyone is capable of winning that way, and the table selection is extremely important.I'm almost knocked off my feet by people saying that $1000 isn't enough to sit down with at $10/$20. Maybe it's because 90% of the time, all the people sitting at my table have like $400 or less. Sometimes all of the people put together couldn't bust me of $1000.I'll restate that I'm not playing with my entire bankroll. My bankroll is not $1000. It's far enough above it to where I'm not going to hurt badly from losing it.I think the point I was trying to get across was simply... if you feel you're a good micro limit player... You should make an investment into playing a higher level. Because not only is the competition virtually the same, but people will actually fold bad hands preflop/on the flop.The profit in micro limit is not enough to do anything with... Except for build up... It's a waste of time. Time = Money. It would be simpler to just pull more money from somewhere else and play a higher limit where the money is actually decent. What are you going to do after playing micro limit for a year +? Move up. Right? I'm just saying that it's kind of dumb to play micro as your source of bankroll income, because it's a huge waste of time.Sure you can say you're getting in practice and seeing more hands, but experience means nothing if you're playing for nickels and dimes. You still don't have any experience at the higher level. Either way you're going to have to jump into the adult pool and take off the floaties.
You really are an idiot. Wow.
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At the risk of a serious flaming I will post my $.02 (hey I'm Canadian its cold up here). I can sympathize a bit with the low limit suckouts as I and my couple buddies have been runnning into the same thing at our local B & M. We play $3/$6 or $4/$8 and have had this running discussion of at least moving to $1/$2 no limit as we are having a bit of trouble with those that stay in turn/river with low out possibility hands and hitting them. We are thinking that a raise of $3 to $6 or $6 to $12 isn't enough to back someone away from a hand but under no limit you can put enough pressure and money on the line to make people think twice. The big difference and I guess you would call it variance is that we aren't playing enough hands to have the obvious happen. Play with low probability hands and you will lose so if I play against a player(s) that plays that way I will win in the long run. We go to the casino maybe once a month so we just aren't putting in the time to have the cards swing our way. We usually go home with a few bucks in our pockets but more than a few good hands have been cracked with a two outer on the river.I can see both sides but I do think that in the long term good playing skills will win out over lucky cards but short term anyone can get on a lucky run and make a few bucks. Micro or big limit shouldn't be any different.No??

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I guess you don't understand learning from mistakes or something... When you lose a hand, you're supposed to learn from it. The day I lose $1k at the $10/$20 is the day I quit playing poker. Which fortunately for me, doesn't seem to be any time soon.
I've got this bookmarked
50BB in one day. I think that has happened to every winning player at some point. I'm glad I didn't quit the day I lost 50BB.
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Up $700 from yesterday.edit: though about $300 was from 5/10 because the 10/20 tables were either full or empty
limit or no limit tables?i don't remember what u posted u were playing at.
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why didn't i read this thread earlier?i moved all my BR to UB tonight to play in the 300/600 game. man those guys sure love folding their blinds. i made $1200 and quit. expect to do the same every day this month.

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he must be the guy that goes table to table goes all in doubles up and leaves...  Lets see some hand histories... More than 10k hands... Than we will let you post again.. Until then.. "Lock it up"
Um, you can't go all in with $1000 in 10/20 limit holdem. Nice assumption though, you really thought that out well.I usually only leave after a couple hours of playing, or if I'm up 40bb or more during the session. Which at that level would be $1800 total.Actually I think I've read somewhere that you should leave a table if you're 40bb down or up... Unless the table is just really juicy. Maybe I misread?I'm beginning to think my winning is due to table selection though. I rarely play at a table with people who have $1000 or more, and like I said, sometimes the whole table put together wouldn't equal my $1000.I'm sure you'd rather I post when I "bust" because that way you don't have to see me posting winnings every day. That way you either get to laugh at me when I bust months from now (unlikely) or never have to hear about me winning again. Nice to see how friendly people are here.I've been a winning player for over a year and I will continue to be a winning player. Regardless of what anyone else thinks.
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You sound like just about every losing player I know. I can't win at the low limits, because the players are too bad. There's no point playing my strong hands since people will chase and hit their miracles anyways. Any 2 can win, yadayada and so on and so on.If you can't beat a low limit game, you either just plain suck(more than likely), are inexperienced and new to the game or you haven't made the adjustments neccessary to beat these games. You post your winnings like anyone cares, newsflash nobody does. Of course your not going to post here if you go broke or you'll be dellusionable about it. Most likely, you'll start blaming bad luck when you lose like all the other losing players I know.I have no problem with you taking your own shots with no bankroll backing, but to suggest it to others is just stupid. It's not the right way to play, never has been and never will be. Donkeys go on rushes too, I have a friend that has run up 10k from 1k in less than a month several times, does that make him a good player? I dont think so, he's probably the worst player I've ever seen try to play 50/100. Short term results can make the worst player in the world look good, but poker is a long run game. 1 month, 6 months, even a year in the scheme of things is nothing. Then again if there weren't people like yourself out there, games at 10/20 would suck pretty bad. We simply wouldn't be able to make a living without players like yourself who take shots at a game under bankrolled and most likely outclassed as well.

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Konidias seems confident.It is possible(though unlikely) that by table selection, feel, intuition etc, you are able to make a profit on 10/20 tables.But you should be aware that only by continuing to find weak players will you win without understanding the full fundamentals of the game. You should not play everybody at 10/20 just because you usually win there. If you sit down with better players who play there who are aggressive and will pressure you, then you may find yourself unable to cope with the level of play.Also be aware that astute players with software like pokertracker etc. will identify you and change their play, so that they will play better against you.

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Konidias seems confident.It is possible(though unlikely) that by table selection, feel, intuition etc, you are able to make a profit on 10/20 tables.But you should be aware that only by continuing to find weak players will you win without understanding the full fundamentals of the game. You should not play everybody at 10/20 just because you usually win there. If you sit down with better players who play there who are aggressive and will pressure you, then you may find yourself unable to cope with the level of play.Also be aware that astute players with software like pokertracker etc. will identify you and change their play, so that they will play better against you.
Thank you for at least having something nice to say and giving good advice.It's true that I seem to be hunting weaker players. I feel I have a pretty good game though. I've won large MTT's. I've won consistently at NL ring games. I've won consistently at NL sit&go's ranging from $10 to $200 buy-ins.It upsets me when people call me a losing player and makes me want to defend myself but I know that it's no use and I can't change anyone's mind, especially the narrowminded.I vary my play up a lot and I try to be hard to read. I'm not intimidated by aggressive players and can handle the pressure pretty well. Right now I'm more concerned about making money and less concerned about playing top players and proving I'm better.Thanks for the advice though.
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Am I still supposed to be thinking about this? Because after all this time I can't figure out why I don't want people chasing me to the river with worse hands than mine.Is there a Cliff Notes version I can check out? Would that be available at a local bookstore? Or could I order it off the Internet?

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I think too many people are misunderstanding the OP.1.) He is NOT playing 10/20 with a $1k br. He is saying that he buys in for $1k, which is an insignificant part of his br.2.) He feels he can make a larger profit at higher limits. He has played at small stakes, not necessarily as a losing player, but thinks he can win more at higher stakes, and won't have as many suckouts.3.) Table selection is the key. He's playing at tables with crappy players, and not a lot of good players.GL to OP. Have fun playing 10/20.I'll keep grinding out micro-limits where I can actually win.

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I think the point I was trying to get across was simply... if you feel you're a good micro limit player... You should make an investment into playing a higher level. Because not only is the competition virtually the same, but people will actually fold bad hands preflop/on the flop.
That statement makes me believe that you don't full understand poker. You want people to call with bad hands preflop and post flop. That's how you make money.
this is the first redpill post that I agree with, and enjoyed reading...well done sir.
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Am I still supposed to be thinking about this?  Because after all this time I can't figure out why I don't want people chasing me to the river with worse hands than mine.Is there a Cliff Notes version I can check out?  Would that be available at a local bookstore?  Or could I order it off the Internet?
If nobody is taking the game seriously at micro limit, they will play any 2 cards. If you're playing top starting hands and everyone else is playing whatever they get, then you will be at the disadvantage.You have AA, some other person has J10 offsuit, some other person has 76 suited, some other person has K7, some other person has A2. Do you really think you're going to win that pot? I'm not a big math guy but I think your odds of AA holding up there are pretty terrible.Even if you flop a set you're going to get someone hitting their straight or flush on you with two cards to come. The more people chasing, the more people will hit their draws, the more people will suck out on you.Poker is a game of relativity. Most micro/low limit players are playing an entirely different game than you. I can almost guarantee that the people who are successful at micro/low limit are people who play just about any two cards. Most people won't admit that, but I think it's true.
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