is daniel crossing the line?

[digitalmonkey 929]

Daniel has pwned Nemo (dreamclown's new name I gave him) in the last few matches, but he has also posted a lot of info as to why he is pwning him. My question is do you think Daniel is crossing the antagonize/educate line? That is, is he tapping the glass? Is he offering Nemo too much info when he talks about his lack of preflop folding and his unwillingness to 3 bet? I know Daniel is able to adapt his game; it's what makes him one of the best at what he does, but is he taking away some of his advantage by providing Nemo with this advice/analysis? It is obvious that Nemo is stubborn and does not seem willing to change his style, but if he is somehow able to put his ego away and listen to Daniel's analysis, he may be able to turn the outcome of these matches in his favour.And yes, the title of this thread is intentionally ambiguous.

[JBradburn6 0]

I thought the same thing, but I think Dreamclown is too stubborn to make good use of what DN says in his blog. The guy's ego will get in the way of listening to good advice/critiques.

[pokerplayer24 0]

It doesnt take much of a poker player to realize the mistakes the DC is making. I'm sure players who are on his side in this heads up could tell him the same things. Problem for DC is that hes played this way all along and made a good deal of $ doing it. So hes not going to change it now.

[BigDawgBuuck 0]

I think that eventually, (maybe in a few years), he'll realize those big flaws in his play. However, I think he'll go broke before that...

[renaedawn 1]

Here's the question that has been puzzling me. If after watching this guy it's so easy to figure out how predictable he is, and it is cause even a newbie fish like me can figure out what he's doing every hand, then how has this guy been able to build such a bankroll and such a reputation for being "the sickest online limit player ever"? If we can figure it out, why hasn't anybody else?

[Jeff 0]

Here's the question that has been puzzling me.  If after watching this guy it's so easy to figure out how predictable he is, and it is cause even a newbie fish like me can figure out what he's doing every hand, then how has this guy been able to build such a bankroll and such a reputation for being "the sickest online limit player ever"?  If we can figure it out, why hasn't anybody else?

because when it is coming at you at 100 MPH for 500/1000 this super agressiveness throws people off. We would not have been able to figure it out sitting opposite to him at the table.

[Whiskey16 1]

Here's the question that has been puzzling me.  If after watching this guy it's so easy to figure out how predictable he is, and it is cause even a newbie fish like me can figure out what he's doing every hand, then how has this guy been able to build such a bankroll and such a reputation for being "the sickest online limit player ever"?  If we can figure it out, why hasn't anybody else?

I think we're being a bit naive to say we've "figured it out." I think there are a lot of hands we've seen shown down where we're not surprised by the cards that are turned up, but the majority of the hands they play aren't shown down. It's also easier for us to say we've picked up on things DC is doing while we're sitting and watching, but how many of us have built the bankroll to sit at that level and "take advantage" of these perceived flaws, and how many of us could do it at the moment we'd have to click the button.Could eveyone withstand the uber aggressiveness he plays with? There are a lot of very successful internet pros who appear not to wan to play him, or each other very often. There are obviously a lot of people giving money away on the internet who don't have a lot of poker sense, and these guys have figured a way to take advantage of that. They're doing something right.

[Fluffdog87 2]

When DN is keeping it real.

[Suited_Up 2]

Here's the question that has been puzzling me.  If after watching this guy it's so easy to figure out how predictable he is, and it is cause even a newbie fish like me can figure out what he's doing every hand, then how has this guy been able to build such a bankroll and such a reputation for being "the sickest online limit player ever"?  If we can figure it out, why hasn't anybody else?

because when it is coming at you at 100 MPH for 500/1000 this super agressiveness throws people off. We would not have been able to figure it out sitting opposite to him at the table.

But you can watch him play before you would play him yourself, and it didn't take me long to figure all of this out either. I agree with Renae, because it seems glaringly obvious he's got some holes, and I find it hard to believe that other high stakes players are incapable of taking advantage of that. I would think that if you're playing at a level that high, that you would have the skill necessary to adapt to a player very quickly, the same way Daniel is doing. And to answer the original question... I do think if it were me, that I'd have kept more info to myself, but it's fully possible that there's another level of thinking behind what he's doing, and maybe Daniel is saying everything he is saying for a reason, and trying to mold him into an even more predictable player. He's obviously got him tilting, but if he can dicate his play as well, it will only get easier.

[Suited_Up 2]

p.s. There's my smart post of the day, don't get used to it, lol.

[speedz99 145]

Daniel isn't stupid. He knows what info he is giving away, and how to use it.It's like table talk and showing bluffs, something that DN obviously enjoys. You give away info every time you speak, but you know what they know what you know what they know...and so on. It all depends on who is thinking at the higher lever. That's where I think DN has the edge...not in number of hands played at HU LHE, but at the mental game of changing gears, using information, etc.But I've been wrong before...once.

[TML28 0]

Here is the crock of it.Daniel is a psychological genius if my assumptions are correct.Tell the guy (Nemo) everything he is doing wrong like the 3 betting, (that will net DN a lot more $ too) get Nemo to change his style slightly. This allows DN to gain an even greater advantage. Nemo will eventually go to his usual tactics as these are ingrained in him, DN is still able to exploit his style.

[Staynerjohn 0]

Here is the crock of it.Daniel is a psychological genius if my assumptions are correct.Tell the guy (Nemo) everything he is doing wrong like the 3 betting, (that will net DN a lot more $ too) get Nemo to change his style slightly.  This allows DN to gain an even greater advantage.   Nemo will eventually go to his usual tactics as these are ingrained in him, DN is still able to exploit his style.

Exactly...I believe that if you get your opponent thinking that he has to change his game to something he is not familiar with +EV HUGESo now the DOUCHECLOWN will be playing with a new playbook...one that DN has been playing for years...say goodbye to the bankroll and hello to .50/1.00 on PartyPoker!!!Hi, my name is DOUCHECLOWN, and I'm a DOUCHEAHOLIC'you play with the bull, and sometimes you get the horns'

[proeliator 0]

Daniel has pwned Nemo (dreamclown's new name I gave him) in the last few matches, but he has also posted a lot of info as to why he is pwning him. My question is do you think Daniel is crossing the antagonize/educate line? That is, is he tapping the glass? Is he offering Nemo too much info when he talks about his lack of preflop folding and his unwillingness to 3 bet? I know Daniel is able to adapt his game; it's what makes him one of the best at what he does, but is he taking away some of his advantage by providing Nemo with this advice/analysis? It is obvious that Nemo is stubborn and does not seem willing to change his style, but if he is somehow able to put his ego away and listen to Daniel's analysis, he may be able to turn the outcome of these matches in his favour.And yes, the title of this thread is intentionally ambiguous.

I think Daniel would like for Clown to take his advise. It would only confuse clown and make him lose even more. Daniel is absolutley toying with this kid and teaching him a hard lesson. And we are all geting to watch this for free. What a country

[milbucksfans 0]

I think Daniel is being very honest when he says that no matter what advice or wisdom he imparts to Dreamcast, the guy is just not going to follow it. I think he feels completely secure in calling it just the way he sees it cuz the kid will never change. DC doesn't respect DN in the least, why would he ever follow his advice? I do agree that if DC were to try to change his style now he would be a fish out of water (pun intended), and would just donk off even more $ to DN and maybe that's part of DN's goal. But really, I think Daniel's just telling it like it is because he knows no harm will come of it. I'm sure he would never do this to an opponent that respects him and is willing to develop his game beyond the predictable (and semi-effective) level it is now at.

[SavageHenry 0]

blind bet bot aggression works very well on scared money, honestly i think DC's approach is great against 99 percent of the online player you'll find. I don't think a lot of peopel have the intestinal fortitude and bankroll to handle that constant barrage of betting and raising at 500-1k a pop. There is no easy counter to the style. It picks up the dead money then puts the dead money to use, semi-bluffing, bluff raising and bludgeoning you over the head. However Daniel is definitely a great player and i'm not sure what amount of money would make him uncomfortable but i know its not 500-1k if he can fade the big game on regular basis.

[kerplunk 0]

I wouldn't be too worried for Daniel. He hasn't revealed anything about DC's play that numerous others hadn't noticed previously (never fold preflop, never 3bet, etc). And, unless I've missed a key post, Daniel doesn't seem to be giving a great deal of detail as to his particular strategy to combat DC's style, so he's not really giving away any secrets.As to whether all Daniel's talk will get DC to wise up and change his style, well, Dreamclown's in a bit of a bind on that front. First off, if he did change his fundamental approah, it would be glaringly obvious--how could you not notice when someone who never used to fold/3bet preflop starts folding/3betting? A fundamental change would be easy to spot, and thus easy to adjust to. But then, it's unlikely that DC will change his style for two reasons. First, yes, stubborness plays a part. Dreamclown really does believe in the system he's playing. Why wouldn't he after all the success he's had with it? If he continues to lose, he will make it more and more of a personal crusade to "prove" the merit of his style. Daniel's comments won't make him more apt to change; if anything, it'll make him want to stick to his style all the more.The second reason why it's unlikely he'll change is that part of DC's usual advantage in playing his style is that he's much more experienced with it than his opponent, so he's forcing them to play a style they aren't used to. If he changes his style and plays more traditionally, he gives up that advantage. His results (at least initially) would probably suffer.

[JSHamm 9]

I think Daniel is being very honest when he says that no matter what advice or wisdom he imparts to Dreamcast

Got Sonic on your mind? hmmmm...burgers.....

[GrinderMJ 0]

Yes, you guys have figured out dreamclown and alllllllllllllllllllllll the holes in his game. It was so easy too, you guys rock. Be realistic people, you have no clue what an effective heads up style is, and these matches don't prove anything, as they are very sh0rt games. Daniel has done well so far, but what do you guys say when DC logs a huge winning session, what about the holes in his game then? I don't think anyone here (myself included) knows enough about high stakes HU limit hold em to find holes in the game of the best limit player on pokerroom. Be real, and stop with all the stupid dish cat and dork carrot name calling, that couldn't be gayer.

[Smasharoo 0]

It's called variance, kids.They haven't played enough hands to determine if either has an edge yet.Daniel may be destroying the kid, and he may be catching cards. It's way, way, way too early to tell.good luck.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Yes, you guys have figured out dreamclown and alllllllllllllllllllllll the holes in his game. It was so easy too, you guys rock. Be realistic people, you have no clue what an effective heads up style is, and these matches don't prove anything, as they are very sh0rt games. Daniel has done well so far, but what do you guys say when DC logs a huge winning session, what about the holes in his game then? I don't think anyone here (myself included) knows enough about high stakes HU limit hold em to find holes in the game of the best limit player on pokerroom. Be real, and stop with all the stupid dish cat and dork carrot name calling, that couldn't be gayer.

It seems that you are grouping everyone together. Where did I say I have figured out anything? You have admitted that you yourself probably don't know enough about high stakes HU limit hold'em to find holes in Nemo's game but why are you so narrowminded and assume that nobody else is able to see any holes? Is it not possible that another FCP member knows more about high stakes HU limit hold'em than you?And as for being real; Dreamclown is an excellent high stakes HU limit hold'em player. He would have to be to accumulate the winnings he has. However, the bottom line is he started trash talking right from the start about how he was gonna bust Daniel and is now down $70,000. And he still talks trash. :? He is out of his league here and his ego is too big for him to admit it. Personally, I have no stake in the matter. I am, however, enjoying watching Daniel shear the sheep with the big mouth!

[Staynerjohn 0]

blind bet bot aggression works very well on scared money, honestly i think DC's approach is great against 99 percent of the online player you'll find. I don't think a lot of peopel have the intestinal fortitude and bankroll to handle that constant barrage of betting and raising at 500-1k a pop. There is no easy counter to the style. It picks up the dead money then puts the dead money to use, semi-bluffing, bluff raising and bludgeoning you over the head. However Daniel is definitely a great player and i'm not sure what amount of money would make him uncomfortable but i know its not 500-1k if he can fade the big game on regular basis.

what do you mean there is no easy counter to this style of play..you encounter this style of play at many levels...the only difference is the blind levels...if the levels worry you, then don't play them...counter ultra-aggression with the same exact aggression and you will be surprised with your results...punch a bully in the mouth once and watch their reaction...they back down, and YOU have the edge

[Fullhouse7 0]

4 games and ppl taking sides---please. A total of 4 1/2 hours of play!!! Long term, I think DN wins, but presently, way to early to tell. Variance, enuf said.Fullhouse7

[digitalmonkey 929]

4 games and ppl taking sides---please. A total of 4 1/2 hours of play!!! Long term, I think DN wins, but presently, way to early to tell. Variance, enuf said.Fullhouse7

I think that's what most of us are saying!

[GrinderMJ 0]

Yes, you guys have figured out dreamclown and alllllllllllllllllllllll the holes in his game. It was so easy too, you guys rock. Be realistic people, you have no clue what an effective heads up style is, and these matches don't prove anything, as they are very sh0rt games. Daniel has done well so far, but what do you guys say when DC logs a huge winning session, what about the holes in his game then? I don't think anyone here (myself included) knows enough about high stakes HU limit hold em to find holes in the game of the best limit player on pokerroom. Be real, and stop with all the stupid dish cat and dork carrot name calling, that couldn't be gayer.

It seems that you are grouping everyone together. Where did I say I have figured out anything? You have admitted that you yourself probably don't know enough about high stakes HU limit hold'em to find holes in Nemo's game but why are you so narrowminded and assume that nobody else is able to see any holes? Is it not possible that another FCP member knows more about high stakes HU limit hold'em than you?And as for being real; Dreamclown is an excellent high stakes HU limit hold'em player. He would have to be to accumulate the winnings he has. However, the bottom line is he started trash talking right from the start about how he was gonna bust Daniel and is now down $70,000. And he still talks trash. :? He is out of his league here and his ego is too big for him to admit it. Personally, I have no stake in the matter. I am, however, enjoying watching Daniel shear the sheep with the big mouth!

I didn't mean specifically you or anyone, but everytime I come to FCP now, all I see is threads and posts about how DN is destroying this guy and about how he's not good, and to me it seems like people need a reality check. The reason I said most people don't know about high stakes HU limit hold em, is because we have almost no big limit players on this site besides specbrad and a few others if i'm not mistaken. I could be wrong, and I would love to hear the opinion of a heads up limit hold em specialist on this match. It just seems to me people need to slow down, since they haven't played much at all, and try to look at things objectively even though they are all DN fans.