set play

[econ_tim 0]

$2/$4 ring FCPPreflop: econ_tim is SB with 5 5 4 folds, MP limps, CO raises, Button fold, econ_tim semi cold calls, BB folds, MP calls.Flop: (7 SB) K J 5 econ_tim .... what is your plan?i'll post the rest of the hand with my thoughts after some responses.no good reads, but i'm pretty sure CO bets this flop if checked to.

[screech 0]

Good flop for you. It will most likely have connected with CO.I would bet, then make my next decision based on what CO or MP did, and based on how they play.

[Canada 0]

Bet. Flop with high cards, straight and flush draws. There will be a lot of calling/raising from the villains

[Actuary 3]

I like SnG a lot, but this board hits lots of hands and you can get 4 bets in on the flop often. While the turn could hurt action.Lead flop to trap limper.3-bet/call cap.Lead Turn, depending on Turn card, number of players left ,and flop action.Generally 3 bet 3way alwaysI s & g HU on turn and river if comes*** read replies ****

[oceansize 0]

i actually think check/raise because if you check CO will definitely bet it (as the leading raiser last action)....what i forsee if you check is that MP checks also, CO bets, you raise, now MP is once again looking at two bets to cold call, it might rush him out and leaving CO with a hand that either hit or has draws, and by hitting of course i'm thinking a pair of kings with a good kicker, pair of jacks with a good kicker, or four card str8/flush.getting two bets in now will help i think because it could make MP fold out what ever loose kinda pair drawing hand he holds. eliminates one threat. CO could come over the top of you, but that's alright, you get some kind of narrower bead on him as it should almost confirm suspicions that he has paired the board rather than made a drawing hand. If he calls you go into the turn fairly confident that your ahead.if he calls you can also act strongly on the turn and be sure he will call rather than force the extra bet. put him into a position where he will know he will not be able to buy a free card and be afraid to bet after you.that's about what I would do actually.Los

[Actuary 3]

Ocean:we have a monster.the pot is not bigwe want to build potwe don't have to make eliminating opponents our goal.we should lead out on flop.imo.

[econ_tim 0]

$2/$4 ring FCPPreflop: econ_tim is SB with 5 5 4 folds, MP limps, CO raises, Button fold, econ_tim semi cold calls, BB folds, MP calls.Flop: (7 SB) K J 5 econ_tim checks, MP checks, Button bets, MP cold calls, Button calls.Turn: (6.5 BB) 4 econ_tim bets, MP folds, Button calls.River: (8.5 BB) T econ_tim bets, Button calls.That's how I played the hand.On this flop, we have a very strong hand, but ther are plenty of ways our opponents could improve to beat us. If our opponents are drawing dead or slim, then there are plenty of turn cards that could kill the action. So it is important to get as much money in on the flop as possible.(Note that with sets on less coordinated boards, it is often a good idea to sacrifice some SBs on the flop to get more BBs on the turn. Although that is usually hard to do OOP).I'm still unsure what line gets the most bets in on average. If I bet, then maybe someone will raise me and I can three bet. I don't have great reads, but the villains don't seem particularly aggro. It is one thing to autobet a flop after raising preflop, but a lot of bad players will just call this flop with hands they should raise.If I check/raise, then I can make sure it is at least two bets on the flop. One thing to worry about is eliminating MP. I think he'll cold call on this flop with most hands that he would call one bet with. And a c/r still gives the Button the chance to 3-bet something like AK.So my flop plan is this: bet vs. aggro opponents and very passive opponents who would check behind on this flop. C/R vs calling stations when the Button will predictably bet the flop but won't raise very often.

[joeychestnut 0]

I think betting out here everytime is a must. With that flop there is a good chance CO raises you and you then have a chance to three bet it. The check/raise, although making it two bets cold to MP, would not knock out any flush draw and possible not even an open ended straight draw. (also if MP sticks around I feel he has a better chance to have hit this flop with either kq, aj, or hopefully even kj then with a really big draw)Therefore I say we bet and hope to three bet this flop and then re-evaluate the turn. HU with either I am playing aggressive the whole way. A club may slow me down a little HU, but three way im done betting when it hits most likley.

[Briguy 0]

I prefer bet/3-bet as well.You know where the initial bet will come from (immediately on your right). You have a monster. Flush draws (and the unlikely OESD) will be correct to call 2-cold after you check-raise. The only gutshots you could fold are AQ or AT, which seem like unlikely holdings for limpers, or T9 which may be possible. So, with the exception of T9, the check-raise will chase away hands you want calling (mid PP with 2 outs, top pair/2nd pair who could call one bet while drawing almost dead). On the flop the check-raise will fail to fold the strongest draws, but will scare off the weak draws/dead hands that you want to encourage along into the big streets.And now that I've repeated joeychestnut, I shall retire to the server room. Good day all.

[oceansize 0]

Ocean:we have a monster.the pot is not bigwe want to build potwe don't have to make eliminating opponents our goal.we should lead out on flop.imo.

Well, yeah and niegh. I mean, trips are solid most times, but that board opens a lot of avenues for defeat if you slow play the trips. Not to mention that because that board is so scary getting an extra bet in now might be your best option because for one, you know you can get it in. You may not be able to check raise from the turn on in. The extra bet on the flop is almost garunteed. Bet/re-raising the flop is not always something you can plan on. Of the information gathered, we know he will bet the flop if no one represents, we do not know that he will raise if you open up strong (thus allowing your three bet).And from the looks of it he played it the way I described I would have.

[screech 0]

On this flop, we have a very strong hand, but ther are plenty of ways our opponents could improve to beat us. If our opponents are drawing dead or slim, then there are plenty of turn cards that could kill the action. So it is important to get as much money in on the flop as possible.

Wouldn't a bet/3-bet be best then?It seems like a c/r really kills the action here.

I'm still unsure what line gets the most bets in on average. If I bet, then maybe someone will raise me and I can three bet.

This is defeintly the way to go given the flop texture. If they don't seem particularly aggressive, go ahead and 3-bet the flop if you get raised. If button is aggressive, I would just call the flop raise and bet/3-bet the turn.

[econ_tim 0]

Wouldn't a bet/3-bet be best then?

Yes. Of course i would bet/3-bet if I know button will raise. The rub is that I don't think he is raising every time and maybe not even most of the time. Think about how bad non-LAG players play their marginal hands or even their strong draws.

[screech 0]

Wouldn't a bet/3-bet be best then?

Yes. Of course i would bet/3-bet if I know button will raise. The rub is that I don't think he is raising every time and maybe not even most of the time. Think about how bad non-LAG players play their marginal hands or even their strong draws.

Yes, but this board connects with his hand a very strong amount of the time.Let's say you c/r, than you have to face the other player with 2 cold. He'll usually fold, then you win 2 bets. On the turn, you get 1. If you bet, there's a better chance that the player in between will call the flop and turn.

[Guest Zach6668]

Ocean:we have a monster.the pot is not bigwe want to build potwe don't have to make eliminating opponents our goal.we should lead out on flop.imo.

I always lead here, especially with the PFR being last to act, we can build a monster pot here.

[Actuary 3]

Ocean:we have a monster.the pot is not bigwe want to build potwe don't have to make eliminating opponents our goal.we should lead out on flop.imo.

I always lead here, especially with the PFR being last to act, we can build a monster pot here.

AINEC.LIMJetc.

[RISEorFall 0]

I mean, trips are solid most times, but that board opens a lot of avenues for defeat if you slow play the trips.

How is betting out slowplaying? Also, why would you want to check and risk it getting checked through and giving a free card? It's not 100% that CO bets if checked to, and that would suck. CO also doesnt have to raise to build a pot if we bet out, but if he does all the better.

[Guest Zach6668]

Ocean:we have a monster.the pot is not bigwe want to build potwe don't have to make eliminating opponents our goal.we should lead out on flop.imo.

I always lead here, especially with the PFR being last to act, we can build a monster pot here.

AINEC.LIMJetc.

AINEC I understand, but wtf is LIMJ?

[Actuary 3]

like it's my job.

[Guest Zach6668]

like it's my job.

aaahhh... i get it now...

[oceansize 0]

egad. i go with the two bet because i know it will yield results, don't know that an option to three bet will even appear.we all know there are a ton of ways to play any given hand, and a few of those ways get you a pot. one gets you the most you could get for the pot you take, and one way loses you more than you had to lose. not being knowlegable of the game, I shoot for the middle.now i'm gonna go sit in my shame closet and think about what i've typed.Los

[Actuary 3]

Ocean:chill :-) Tim agrees with youhe's a lot more experienced than me.So take comfort in being wrong together!WWEMD?I think lead out.

[screech 0]

egad. i go with the two bet because i know it will yield results, don't know that an option to three bet will even appear.

Nor the option to c/r.Hell, we might even be drawing to just 1 out.

[Guest Zach6668]

egad. i go with the two bet because i know it will yield results, don't know that an option to three bet will even appear.

Nor the option to c/r.Hell, we might even be drawing to just 1 out.

Good point, we might as well open fold if this is our line of thinking.

[RISEorFall 0]

Good point, we might as well open fold if this is our line of thinking.

open-farrelling is the second best option here. Usually it's the first best option, but this time it's only second....

[fckthis 0]

C/r flop. You are almost guranteed a bet from preflop raiser, and it also traps MP for 2 bets, instead of a possible 1, if you lead out, IR raises and you 3 bet.