starting the grind

[NickwHarris 0]

Ok heres the deal, havent posted alot but been observing the forum for a while and am very aware how much i am opening up myself to the flame wars but here goes... ive always played online, deposited and then cashed out if i had any money left if not then that was 50 dollars down the tube. I have never depostied more than 50 until tonight where i plan on deposting 200. I got 250$ for xmas for which i spent some on pokertracker and the rest is going online. My questions for the forum1) any advice to a nl player switching to low online limit play? ive read three different limit books/chapters from SS1 and SS2 as well as winning low limit holdem but personal low limit online advice would be appreciated.2) is there a particular site weaker in low limit play3) i have the bank roll to start out at .5/1 but would starting at say .25/.50 be smarter?4) how long did it take u to figure out pokertracker?5) could you please keep the flaming to a minimal...thanks - nick

[zimmer4141 0]

Good decision. I would say start at .25/.50 for now until you can run it up to $300 for the 300BB bankroll required.Post hands in the micro limit strat as there are people who are in the same boat as you grinding it out at low limits. If you have the funds available, read Small Stakes Hold Em by David Sklansky, many low limit winners on this site swear by that book, although I have never read it.Play at Party, they have the most fish at all limits, especially low limits.Good luck sir.

[Dr_Shakes 0]

Good decision.  I would say start at .25/.50 for now until you can run it up to $300 for the 300BB bankroll required.Post hands in the micro limit strat as there are people who are in the same boat as you grinding it out at low limits.  If you have the funds available, read Small Stakes Hold Em by David Sklansky, many low limit winners on this site swear by that book, although I have never read it.Play at Party, they have the most fish at all limits, especially low limits.Good luck sir.

[SweetDaddyFreak 0]

I play the same stakes. Party is much easier than Full Tilt, which in turn is easier then Pokerstars.Party for Cash GamesPokerstars has many fish, but is the toughest site personally

[Aschlanser 0]

play low limit PLO instead

[finztotheleft 0]

Good decision. I would say start at .25/.50 for now until you can run it up to $300 for the 300BB bankroll required.Post hands in the micro limit strat as there are people who are in the same boat as you grinding it out at low limits. If you have the funds available, read Small Stakes Hold Em by David Sklansky, many low limit winners on this site swear by that book, although I have never read it.Play at Party, they have the most fish at all limits, especially low limits.Good luck sir.

[shinychicken 0]

Go and bonus wh0re a lot of low limit bonuses. Check out my blog for some other things to get you some extra cash.

[radar37 0]

just here to second the small stakes holdem book. In your situation i really think it will help. Even following their starting hand requirements might make you a winner at those limits. Really just a good book. gl you'll be fine.

[NickwHarris 0]

Good decision. I would say start at .25/.50 for now until you can run it up to $300 for the 300BB bankroll required.Post hands in the micro limit strat as there are people who are in the same boat as you grinding it out at low limits. If you have the funds available, read Small Stakes Hold Em by David Sklansky, many low limit winners on this site swear by that book, although I have never read it.Play at Party, they have the most fish at all limits, especially low limits.Good luck sir.

thanks for your help... greatly appreciated but after depositing and trying to play party micro they informed me that those limits were for those whom were just learning the game and since i have played higher stakes i am unable to play at these limits so its .5/1 for now....

[zimmer4141 0]

Good decision. I would say start at .25/.50 for now until you can run it up to $300 for the 300BB bankroll required.Post hands in the micro limit strat as there are people who are in the same boat as you grinding it out at low limits. If you have the funds available, read Small Stakes Hold Em by David Sklansky, many low limit winners on this site swear by that book, although I have never read it.Play at Party, they have the most fish at all limits, especially low limits.Good luck sir.

thanks for your help... greatly appreciated but after depositing and trying to play party micro they informed me that those limits were for those whom were just learning the game and since i have played higher stakes i am unable to play at these limits so its .5/1 for now....

I'm sure you'll be fine there. Seriously, I have seen those limits, and if you have half a brain you should be able to beat those games. Just play premium starting hands, don't bluff, and push the hell out of strong hands.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Party .5/1 is a fine place to start. It's one of the easiest limit games you'll ever find. However, SSHE is a an absolute must. I haven't read the Lee Jones' book, but if you ask most of the people on this site they'll tell you that it's complete garbage and SSHE is loads better. So, you want to read SSHE, and post and read hands in the strat section. If you do that, you should be fine.

[SpeedKills 0]

its tough because you think, its only 50 cents to call, and u dump a lot , u have to play it as if you were playing the limits u are used to

[Syous 0]

you know, I would really suggest smash's theory and some 5 dollar NL sngs to build up your bankroll.assuming your NL game is pretty solidgo to the .10 cent NL games where max buy in is 10 dollars - do smash's theory or play your own solid game, as long as you know what you're doing it's ridiculously easy.when you get to 300, hit the .5/1 limit game

[matthew r 0]

i think crypto sites have the loosest/fishiest LLHE tables...i havent read the sklansky book, i have read the lee jones book, didnt think it was total garbage tho.... but i also did read the... lee jones book... .... ....

[The Jackal 0]

Hi Nick,If you only have a $200 bankroll for .50-1 don't be suprised if you go bust. Especially if your just starting out. Most would recommend 300 big bets. Also party poker is one of the looser and crazier places to play on the internet, so your swings will be larger, requiring a bigger bankroll. Your earnings though will be larger there than other places.1. Small Stakes Hold'em is a must as others have said. The Theory of Poker is also a must. 2. Party Poker is probably the most profitable in the long run. But as I said before, it's a wild game, and I wouldn't really call it weak. It can be more confusing and frustrating than other places. Expect big wins and big losses.I find Full Tilt to be the weakest. Most of the players are passive and loose. But Party Poker players are often very aggressive and put you to tough decisions. 3. I would definately recommend you start at .25-.50 if all you have is $200. Even if that means playing elsewhere. If you are able to reload if you go bust, starting at .50-1 would be fine.4. You mean pokertracker can be "figured out" !!?? :shock: :wink: I don't have it, but disect the help section. That's how I got the knack of Photoshop.5. Good luck with that, this is Flame Central. :roll: Though I am impressed with the above replies.Play hard and study hard. I think you'll do just fine. Best of luck.

[bcook823 0]

Lee Jones' book is not garbage. You will find similar information in that book that you will in SSHE. I will give you the basics for both books right here. 1. Play premium hands2. Don't play weak hands out of position3. When you think you have the best hand bet, or raise.4. Only draw when the pot is laying you the correct price5. When you hit your draw bet6. Don't bluff, you cant bluff someone who won't fold7. These limits are showdown holdem. You will have to have the best hand so no need for fancy plays of anykind. 8. People at these levels are going to suck out on you. You must be able to maintain disipline with your starting hand requirements, and mucking unprofitable draws.

[bcook823 0]

Lee Jones' book is not garbage. You will find similar information in that book that you will in SSHE. I will give you the basics for both books right here. 1. Play premium hands2. Don't play weak hands out of position3. When you think you have the best hand bet, or raise.4. Only draw when the pot is laying you the correct price5. When you hit your draw bet6. Don't bluff, you cant bluff someone who won't fold7. These limits are showdown holdem. You will have to have the best hand so no need for fancy plays of anykind. 8. People at these levels are going to suck out on you. You must be able to maintain disipline with your starting hand requirements, and mucking unprofitable draws.

[Canada 0]

Lee Jones' book is not garbage. You will find similar information in that book that you will in SSHE. I will give you the basics for both books right here. 1. Play premium hands2. Don't play weak hands out of position3. When you think you have the best hand bet, or raise.4. Only draw when the pot is laying you the correct price5. When you hit your draw bet6. Don't bluff, you cant bluff someone who won't fold7. These limits are showdown holdem. You will have to have the best hand so no need for fancy plays of anykind. 8. People at these levels are going to suck out on you. You must be able to maintain disipline with your starting hand requirements, and mucking unprofitable draws.

It's not so much that LJ's book is garbage,it's just that SSHE is so much better.

[Timdog1010 0]

Hi Nick,If you only have a $200 bankroll for .50-1 don't be suprised if you go bust.  Especially if your just starting out.  Most would recommend 300 big bets.  Also party poker is one of the looser and crazier places to play on the internet, so your swings will be larger, requiring a bigger bankroll.  Your earnings though will be larger there than other places.1.  Small Stakes Hold'em is a must as others have said.  The Theory of Poker is also a must.  2.  Party Poker is probably the most profitable in the long run.  But as I said before, it's a wild game, and I wouldn't really call it weak.  It can be more confusing and frustrating than other places.  Expect big wins and big losses.I find Full Tilt to be the weakest.  Most of the players are passive and loose.  But Party Poker players are often very aggressive and put you to tough decisions.  3.  I would definately recommend you start at .25-.50 if all you have is $200.  Even if that means playing elsewhere.  If you are able to reload if you go bust, starting at .50-1 would be fine.4.  You mean pokertracker can be "figured out" !!??  :shock:   :wink:    I don't have it, but disect the help section.  That's how I got the knack of Photoshop.5.  Good luck with that, this is Flame Central.   :roll:   Though I am  impressed with the above replies.Play hard and study hard.  I think you'll do just fine.  Best of luck.

I'm more of a tournament player and and am only beginning to dabble in low-limit cash games myself, so I have little to add to the discussion.But I did want to take issue with the bolded statement above.Other veterans have stated, and I will reiterate now, that the people who get flamed are usually morons who contribute nothing to the forum and really beg to be flamed.Anyone who posts something useful, coherent or amusing will not be flamed, regardless of who they are or what their post count is.The is absolutely nothing flame-worthy about the OP. You should not be surprised to find, then, that he has not been flamed.That is all.

[tyfgine 0]

Good decision.  I would say start at .25/.50 for now until you can run it up to $300 for the 300BB bankroll required.Post hands in the micro limit strat as there are people who are in the same boat as you grinding it out at low limits.  If you have the funds available, read Small Stakes Hold Em by David Sklansky, many low limit winners on this site swear by that book, although I have never read it.Play at Party, they have the most fish at all limits, especially low limits.Good luck sir.

do it ... do it you will be fine.

[bcook823 0]

However, SSHE is a an absolute must.[/b]  I haven't read the Lee Jones' book, but if you ask most of the people on this site they'll tell you that it's complete garbage and SSHE is loads better.

SSHE is better, not loads better. Lee Jones' book, the version that is out in print now, is very good. I can't figure how someone could say SSHE is great and his is garbage. They are very very similar.

[TS Clark 0]

Lee Jones' book is not garbage. You will find similar information in that book that you will in SSHE. I will give you the basics for both books right here.  1. Play premium hands2. Don't play weak hands out of position3. When you think you have the best hand bet, or raise.4. Only draw when the pot is laying you the correct price5. When you hit your draw bet6. Don't bluff, you cant bluff someone who won't fold7. These limits are showdown holdem. You will have to have the best hand so no need for fancy plays of anykind.  8. People at these levels are going to suck out on you. You must be able to maintain disipline with your starting hand requirements, and mucking unprofitable draws.

OP -- if you follow the advice above (which is a pretty accurate summation of all low-limit HE books at their core), you will do just fine.On the bankroll issue, if you are any type of a decent player, you should be fine with 200 times the BB at the limits you're playing at. The 300 BB "rule" is really for a serious bankroll. While it is a very good one to observe, it not a religious obligation for the recreational player (which anyone playing .50-1 is, whether they want to admit it or not). You'll want the bigger bankroll as you move up in stakes, because the players get a bit better and the games more aggressive. But at the level you're playing at, I'd just go ahead and play the .50-1 games at Party. The fishiness of the tables is just too good to give up over a modest deficit in your bankroll (which wouldn't take too much work to replace in it's entirety in real world money to begin with).The one caveat I suppose I should put here is that if you get into the game and discover that are a bad limit player and are bleeding money, then withdraw and move your roll to a micro-limit site like UB or Stars. But most decent card players usually adapt pretty fast and can play at least a serviceable limit game in short order. On the Party .50-1 tables, if you're not completely retarded, you'll have a hard time dropping 200 BB.

[Randy Reed 0]

The thing about low limit ring games is having a plan in place and following it. Are like the canish (sp?) guy from rounders or will you get impatient and "take a shot" and blow your wad like most do? Expect huge swings in the roll even at low limit. I have been a winning low limit online player for the past year and it's a grind. What are your expectations with the $200? Can you go a couple of months and find yourself breaking even and stay with it? What if you're only up $50 to $100 in a couple months? You won't hit bigger paydays till you move up in limit, but you have to earn it and grind it out properly. You have to read SSHE not just once, but a couple hundred times IMHO. I use it to refresh my game constantly. I would also reccomend reading the psychology of poker if you don't understand a tight-aggressive style as well. It is a safe way of protecting your bankroll and logging hours of play, as well as the most profitable game. You have to pay your dues though. If you think you can jump into a 1/2 game and sustain it, you're kidding yourself.1) Put in the time to learn/log endless hours of play2) have proper bankroll management3) read any and everything you can4) take notes on opposing players5) find the fish, don't play against the tougher foes6)vary your play by playing occasional sng's and mtt's

[BubbleBoy 0]

I agree with everyone about Party, they have the best games and if you pay attention and withdraw your money in time you can hit up the monthly bonuses which are very easy to clear. As far as how long it takes. I deposited 175 into Party in June with a reload bonus. Right now my bankroll is just under 2000 and I'm playing 2/4 at Party. I just grinded .5/1 then 1/2 along with getting those reload bonuses and had some success.Be prepared for frustration on Party, b/c whenever you start to run bad it gets really bad and you feel like it may never end. But you can also get on outrageous rushes b/c of all the donks.One last thing is if you get to 2/4 DO NOT PLAY THE BAD BEAT JACKPOT TABLES. when i first got to 2/4 i was lured into it by the big jackpots. But don't do it. It will drain your BR like you wouldn't believe. The regular 2/4 tables are just as soft as the other tables on Party. Good luck man, I've been there.

[Randy Reed 0]

OH yeah, Duh, and read all the smash articles posted here on $50 to $1000 playing limit poker, must read.