letter from steve lipscomb and wpt:

[SteveB23 0]

Anyone else find it odd that in the height of the poker boom the WPT still hasn't turned a profit.

[Whatever 1]

I think too much tends to be made of WPT season 1. What were their numbers like as far as ratings go? They couldn't have been very big at all compared to the 2003 Main event on ESPN.I think you should credit the WPT for the hole cams which made the 2003 ME huge.

[jooka 0]

Anyone else find it odd that in the height of the poker boom the WPT still hasn't turned a profit.

this with Doyle being investigated about a buy out offer is pretty interesting. wasnt there an article awhile back about the indian tribe that the WPT is owned by talking about being in finaincial trouble and hoping to selll the wpt to get out of some sort of debt? I might by high but I remember reading something along those lines.

[theresa113 0]

Anyone else find it odd that in the height of the poker boom the WPT still hasn't turned a profit.

Not at all.Most 5 years business plans are written to NOT have a profit. Money is usually reinvested into the business at hand for growth purposes. Profits are expected after the reinvestment phase of the business, when your entity is large enough to attract buyers. I am sure most of the fear is not the current management but what happens once this entity is sold.WPT is a quality product which at the least has helped the poker boom and at the most, created the poker boom.

[ilovejulie 0]

Anyone else find it odd that in the height of the poker boom the WPT still hasn't turned a profit.

Well, Amazon for example invested hugely in their infrastructure and didn't profit for much longer (have they even yet?). WPT, as I see it, is a play to land a major TV rights deal. The tour won't make money, and that's not the point. They are trying to make the leap from the lowly Travel Channel, which pays them next to nothing, to any big network. So while they haven't directly profited from the poker boom yet, it does serve their purpose and that's why the company has appreciated modestly in value. If/when you see a price spike, then you'l know a TV deal is close...WPTE, while publicly traded, is itself majority-owned by another gaming company (I forgot the ticker symbol) that Lyle Berman is CEO of. They are a cheap stock, and may be in financial trouble, especially as I believe they owned a casino on Biloxi, which obviously is now gone...P.S. I think it's funny that Mimi Rogers is on the Board of WPTE...

[WPTCookie 0]

Anyone else find it odd that in the height of the poker boom the WPT still hasn't turned a profit.

this with Doyle being investigated about a buy out offer is pretty interesting. wasnt there an article awhile back about the indian tribe that the WPT is owned by talking about being in finaincial trouble and hoping to selll the wpt to get out of some sort of debt? I might by high but I remember reading something along those lines.

Please note that Doyle Brunson and the attorneys that represented him during the deal are being investigated, not WPTE. The WPTE is also not owned by an Indian tribe.You are high.

[WPTCookie 0]

P.S. I think it's funny that Mike Sexton is on the Board of WPTE...

Mike Sexton is not on WPTE's Board of Directors.

[jooka 0]

Anyone else find it odd that in the height of the poker boom the WPT still hasn't turned a profit.

this with Doyle being investigated about a buy out offer is pretty interesting. wasnt there an article awhile back about the indian tribe that the WPT is owned by talking about being in finaincial trouble and hoping to selll the wpt to get out of some sort of debt? I might by high but I remember reading something along those lines.

Please note that Doyle Brunson and the attorneys that represented him during the deal are being investigated, not WPTE. The WPTE is also not owned by an Indian tribe.You are high.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/051123/20051123005...390.html?.v%3D1

About Lakes EntertainmentLakes Entertainment, Inc. currently has development and management agreements with five separate Tribes for new casino operations in Michigan, California, and Oklahoma, a total of eight separate casino sites. In addition, Lakes has announced plans to develop a company owned casino resort project in Vicksburg, Mississippi. The Company also owns approximately 62% of WPT Enterprises, Inc. (Nasdaq "WPTE"), a separate publicly held media and entertainment company principally engaged in the development, production and marketing of gaming themed televised programming including the World Poker Tour television series, the licensing and sale of branded products and the sale of corporate sponsorships.

I didnt remember it correctly but this is what I was refering to.

[digitalmonkey 929]

WPTE

[sholden 0]

Anyone else find it odd that in the height of the poker boom the WPT still hasn't turned a profit.

Any company that turns a profit in its first five years needs a better accountant.

[SteveB23 0]

I realize that most business have a 5 year plan, etc and a vast majority show no gains the first few years but lets be honest, poker is about as hot as its going to get right now. What could possibly come along to increase the public about the game? Chances are most of the public has seen it on TV at one time or another already and have either chosen to take up the game or not.

[Vatche 0]

even tho they were the first with the hole cam, they ARE NOT the ones responsible for the poker boom...it was ESPN that caused all this...the season 1 wpt was a joke and the 2003 airing of the main event saved the WPT...

I strongly disagree. I had seen some ESPN WSOP coverage before seeing the first season of the WPT. The game was esoteric. I was following it to a certain degree, but I felt it was so out of my league. It was intriging but not inviting.Then, I saw the WPT. Every Thursday, I would talk about it a lunch and ask others if they saw any of the episodes. Mike Sexton and Vince Van Patten explained the game, the thought process and gave their oppinions. Instead of poker seeming like you had to be part of some selective clique, I felt as if I could learn and play the game. The WPT is why I play poker. The WPT is why I am part of a poker league. The WPT is why I was looking up players on the internet and stumbled across Full Contact Poker BEFORE there was a forum.

i dont doubt that people got into poker thru the WPT, like u or Kdawg...but the majority i feel came thru ESPN.

[KDawgCometh 2]

i dont doubt that people got into poker thru the WPT, like u or Kdawg...but the majority i feel came thru ESPN.

my argument isn't what made poker boom big time again, it is your stand that teh WPT season 1 was a failiure. That is wrong. If you just look at the attendances for the tournies that were around before the WPT, and then the attendences for those tournies after the WPT hardly says that season 1 was a failiure like you said. It should also be noted that the first run of the WSOP ME in 2003 didn't draw as big of ratings as the second run did, that in of itself can be contributed with how well the first season of the WPT did. I know that people weren't talking about Moneymaker until the second run of airings, cause some people knew that I watched poker on TV, and they didn't start asking me about things until after the second run in the early fall

[Suited_Up 2]

i dont doubt that people got into poker thru the WPT, like u or Kdawg...but the majority i feel came thru ESPN.

my argument isn't what made poker boom big time again, it is your stand that teh WPT season 1 was a failiure. That is wrong. If you just look at the attendances for the tournies that were around before the WPT, and then the attendences for those tournies after the WPT hardly says that season 1 was a failiure like you said. It should also be noted that the first run of the WSOP ME in 2003 didn't draw as big of ratings as the second run did, that in of itself can be contributed with how well the first season of the WPT did. I know that people weren't talking about Moneymaker until the second run of airings, cause some people knew that I watched poker on TV, and they didn't start asking me about things until after the second run in the early fall

Good point.Although I think this whole debate about which came first is kinda pointless. It was almost concurrent.

[Pupsta 0]

i dont doubt that people got into poker thru the WPT, like u or Kdawg...but the majority i feel came thru ESPN.

my argument isn't what made poker boom big time again, it is your stand that teh WPT season 1 was a failiure. That is wrong. If you just look at the attendances for the tournies that were around before the WPT, and then the attendences for those tournies after the WPT hardly says that season 1 was a failiure like you said. It should also be noted that the first run of the WSOP ME in 2003 didn't draw as big of ratings as the second run did, that in of itself can be contributed with how well the first season of the WPT did. I know that people weren't talking about Moneymaker until the second run of airings, cause some people knew that I watched poker on TV, and they didn't start asking me about things until after the second run in the early fall

Good point.Although I think this whole debate about which came first is kinda pointless. It was almost concurrent.

stewie or boobies.it's either one or the other, or both if you can photoshop well. no more saved by the river, or yay doyle, or anything else like that.that's an order.

[Suited_Up 2]

But I like Zach Morris.

[Pupsta 0]

But I like Zach Morris.

how awful is it that i didn't even realize that was zack morris? that also explains why i didn't get it.my best friend in college was named zach morris, i made fun of him relentlessly, although it was about 7 years too late.

[yeffy 0]

i dont doubt that people got into poker thru the WPT, like u or Kdawg...but the majority i feel came thru ESPN.

But the larger point you're missing is that WPT season 1 is responsible for ESPN's success in 2003. If the WPT had not shown that the public would watch a weekly 2 hour poker show, ESPN would have devoted the same 1 hour show that they had for every WSOP prior to that.2002 WSOP coverage was dreadful, it featured the same 80's style coverage with Gabe Kaplan and company guessing about players holdings. Yes Late night poker was the first to show hole cards using the big glass panels on the table a'la poker superstars. WPT used the lipstick cams and made the whole thing much slicker. They were the first to show percentages as well. It was this successful style of coverage that led ESPN to devote more time and money to the '03 Series. And as someone pointed out the '03 reruns had significantly better ratings then the first runs.While more people have probably been introduced to the game from ESPN's coverage you cannot say they are responsible for the boom. They most definitely fueled it significantly but that may have been partially dumb luck thanks to their being handed an everyman cinderella story with Moneymaker.If you really wanted to get deeper into the origins of the poker boom, you can look at rounders. I remember after Rounders came out all of these people commenting on how many more kids were coming into the poker rooms. So maybe Rounders sparked the WPT which sparked Espn which led to etc. and so forth.

[mrdannyg 274]

But I like Zach Morris.

i actually met the guy, and he is a real *******. filmed some sort of garbage movie that went straight to video at my friend's house, so we'd go over since the costar was the hot chick from mortal kombat. but marc-paul or whatever his name was was a real dick. way past normal levels of dick too, like he thought he was the coolest guy in the world and really believed it. this was several years after the show ended too.

[ilovejulie 0]

P.S.  I think it's funny that Mike Sexton is on the Board of WPTE...

Mike Sexton is not on WPTE's Board of Directors.

Fixed my post. It's Mimi Rogers who is on the Board; Sexton is listed on The Management Team page...

[goibhniu 0]

Second. It is wrong to defend the current release on the grounds that they wont use the rights they are reserving for themsleves. This is business. Contracts are binding. By saying that they would never use certain rights that they reserve, they are admitting that their waiver goes too far. Fix it. This is not an issue of trust. I would never sign a contract that I was not comfortable with in any context no matter how much I trusted the other party not to invoke the clauses I felt were excessive. That would be bad business on my part.

And that really is the key here. WPTE is a publicly traded company that it majority owned by another publicly traded company. Steve Lipscomb may have the best of intentions, but he can be replaced. WPTE is legally obligated to do what is in the best interests of their shareholders, so even if Lipscomb and Company are nice guys and wouldn't take advantage of the players in this fashion, that doesn't mean that the next group of executives will be.Lipscomb says that the players who are concerned about the releases are living in the world of hypotheticals, not reality. But when you're talking about business, job security, and your financial future you have to always keep an eye out for what is possible, even if it is not highly probable. I suppose that when I put a deadbolt lock on my front door, it's because I'm concerned about the hypothetical of someone breaking into my house and robbing me blind. Nobody has done it to me yet, and I see no reason to believe that such an act is imminent, but since it is hypothetically possible you can bet that I take the reasonable precaution of making sure that my front door is deadbolted at night.The other red flag (and Lipscomb pointed it out) is that WPTE has yet to turn a profit. Those ancillary rights granted by the releases are an asset. If WPTE were to go under or be sold, those assets would be worth something to someone who wanted to make a video game, etc. Lipscomb cites the example of the founders of Partygaming who "cashed out over a billion dollars this year", and points out Lyle Berman has yet to sell any of his stock in WPTE. It's a safe bet that Mr. Berman is waiting for his chance to cash out for big money too.What if Doyle Brunson (and presumably his backers, since I doubt he had $700 million of his own money) had actually bought WPTE? What would he and his backers have wanted to do with those ancillary rights? $700 million is a lot of money to spend for an unprofitable company, unless you believe that you can make better use of it's assets to make to profitable. And after dropping $700 million on an unprofitable company with a $120 million market cap, believe me, you will be under intense pressure to make all of it's assets produce revenue.Uh-oh, suddenly the "hypothetical" situation doesn't seem so far-fetched anymore, does it?