who is this dreamclown?

[llou 0]

"On one side, the internet culture that has formed and dominates dreamclown's worldview doesn't give a da** about the actual people behind the computer screen."I think this is the flaw of your theory. It's not that we dont care about people, it's that we don't take the internet chat very seriously, and neither should you. "FU fish" is funny when written in chat but it's not something we normally say live to a person.Also 50k is nothing for DN so there's no need for anyone to feel bad.Also,GCC members+spirit of Bob+ legend of O'Connor = infinite clueless and angry railbirds. It is our special super power ability.

Point taken ... but I don't think we are that far apart in our assessment of the situation in your example. You don't take internet chat seriously -- so, in your mind it doesn't count as anything significant and you don't believe that the usual standards for social interaction should apply. That's what I was saying in my post. People say things on the internet that they would never say to someone face-to-face. They don't intend for the statements to amount to anything -- but they need to realize that sometimes, they do. In your mind, such statements are not meant to be taken seriously -- but you are not stopping to think that the person on the receiving end of your "FU fish" MIGHT take it seriously. You are failing to consider the perspective of the person at the receiving end of your post. That's a big part of what I was saying about "not giving a da**" about the people behind the computer screen. If you know the person on the receiving end and you know that they share the same philosophy as you about those things, then it's OK -- just as it is OK for friends to interact with each other that way face-to-face. However, in chat rooms and on forums, etc. there are a lot of strangers who might not share the same cultural perspectives of that sort of communication --- and that's where the problems surface.It's a matter of conflicting cultures -- cultures that have different perspective on communication and behavior. Both "sides" make valid points when viewed from their own perspectives. But the perspectives are sufficiently different to make it difficult to merge them. It's going to take both sides a lot of mental work to reconcile them into one viewpoint sophisticated enough to accommodate the complexities of the real world.So, in the end ... your response supports my main point.Thank you for the polite discussion.llou

[iveyfan30 0]

i dont get the big deal here..dn lost to this guy and is a little peeved...ok , and?? as far as being "manly" or doing the "right thing", i dont think dreamclown owes this to dn or anybody else for that matter...poker is about winning money..bottom line...there is no prize for best sportsmanship, besides if there was hellmuth would win everyone....well, if luck wasnt involved that is...

[llou 0]

...And that, to me, is the fundamental flaw in YOUR theory. People SHOULD take internet chat seriously. ....... It's like the old addage that says a person's true character is revealed by what they do when no one is looking. In this case one's true character is revealed by how they behave behind an alias while sitting at their computer.....

You were posting your response as I was writing mine. So, I didn't get to see yours until after posting mine.Your post is much better written than mine. I truly appreciate the ideas you expressed and the way in which you expressed them.Thank you for the contribution to this discussion -- which focuses on a topic near and dear to my heart. As I said in another, related thread, I am seeing some of the results of this cultural shift in my workplace and it is becoming a significant problem. There are serious implications for society here that need to be aired and dealt with.llou

[llou 0]

i dont get the big deal here..dn lost to this guy and is a little peeved...ok , and?? as far as being "manly" or doing the "right thing", i dont think dreamclown owes this to dn or anybody else for that matter...poker is about winning money..bottom line...there is no prize for best sportsmanship, besides if there was hellmuth would win everyone....well, if luck wasnt involved that is...

I guess you hadn't noticed. The discussion has gone far beyond the particular match between DN and dreamclown. Those 2 matches were just the spark that ignited a discussion of broader, more important issues. It's not really about those 2 matches any more.llou

[Fullhouse7 0]

This exemplifies why Armaggedon is around the corner <sw>.

[VegasBone 0]

I think the real issue that needs to be addressed is how on earth is DN going to get 300K on FCP when Neteller only lets you deposit $750 per week.(sw)

[PAYforUSC 0]

have you seen my baseball?

[iveyfan30 0]

i dont get the big deal here..dn lost to this guy and is a little peeved...ok , and?? as far as being "manly" or doing the "right thing", i dont think dreamclown owes this to dn or anybody else for that matter...poker is about winning money..bottom line...there is no prize for best sportsmanship, besides if there was hellmuth would win everyone....well, if luck wasnt involved that is...

I guess you hadn't noticed. The discussion has gone far beyond the particular match between DN and dreamclown. Those 2 matches were just the spark that ignited a discussion of broader, more important issues. It's not really about those 2 matches any more.llou

i guess this was your attempt at making yourself feel smart.. nice job...not for nothing, this comes off a little as dn being pwned on his own site and being mad about it...i hear what he is saying about respect and all that, in a perfect world he would be right..this is not a perfect world, its not owed to him...people on the internet will take your roll ,call your mom a lesbian and steal your girlfriend and smile while doing it ...lets not elevate what a poker player is, he is not some white knight that does good deeds on his way to save the world from evil, these are ppl that have nothing else in mind but to break you...dont get me wrong, im all for treating ppl with respect and handling yourself with class at the table, doesnt mean that everybody else feels the same way...

[Herr Baader 0]

Your post is much better written than mine. I truly appreciate the ideas you expressed and the way in which you expressed them.Thank you for the contribution to this discussion -- which focuses on a topic near and dear to my heart. As I said in another, related thread, I am seeing some of the results of this cultural shift in my workplace and it is becoming a significant problem. There are serious implications for society here that need to be aired and dealt with.llou

Funny, I was thinking the same thing... are we the same person? As too much earnest back-patting is just as icky to me as the kind of juvenile trash-talk that runs rampant in internet forums, I'll leave it at that. But suffice it to say I was impressed by your initial post, and curious enough by your last to ask: what kind of work do you do and in what kinds of problems has this shift manifested itself?edit: never mind, I just found your other post and I think I ger the idea...

[adammc 0]

I love how the issue was silenced as soon as Neverwin's post was read.

[Waffles2003 1]

Posted by DN in may :

Sat, May 21st, 2005 1:09Reply with quoteMy biggest concers are fending off all of the great, young limit hold'em specialists that hone their skills on the internet. Joe may actually be the favorite, but I did get rid of my rust in the game so I have renewed confidence that I'll do ok.Ideally I'd rather play guys like Barry Greenstein because I honestly and genuinely feel like my edge would be biggest against him. It would also be satisfying to bring him back to Earth a little bit if you know what I mean!In fact, I would stake Joe in limit hold'em against Barry anytime. I'd also stake Jennifer Harman, Todd Brunson, Howard Lederer, Phil Ivey, John D'Agostino, Erick Lindgren, Erik123, David Oppenhiem, Ted Forrest, Ray Dekargani, John Hennigan and several others in limit hold'em against Barry. I think it's one of his worst games.In the corporation against Andy Beal he just migth be the biggest loser overall as I don't think he beat Andy in any of the sessions they played. Of course if you ask Barry he might tell you that he was the biggest winner for the corporation. The biggest winner in cash game history. That he wins 106% of his sessions, and has also never played a tournament that he didn't finish first place in.

http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/v...f3c740a9775bdc7

[Herr Baader 0]

I love how the issue was silenced as soon as Neverwin's post was read.

I love how I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Good job, sir. Kudos.

[holdinmynutz 0]

bumpSome time has passed. Has this guy/group (confirmed names?) and have they become 'known' for any live poker games? Anyone? Fun match-up and times in the forums during their matches.

[Plus one 0]

bumpSome time has passed. Has this guy/group (confirmed names?) and have they become 'known' for any live poker games? Anyone? Fun match-up and times in the forums during their matches.

Dreamclown is a tire mechanic from st louis whose real name is sneed hearn. Altho its rumored that his bud Ace Freehole sometimes sat in.