Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Well, although your posts make you sound  like an idiot, I have to agree.It's been well documented that the WPT final table is a complete joke, but I never took a REAL look at it until the 5 Diamond Classic. The blinds heads up were 300,000/600,000 with 50,000 ante. At one point the final two (Not to ruin the results for anybody) each had near 8.5 million in chips. That is 1,000,000 every two hands.  I remind you the pay difference is 1,000,000 dollars! Don't you think that with a name like the World Poker Tour, they would endorse poker actually be played? It will be seen on TV that ANY two cards were good enough to open for an all in when it got 3-4 handed. It was basically a matter of getting away with steals as much as possible, and hopefully by the time you did, you had a big chip stack to try and get lucky with.  With the current boycott by some bigger name players, I hope that some changes are made. I can understand the WPT forcing action for TV, but they really have to realize the amount of money that is on the line for the players that are buying into their events and making them millions of dollars every week.
Though your point is well-stated, I must say simply that it's easy to criticize from the sidelines. Unless you're behind those cameras, editing the footage, working deals with television networks, and overseeing these massive tournaments, it's difficult to know why they do what they do. There are reasons for all of the decisions...As poker grows, WPT does its best to grow along with it. However, there are limitations in the tv business that must be taken into consideration. Sorry that I can't go into details, but suffice it to say that WPT cares a great deal about poker, especially the players.
Link to post
Share on other sites
They say, "People like the all in", but doesnt the WSOP get higher rating than WPT?  WSOP has the best structure around.  I don't think the advertisers have any clue what the people want.
The WSOP gets higher ratings cause Mike Sexton is a douche bag and no one likes listening to him. I guess the ESPN announcers are not much better but man Mike Sexton is annoying.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Though your point is well-stated, I must say simply that it's easy to criticize from the sidelines.  Unless you're behind those cameras, editing the footage, working deals with television networks, and overseeing these massive tournaments, it's difficult to know why they do what they do.  There are reasons for all of the decisions...As poker grows, WPT does its best to grow along with it.  However, there are limitations in the tv business that must be taken into consideration.  Sorry that I can't go into details, but suffice it to say that WPT cares a great deal about poker, especially the players.
It can't be denied that the WPT has done great things for poker. That being said your argument holds no water while they continue to take advantage of the players. There is only one reason for the "decisions".Jack McClelland has the best structures in the business. He gives the players more play for the money than anywhere else and that is why Bellagio tourney final tables tend to feature some of the best of the best. But his structure at a final table would produce a ton of play. The $2500 and $5000 final tables were long long events. The WPT doesn't want to pay their staff for that long and shoot that much foootage.I'm sorry but while the WPT is putting up exactly $0 dollars for the prize pool or entry fees the players have a right to play out their tournaments with a good structure. They walk in, set their own fast structure which is specifically designed to get the final table done in 5 hours or less, and then walk out with FREE content for a tv show.ESPN on the other hand sat there during the series and let the cameras run. Filming 12 hour final tables, editing them, and broadcasting them in a fraction of the time it has taken the WPT to get events from last year on.So while its easy to say
As poker grows, WPT does its best to grow along with it.  However, there are limitations in the tv business that must be taken into consideration.  Sorry that I can't go into details, but suffice it to say that WPT cares a great deal about poker, especially the players.
they really need to make some changes and listen to the players complaints. If they're smart they will do this before the players organize and take a stand. They would do much better to make a few changes and spend a little extra money to continue receiving free content for their shows then have to negotiate with a players union for broadcast rights.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, although your posts make you sound  like an idiot, I have to agree.It's been well documented that the WPT final table is a complete joke, but I never took a REAL look at it until the 5 Diamond Classic. The blinds heads up were 300,000/600,000 with 50,000 ante. At one point the final two (Not to ruin the results for anybody) each had near 8.5 million in chips. That is 1,000,000 every two hands.  I remind you the pay difference is 1,000,000 dollars! Don't you think that with a name like the World Poker Tour, they would endorse poker actually be played? It will be seen on TV that ANY two cards were good enough to open for an all in when it got 3-4 handed. It was basically a matter of getting away with steals as much as possible, and hopefully by the time you did, you had a big chip stack to try and get lucky with.  With the current boycott by some bigger name players, I hope that some changes are made. I can understand the WPT forcing action for TV, but they really have to realize the amount of money that is on the line for the players that are buying into their events and making them millions of dollars every week.
Though your point is well-stated, I must say simply that it's easy to criticize from the sidelines. Unless you're behind those cameras, editing the footage, working deals with television networks, and overseeing these massive tournaments, it's difficult to know why they do what they do. There are reasons for all of the decisions...As poker grows, WPT does its best to grow along with it. However, there are limitations in the tv business that must be taken into consideration. Sorry that I can't go into details, but suffice it to say that WPT cares a great deal about poker, especially the players.
I assume you mean cost of film, crew, editing team, etc. I do not think that they take a cut of the fee (Which is very possible), but they do happen to be making a very large amount in both advertisement and sales of merchandise. I understand that it can not be an event where stacks are like 200-400BB deep at a final table, but come on TEN?! That is insane! They are really saying "Well, we sponsored this event, rolled some random footage during the first four days for little cost and now we have a ton of expenses, let's hurry this along so we can pack up and leave so we can save cost."Almost all other major buy in structures are at least suited to allow moves other than pushing. Hands down, the WPT stopped this from being allowed, it is unfair to everybody that entered.
I, for one, am a big fan of the WPT's final table structure.The more donks who watch that episode on TV and then pick up A2 and call my preflop all-in raise in a full-ring cash game, the happier I'll be.
I have heard this statement along with the other "Well, I love TV Poker because people play such BAD hands trying to be Gus Hanson, etc."Well, if that's the case, you have no justification to complain about a bad beat ever again. You are throwing up the flag of "Varience will succeed in the end!" I agree, just be careful what you wish for.
I'm sorry but while the WPT is putting up exactly $0 dollars for the prize pool or entry fees the players have a right to play out their tournaments with a good structure. They walk in, set their own fast structure which is specifically designed to get the final table done in 5 hours or less, and then walk out with FREE content for a tv show.
This is more or less my exact argument. The structure of Bellagio tournaments is outstanding for players. Then the WPT needs to get in and get out. I remember a time ago when Chris Ferguson and a few others were attempting to form a players union. To be perfectly honest, I think that professional tournament players NEED to form this. It is one thing to show the close of an event, it is another to take the footage of Paul Phillips bluffing Phil Laak and replaying it over 100,000 for their commercials. He should at least see some mild royalties there.Why?Simply because they are capitalizing on the fact of Paul Phillip's image. He has been at a few final tables and won a championship, thus WPT viewers are aware of his "hollywood" status. They knew he was recognizable and used him. Now if they had used somebody like "The Statue" (The event where he called Gus Hansen's 800,000 bet three handed with AQ on a missed flop) for their advertisement... people would barely recognize him. The fact is simple. The World Poker Tour is a business, they must look out for their best interest. They have also done an incredible amount for the world of poker, nobody can deny that. The problem is their business practice. The first season of the WPT had a short field of events. These events also attracted small fields, mostly professional players and a few satellite winners. These players, that allowed the WPT to become such a huge success are now being thrown to the side. Their wishes aren't really any concern. With lack of a better reaction, that's just really not right. That's really the end of my rant, I just REALLY hope that the WPT gets it together. I really look forward to playing events in the future. There is just really not a great ROI with a final table like that. The best pro can fall in a rut and fail to cash in 12 events (At 15,000, thats 180,000), but make a nice score and be up the next tournament. With the final being so top heavy for 1st, you could place well in a major event and fail to break even on the year. That's rough.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest XXEddie

yeah look at the differecne between season 3 WPT championship, and the 2005 WSOP MEWPT15,000,000 in play, 400k/800k blindsWSOP56,000,000 in play 100k/200k blindsWSOP PWNS The World Crapshoot Tour

Link to post
Share on other sites
Date / Time: 2005-12-17 00:05:00  Title: Blinds Increasing to $150,000-$300,000 ($30,000 Ante) Log: The blinds increase to $150,000-$300,000, with a $30,000 ante. Play will continue without a break.    I HATE THE  :wpt:!They turn the tourney into a luckfest!450k +120k=570k in every pot.Theres only 16 million in play!Did I mention I HATE THE  :wpt:!
agreed
Link to post
Share on other sites

They also need more coverage of the progression throughout the tournament, i love watching the updates and interviews on cardplayer.com...they should work together and get somesort of live update show going...

Link to post
Share on other sites
They also need more coverage of the progression throughout the tournament, i love watching the updates and interviews on cardplayer.com...they should work together and get somesort of live update show going...
That would cost them more money than they are willing to spend sir.
Link to post
Share on other sites
I never realized how bad the structure is. I think usually the tourney is over by now so its not such a total crapshoot. But I mean how are they going to show A2 v 33, 22 v 1010 and 85 v QQ on TV without making this seem like a crapshoot.
They will take some creative license.Low camera angles, high camera angles, cross-camera angles. Spice it with some suspensful music. Misrepresent how long it took the players to make their decisions, what they were looking at when they made their decisions, and then cut to commercial as they try to "put a little SPICE in YOUR coffee."Ooooo good TV.
Link to post
Share on other sites

In response to Teph:WPT does not take a cut of the entry fees or buy-ins to the tournaments. In addition, some of the merchandise sold at the events is not through WPT but independent vendors. And WPT does not receive any money through advertising; Travel Channel does.Decisions to shorten tournaments by raising blinds and antes so high are not done without much consideration. I submit that there are just as many people (players) who agree with that decision as it speeds up play and keeps a tournament from lasting 20 hours a day for more than a week.In response to Yeffy:The work that WPT puts into covering a tournament is extensive, and all of the staff and equipment is far from free. They are there several days prior to the tournament and a day after it ends, all incurring costs that I can't divulge here.WPT constantly deals with the players and continues to work with them to resolve any differences. Believe me, I know this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
In response to Teph:WPT does not take a cut of the entry fees or buy-ins to the tournaments.  In addition, some of the merchandise sold at the events is not through WPT but independent vendors.  And WPT does not receive any money through advertising; Travel Channel does.Decisions to shorten tournaments by raising blinds and antes so high are not done without much consideration.  I submit that there are just as many people (players) who agree with that decision as it speeds up play and keeps a tournament from lasting 20 hours a day for more than a week.In response to Yeffy:The work that WPT puts into covering a tournament is extensive, and all of the staff and equipment is far from free.  They are there several days prior to the tournament and a day after it ends, all incurring costs that I can't divulge here.WPT constantly deals with the players and continues to work with them to resolve any differences.  Believe me, I know this.
Lyle or Steven is that you?! :-) Anyways, I am trying my hardest not to be an extremist here. I understand that profit is necessary. Your posts are really making it to look as if the WPT is a volunteer network of personalities all trying their hardest to bring poker to the people. You make money sir. The least you could do is allow players to have a legitimate shot to use their skill to win more money.
Link to post
Share on other sites
In response to Teph:WPT does not take a cut of the entry fees or buy-ins to the tournaments.  In addition, some of the merchandise sold at the events is not through WPT but independent vendors.  And WPT does not receive any money through advertising; Travel Channel does.Decisions to shorten tournaments by raising blinds and antes so high are not done without much consideration.  I submit that there are just as many people (players) who agree with that decision as it speeds up play and keeps a tournament from lasting 20 hours a day for more than a week.In response to Yeffy:The work that WPT puts into covering a tournament is extensive, and all of the staff and equipment is far from free.  They are there several days prior to the tournament and a day after it ends, all incurring costs that I can't divulge here.WPT constantly deals with the players and continues to work with them to resolve any differences.  Believe me, I know this.
Lyle or Steven is that you?! :-) Anyways, I am trying my hardest not to be an extremist here. I understand that profit is necessary. Your posts are really making it to look as if the WPT is a volunteer network of personalities all trying their hardest to bring poker to the people. You make money sir. The least you could do is allow players to have a legitimate shot to use their skill to win more money.
Ha! No, this isn't Lyle. I'm a woman who works for WPT and cares about how people perceive the company.I didn't mean to make it sound like WPT is some type of volunteer organization on behalf of poker. I just hope that people know how much WPT really cares about the game, not just the financial bottom line.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Bring back Shana hiatt and all will b foorgiven
Give Courtney a chance! You might just like her better than Shana. :club:
i've met Courtney three times in the last 2 years. cutie as hell, BUT, oh how do i say it?? a little full of herself. not real genuine. fake, there i said it. but, damn she is pretty hot.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Bring back Shana hiatt and all will b foorgiven
Give Courtney a chance! You might just like her better than Shana. :club:
And to quote Wayne, "yeah, and monkies might just fly out of my butt."
Link to post
Share on other sites
yeah look at the differecne between season 3 WPT championship, and the 2005 WSOP MEWPT15,000,000 in play, 400k/800k blindsWSOP56,000,000 in play 100k/200k blindsWSOP PWNS The World Crapshoot Tour
Link to post
Share on other sites
In response to Teph:WPT does not take a cut of the entry fees or buy-ins to the tournaments.  In addition, some of the merchandise sold at the events is not through WPT but independent vendors.  And WPT does not receive any money through advertising; Travel Channel does.Decisions to shorten tournaments by raising blinds and antes so high are not done without much consideration.  I submit that there are just as many people (players) who agree with that decision as it speeds up play and keeps a tournament from lasting 20 hours a day for more than a week.They like luck.  Poker players love luck!In response to Yeffy:The work that WPT puts into covering a tournament is extensive, and all of the staff and equipment is far from free.  They are there several days prior to the tournament and a day after it ends, all incurring costs that I can't divulge here.WPT constantly deals with the players and continues to work with them to resolve any differences.  Believe me, I know this.
He makes my argument even better. lol
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...