jj on the button. what the ... (lhe)

[Sysvr4 0]

3/6 on FCP. About 50 hands into my session, no reads.I have J J on the button.PreflopUTG+1 raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 1 fold, CO caps, Hero ???Jeff

[zimmer4141 0]

Unless it's a game full of LAG maniacs, hero should be folding IMO.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Folds. And downloads some pornWang

[Actuary 3]

call

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I like calling.Your implied odds hitting a Jack are just too good, and you know where you're at if not.Plus position rocks, too.

[Sysvr4 0]

For those that say call, some questions:a) What percentage of the time do we have the best hand, do you think?B) When we don't, how big a pot do we need to win at showdown to make the call +EV. c) How often do you think that happens?For those that say fold:a) What if I held QQ?B) What if I held KK?Jeff

[screech 0]

It mostly depends on the flop 3-bettor and flop capper. I'd lean towards a fold in most situations.

[Sysvr4 0]

It mostly depends on the flop 3-bettor and flop capper. I'd lean towards a fold in most situations.

Well maybe you can give us a read on them... you were UTG+1. :)Jeff

[screech 0]

It mostly depends on the flop 3-bettor and flop capper. I'd lean towards a fold in most situations.

Well maybe you can give us a read on them... you were UTG+1. :)Jeff

Yeah I noticed you at the table, but only a few minutes before you left. I typed something in the chat, but I guess you missed it.I think I remember this hand. I ended up folding when it got back to me. I had 77. I remember I thought I was getting 4:1, and I figured a bigger pair was out. I realized after I folded that I was getting 11:2 and should have called. The pitfalls of multitabling. These guys seemed like decent players. Folding your JJ was the right play IMO.

[KDawgCometh 2]

call

this is wrong. this is an easy fold

[Actuary 3]

call

this is wrong. this is an easy fold

not easy for me!

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I like calling.Your implied odds hitting a Jack are just too good

The odds of spiking a jack on the flop aren't very good at all. We're calling 4 bets cold, here. -EV, even if we're living in implied odds paradise

[Canada 0]

3/6 on FCP. About 50 hands into my session, no reads.I have J J on the button.PreflopUTG+1 raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 1 fold, CO caps, Hero ???Jeff

Fold and stamp your feet a little bit when the Jack flops

[Briguy 0]

3/6 on FCP. About 50 hands into my session, no reads.I have J J on the button.PreflopUTG+1 raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 1 fold, CO caps, Hero ???Jeff

Fold and murder the dealer a little bit when the Jack flops

[iggymcfly 0]

In an online 3/6 game, I think this is a call without a strong read. It's too likely that there's lot of junk out, and even if someone has a better pair, you'll still flop a set often enough that you won't lose much value.If you know the capper to be a rock, than folding might be a stronger option, but in a typical 3/6 game, I'd call with JJ all day.

[Sysvr4 0]

I still refer the "call" people to my questions above and the "fold" people to my other questions above.As for calling, I think I have the best hand about 25% of the time here. CO may be capping with AK, but that's about the only hand I'm beating and an A or K will flop 1/3 of the time. By the river he'll catch one almost 50% of the time and the pot is now big enough to give him odds to chase me down on the one hand I beat PF.Let's look at this another way... in my PT database, I've had JJ 107 times and made 1.25 BB/hand with it (side note, is that good or bad?). And that's typically with me raising and/or 3-betting and building some fold equity.In this case, I'm being asked to call 4 cold (2BB) which is higher than my average for this hand. (No I didn't know this at the time) AND I have 0% fold equity.I think I call with QQ and up here but I had to let JJ go in this spot. I hated it, sure, but I'm almost sure it was the right move. Unfortunately, the board came T high and there was no showdown??? :evil:

[Canada 0]

In an online 3/6 game, I think this is a call without a strong read. It's too likely that there's lot of junk out, and even if someone has a better pair, you'll still flop a set often enough that you won't lose much value.

You need roughly an 18BB profit when you hit your set to make this profitable in the long run.There is 6 there now. You need 12 moreAssuming all 3 players come to the river thats a further 4BB eachIf an average of 2 players come all the way thats 6BB each. Every time.Not happening

[KDawgCometh 2]

As for calling, I think I have the best hand about 25% of the time here.

i think that you are being rather generous there. QQ and KK are calls. With JJ you have three overcards to mess with you, and only under the perfect situation will you just have to deal with AK as the only hand where overcards are a worry. I make this fold all day and all night at a full table

[Actuary 3]

. I make this fold all day and all night at a full table

What do you do if it's 3-bets to you with JJ? Let's say UTG+1 just limped.Are you more concerned with what a CAP indicates from CO, or that you won't profit enough to justify even when you win?thanks.

[Abbaddabba 0]

Your implied odds hitting a Jack are just too good, and you know where you're at if not.

Your set of jacks won't always be good even when you make them.And when they aren't, you're getting it up the ass.

[Canada 0]

Your implied odds hitting a Jack are just too good, and you know where you're at if not.

Your set of jacks won't always be good even when you make them.And when they aren't, you're getting it up the ass.

Sideways

[Actuary 3]

do we have to make 2x the profit when calling 4 Bets as calling 2 ?Mathematically, that seems right, but I can't apply that in practice :(If we would cap with JJ, how does that differ?If the info of CO's cap, that damning?I'm just asking.

[Abbaddabba 0]

What do you do if it's 3-bets to you with JJ? Let's say UTG+1 just limped. Are you more concerned with what a CAP indicates from CO, or that you won't profit enough to justify even when you win?

I think that changes a lot.An MP raise means less than an UTG raise, 3betting an MP raise requires less than 3betting an UTG raise, and capping requires more than both. In the case where there are three aggressors, and the chain started UTG, not only would each individual require a stronger hand than they would in the second hypothetical, and that's even before the cap.

[screech 0]

. I make this fold all day and all night at a full table

What do you do if it's 3-bets to you with JJ? Let's say UTG+1 just limped.Are you more concerned with what a CAP indicates from CO, or that you won't profit enough to justify even when you win?thanks.

Against average players (think >8% pfr), I would call.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

If we put MP1 on AK-AQ or AA-TT, he has us crushed with an overpair about ~30% of the time, he has overcards ~60% of the time, and he has TT ~10% of the time.If we give CO AK or AA-JJ, he has us crushed ~50% of the time, and has overcards ~50% of the time.Plus UTG+1 could have a big hand for his EP raise. And, although unlikely, one of the blinds could wake up with a big pair.If you can give the reraisers those ranges, then I think calling with JJ is probably a small mistake. However, many opponents won't 3-bet AQ or TT, or won't cap AK or QQ (especially since the original raise came from EP), in which case folding would clearly be the best choice. I would fold AK here as well. The fact that we hold an A and a K reduce the likelihood that we're dominated by AA or KK, but when we're not dominated, there's a very good chance that we're splitting if we win, or that at best, we're drawing against an underpair with some of our outs dead.QQ is fairly close, I think - I call unless either of the reraisers are very rockish, but I'm ready to bail if an overcard hits and there's any heat, and I'm not going to start betting like crazy without top set.