my river play is horrible

[KappaKid83 0]

So I am playing my regular game on Party this weekend, 10/20 Full-Ring, and I came to a conclusion, my river play is horrible. Most times I am best the whole hand and I know it but I refuse to bet the river and check behind for the free showdown, but a bet would have made me more money. I am losing bets in the long run and I hate it. It is my biggest leak. Any advice on how to fix this, or is it just a mental hurdle I need to cross??JEFFP.S. Thanks for the input in advance

[TheCinciKid 0]

Post hands. Without specific instances it's hard to give good advice to something this general. The only thing that strikes me is that maybe the money means too much to you at that level? If you're getting scared on the river it could mean that you're playing a little scared overall. Dunno, that's the only thing that came to mind.I think it's really important though that if you come across and hand where you think you missed value on the river or what have you, post it and let the people in here have at it. They tend to be pretty knowledgable.

[KappaKid83 0]

Its not the money, I love to gamble, I just freeze up on the river, take the free showdown and win the hand, knowing I would. Frustrating. Ill see if I can find some hands and post them. Thanks.JEFF

[TheIceman05 0]

Its not the money, I love to gamble, I just freeze up on the river, take the free showdown and win the hand, knowing I would.  Frustrating.  Ill see if I can find some hands and post them.  Thanks.JEFF

(shrug) Just start betting more. I was giving too many free showdowns, too, and noticed that people were calling turn bets they shouldn't because they KNEW it wouldn't cost them another bet to show down.So that sucked. And now I bet rivers indiscriminately. Ice

[nachunja 0]

i have similar disorder like the OPexample from earlier today)Im MP1 with AKoMP BETS, I 3-BET , all fold, MP callsFlop 2 4 10 RainbowMP checks, I raise, he callsTurn 10MP checks, I raise, he callsRiver 8MP checks, I checkA2s wins with pair of 2'sNow, IMO river should've been bet. or no?i actually was expecting a medium PP like 9's-6's.which i was afraid that he would call down the river as well.and other numerous times like i gave a freeshow down and the other guy wins with a bottom pair. whether he rivered or called down with, i think 'damn a bet would've won the pot for me'andwhen i do bet the river with mediocre hand and get reraised, i usually fold. unless i truly believe deep down in my heart that he is making a play on me.andis 51% folded to river bet normal?

[Guest Zach6668]

is 51% folded to river bet normal?

That seems quite high. Unless they are specific bet/fold instances, I think you should be seeing a showdown more than this at the lower limits. I could be wrong though, I don't know all the stats and all that pokertracker stuff yet though. In other words, I have no idea if this is high or low... Factoring in missed draws, etc, that might be about right... I have no ida... Someone else answer this for me...Zach

[TheCinciKid 0]

is 51% folded to river bet normal?

That seems quite high. Unless they are specific bet/fold instances, I think you should be seeing a showdown more than this at the lower limits. I could be wrong though, I don't know all the stats and all that pokertracker stuff yet though. In other words, I have no idea if this is high or low... Factoring in missed draws, etc, that might be about right... I have no ida... Someone else answer this for me...Zach

I just checked my own stats. It may be a little level/game dependent, but 51% is probably just a tad high. At .5/1, which I have killed on Party, my folded to river bet is 49%. At 2/4 it's 45%, and I'm probably calling down just a little too often. I think this is probably due to .5/1 players being more passive as a whole, hence it's easier to fold rivers against them. But yeah, I think 51% may be just a little high. I'm gonna go ahead and guess that something around 48-49% is probably optimal at most levels.*edit* I just checked Ishmael's stats post from 2+2. It looks like the mean for 2/4 was 45.8%, so I'd say somewhere in that general neighborhood is about right.

[econ_tim 0]

Now, IMO river should've been bet. or no?

It's virtually never correct to bet the river with unimproved AK. You can bet the river for two reasons: 1) you are ahead and your opponent will call with something worse, or 2) your opponent will fold a better hand.You could often be ahead with AK on a board like this, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea to bet. Your opponent will probably only call you with hands that beat AK. So unless you are against a jack-high calling moron, don't value bet the nut no pair.On the second count, most opponents are reluctant to fold any pair for one more bet on the end. If you know your opponent is just waiting to fold anything worse than TPTK, then go ahead and bet, but otherwise a check is in order.

[AlphaOmega 0]

So I am playing my regular game on Party this weekend, 10/20 Full-Ring, and I came to a conclusion, my river play is horrible. Most times I am best the whole hand and I know it but I refuse to bet the river and check behind for the free showdown, but a bet would have made me more money. I am losing bets in the long run and I hate it. It is my biggest leak. Any advice on how to fix this, or is it just a mental hurdle I need to cross??JEFFP.S. Thanks for the input in advance

Were you a NL player first? I had this same problem, because your hand generally has to be much stronger in NL to pull a value bet, and scare cards become scarier, so we always want to check it down safely. Or someone could be trapping us, so we always like to check behind.If you find that you are an above average player, you should probably be betting more rivers anyway because when you get there you are likely going to be ahead, a biproduct of being a winning player. Just start betting more, like someone else said, and you will be more comfortable pulling the trigger.

[reverbse 0]

It is my biggest leak. Any advice on how to fix this, or is it just a mental hurdle I need to cross??it´s really just a mental problem. i also used to miss lots of river bets (and still miss some), and you can´t just turn a switch in your head and play correct. it takes some time, but if you focus on getting these bets in, it´s not hard to overcome it. like we´ve all learned from numerous people excelling in sports: just do it.

[KappaKid83 0]

And I thought I was gonna be the only one. Thank you for all the input, I am trying to refine my play a bit playing 50/1, its working, but not where I want it to be, just gotta keep working, thanks everyoneJEFF

[KappaKid83 0]

OK so here is a great example, no hand history so Ill give a condensed version.6 Max 50/1 Game on PartyFolds to me in Cut-Off, I Raise, SB and BB call. Flop AK6 no suits, SB bets, BB calls, I raise, Both call. Turn and River are blanks, no running straight or flush cards. I bet the turn and only BB calls, but I check behind on the river and take it down. He automucks, I was so frustrated with myself.JEFFP.S. I think a better way to put my problem is, when do I bet in a MARGINAL situation on the river, these are the ones I have lots of trouble with.Edit: I posted this hand because I was trying to work on this before playing some smaller limit games, sorry about having it in this Forum

[Canada 0]

If you're practicing on smaller stake tables (good idea BTW) try this.Bet every marginal river and only think about it after it gets raised back to you. If you are using PAHud on Party you will get to see any hand that calls, so you will rapidly get a feel for what is calling you.Once you've swung the pendulum too far and are betting the river too much start moving back up in limits. The increase stakes and opponent skill levels will push you back towards a happy medium.Overall this induced leak shouldn't cost money as the games will be so soft and you will be getting a lot more value bets in. At the end of it all you'll have gotten a taste of what its like 'on the other side' and will probably find it a whole lot easier to value bet the river