pot-limit omaha question

[sweet4wks 0]

I was playin a multi-table Pl-Omaha tourney and the following situation occurred:- 48 people left top 27 cash- I'm 10th in chips with 12,000-blinds 200-400next to button i havee Ac3cKdAhmiddle positon pushes all in for 2500folded around to me i re raise pot to 10,000bb pushes me all in for remaining chips he has 17,000+ in chips- I call it was like another 1500 to me- question is do i lay down AA preflop with the big stack behind me knowing that its a coin flip in omaha.....or was my reraise the right move to make him see if he wants to gamble %60 of his stack---by the way he called me with a doubled suited hand with connectors and busted me with a straight but I wanted to know how to play AA pre-flop in omaha in that situation? thank you

[alf13 0]

I was playin a multi-table Pl-Omaha tourney and the following situation occurred:- 48 people left top 27 cash- I'm 10th in chips with 12,000-blinds 200-400next to button i havee Ac3cKdAhmiddle positon pushes all in for 2500folded around to me i re raise pot to 10,000bb pushes me all in for remaining chips he has 17,000+ in chips- I call it was like another 1500 to me- question is do i lay down AA preflop with the big stack behind me knowing that its a coin flip in omaha.....or was my reraise the right move to make him see if he wants to gamble %60 of his stack---by the way he called me with a doubled suited hand with connectors and busted me with a straight but I wanted to know how to play AA pre-flop in omaha in that situation? thank you

If your hand was double suited I would have loved your re-raise....as your hand was...it was a very good PLO tourney hand....If this were a cash game...i would have called you a donkey....Your play in this tourney hand was pretty good.....that other guy was just in the mood to gamble...I like your play.PLO MTT.....lag play is very much rewarded.Good job.The flip side is...you call...and that other guy gets in then pots you...WTF do you do now?I see only two things you could have done....pot it and isolate...or fold....you did the right thing....NH.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I was playin a multi-table Pl-Omaha tourney and the following situation occurred:- 48 people left top 27 cash- I'm 10th in chips with 12,000-blinds 200-400next to button i havee Ac3cKdAhmiddle positon pushes all in for 2500folded around to me i re raise pot to 10,000bb pushes me all in for remaining chips he has 17,000+ in chips- I call it was like another 1500 to me- question is do i lay down AA preflop with the big stack behind me knowing that its a coin flip in omaha.....or was my reraise the right move to make him see if he wants to gamble %60 of his stack---by the way he called me with a doubled suited hand with connectors and busted me with a straight but I wanted to know how to play AA pre-flop in omaha in that situation? thank you

If your hand was double suited I would have loved your re-raise....as your hand was...it was a very good PLO tourney hand....If this were a cash game...i would have called you a donkey....

What? Donkey?Say this was a cash game, Hero had Ac3cKdAh and had $12,000. Before the action got to him, the pot was $3100.Hero raised to $10,000 with ~$2000 left (Position didn't matter since he's got very little left which also means there's no implied odds for the others).If I could I wish everyone would put $12000 in preflop.He's priced in.Explain why his raise was donkish?

[alf13 0]

What? Donkey?Say this was a cash game, Hero had Ac3cKdAh and had $12,000. Before the action got to him, the pot was $3100.Hero raised to $10,000 with ~$2000 left (Position didn't matter since he's got very little left which also means there's no implied odds for the others).If I could I wish everyone would put $12000 in preflop.He's priced in.Explain why his raise was donkish?

If this was a cash game....yeah...it's a tough one...I see your point...Personally...I just Hate Mediocre AAxx PLO hands...

[Fritzmania 0]

There's a very simple reason as to why you don't jam a pot before the flop in Omaha: you are never a big favorite pre-flop and are often just better than a coin flip.Now, you can often argue, "Well, I got my money in with the best hand." True, but you are taking a big gamble. Your call of his raise here was a no-brainer; you were more than priced in. S0 overall, this was just an unfortunate loss.In general, remember that Omaha is an "after the flop" game.

[KVOM 0]

I think just calling the initial all-in raise is correct in a tournament. The BB will likely call and check it down trying to eliminate the all-in player. If he bets post-flop that's a danger sign that the flop hit him.The blinds are so small that the "isolation" raise seems too risky for me. The 2500 call should keep any other moderate hands out of the pot.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

There's a very simple reason as to why you don't jam a pot before the flop in Omaha: you are never a big favorite pre-flop and are often just better than a coin flip.Now, you can often argue, "Well, I got my money in with the best hand." True, but you are taking a big gamble. Your call of his raise here was a no-brainer; you were more than priced in. S0 overall, this was just an unfortunate loss.In general, remember that Omaha is an "after the flop" game.

True it's a gamble. Is it a +EV gamble? Yes.If I can put all my money in with a slight positive edge, I will do it a million times out of a million times.That's how casinos make money on Roulette, Bacarrat, ... they make money in the long run over little edges, like 53:47 in Bacarrat.

[KVOM 0]

I think the argument about +EV on a hand is less applicable in a tournament, where if you bust out you can't rebuy. The negative (being eliminated) may not balance out the positive here. I would want a higher +EV to risk it all at that point, where you are near average in chips or above.

[Fritzmania 0]

If you read Ray Zee's book, he does discuss this. TJ Cloutier also goes into this in detail.You are raising a pot because you either want to build the pot or thin the field. Now, if your inention on thinning the field does not work, that is not necessarily a negative. What you're saying is, "I can play for higher stakes on the hands that I have an advantage in."As KVOM said, I believe this is more applicable when playing cash stakes or when the tourney blinds are still relatively low.This is a good topic starter because I just started researching this very thing today (the EV of this play). I've got a few sources in mind, but it's going to take a while.

[Fritzmania 0]

Well, I just ran some numbers which I found pretty interesting. Here were the approximate odds on this hand...1. A -3 -K -A Hi:29.46%Tie:0.01%EE: 0.295 2. Q -J -10 -9 Hi:42.70%Tie:0.01%EE: 0.427 3 . A -4 -5 -6 Hi:27.83%EE: 0.278 Kind of interesting, eh? I just guessed on the hand the other guy might have pushed all-in with.

[sweet4wks 0]

thanks for the input and replies

[srblan 0]

Fritz, if you'd run the hands with a connector hand that didn't duplicate suits, or something like J 10 9 8, the EV might even be higher.