ScottK2001 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 My friend sent me this question in an e-mail, and we disagree on the response. Any thoughts would be much appreciated... Ok - first hand of a tournament in Vegas (100 Entrants at $100 each, start with 1000 chips, blinds 10-20). You have JJ in the big blind. Guy who is fifth to act goes all in at a ten-person table. Everyone else folds to you. Do you call? Also, does your decision change if you have QQ?Thanks again! Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 no i fold, and i fold with QQnext question?edit: 1000 chips with blinds at 10/20 to start is poop.was this just an example? if so at least stick with the comon 1500 in chips Link to post Share on other sites
CodyHartman 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 no i fold, and i fold with QQnext question?edit: 1000 chips with blinds at 10/20 to start is poop.was this just an example? if so at least stick with the comon 1500 in chipsOK then Royal how about KK??? Link to post Share on other sites
JSHamm 9 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I set the pair of Jacks on fire and throw them in Eskimo Clark's beard.The Queens I muck. Link to post Share on other sites
justblaze 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 My friend sent me this question in an e-mail, and we disagree on the response. Any thoughts would be much appreciated... Ok - first hand of a tournament in Vegas (100 Entrants at $100 each, start with 1000 chips, blinds 10-20). You have JJ in the big blind. Guy who is fifth to act goes all in at a ten-person table. Everyone else folds to you. Do you call? Also, does your decision change if you have QQ?Thanks again!fold, and fold. next question. still dont understand? heres why. think about the range of hands villain moves in with here. If hes extremely stupid, he might move in with AK-AJ, AA-99, and the minute amount of time this is a stone cold bluff is so small its useless to consider (i would say less than 2%). this range is ludicrously wide for this scenario, and most likely his range is exactly two hands, but we will ignore that. with JJ, your equity against this range is 52%, with QQ its 60%. This means that against the best-case scenario hand range, you are basically flipping coins. if we remove the AJ and 99 from villains range, you now have 46% and 53% equity, respectively. of course, in reality villains hand range is likely AA, KK, and for some reckless players AK, and you can guess the obvious equity implications of that range. I agree with wanting to accumulate chips, but you need to find spots where flipping coins is the worst case scenario, not the best case. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 OK then Royal how about KK???well, thats a lot different, only 1 hand has you dominated, and theres no real "race situation"You either have them dominated or you are dominated.With ZERO information on this guy, and it being the 1st hand, i would want to fold.But the fact that he pushed all in the very first hand with blinds that low tells me he does have a good hand, and probably one he doesnt know how to play very well.Too many people hate not getting action with AA, but at the same time, they hate missing flops with AK in a raised pot.so i'd call with KK if villain pushes preflop 1st hand thinking he holds something like AK and is trying to get called by another strong Ax hand.It doesnt make any sense to steal blinds here. sooo, we have to imagine he wants a call, but isnt good enough to play his particular hand post flop. Link to post Share on other sites
missIdaho 1 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Easy fold both ways. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 My friend sent me this question in an e-mail, and we disagree on the response. Any thoughts would be much appreciated... Ok - first hand of a tournament in Vegas (100 Entrants at $100 each, start with 1000 chips, blinds 10-20). You have JJ in the big blind. Guy who is fifth to act goes all in at a ten-person table. Everyone else folds to you. Do you call? Also, does your decision change if you have QQ?Thanks again! fold, and fold. next question. aww look, blaze sounds like me. hehe Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 fold with jj fold with qq fold with kk,,,,, Link to post Share on other sites
gatortom64 1 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Fold with AA for split pot. Call all in with 45 suited. Take pot with A23. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Fold JJ and QQ.KK i'm most likely folding unless the tourney has a shit structure. Link to post Share on other sites
HoosierAlum 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 fold with jj fold with qq fold with kk,,,,,Thats terrible advice Iveyfan.... Link to post Share on other sites
Fullhouse7 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 THrow it away or donate to charities--more +ev in that Link to post Share on other sites
Tantalar 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 A good player relies on outplaying bad players after the flop. A bad player relies on going all in Pre flop so he doesnt have to try to outplay a good player after the flop.I guess if your a bad player, and you came to gamble (like 80% of the field who sucks at poker) then sure, call all in with JJ, or QQ. If your lucky you might be up against a coinflip. More likely your up against AA or KK. Theres no reason for even a MANIAC to go all in pre flop like that with anything BUT AA or KK. Unless you know the person and you know that they are super agressive and crazy, you just cant make that call. Furthermore are you the only two in the pot or is there someone UTG-4th position? It was mentioned that there is hand equity of 52% That is irellivant. Why does it not matter you ask? Well why would you want a coinflip? you COOOULLD be the favorite, but you COUUULLDD be a huge underdog. You might even be against a hand with any ace in it, in which case you are only like 67ish% to win. Why in the first hand of a tournament would you want to risk your stack like that? I hope you know to fold AK here too. It's just too early. Call with KK, AA, fold everything else. Some could make a case for folding KK. (your going to lose 30% when your against any ace anyway) Link to post Share on other sites
ScottK2001 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Author Share Posted December 12, 2005 The one person's rationale is that the guy probably has 88 or 99 or 66. If he has AA or KK, the thinkings is that someone is not going to go all in on the first hand because he's just going to get 30 chips. They would raise strong or completely limp, but all in makes no sense at all with a hand like that. With a middle pair, you want to win the pot, but there are so many ways you can lose you might be better off pushing all in to scare away the JJ from calling a simple raise. A guy who goes all in on the first hand DOESN'T have a diesel AA or KK because it's such a ridiculous play to make. Thus, for that reason you should call with JJ.Along those lines, isn't worth noting that the all-in raise with 88 got most of you to lay down the JJ? Link to post Share on other sites
The Bwaves 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I'm re-raising all day. (sw) Link to post Share on other sites
Socrates 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 JJ and QQ I'm folding. The tourney has a crappy structure so you can't afford to fold KK - besides, it's only $100 I may hactually call with AJ off in that situation. If I double up fine, if not, I go the next crappy tournament for $100 that will start 15 minutes later. Link to post Share on other sites
teneight 1 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 fold and fold Link to post Share on other sites
Dr_Shakes 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 The one person's rationale is that the guy probably has 88 or 99 or 66. If he has AA or KK, the thinkings is that someone is not going to go all in on the first hand because he's just going to get 30 chips. They would raise strong or completely limp, but all in makes no sense at all with a hand like that. With a middle pair, you want to win the pot, but there are so many ways you can lose you might be better off pushing all in to scare away the JJ from calling a simple raise. A guy who goes all in on the first hand DOESN'T have a diesel AA or KK because it's such a ridiculous play to make. Thus, for that reason you should call with JJ.Along those lines, isn't worth noting that the all-in raise with 88 got most of you to lay down the JJ?And look at that huge pot you won with them. When you would have hit your set and milked us for half to all our stack on a low board. nice play! :wink: Link to post Share on other sites
JBradburn6 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Kings are the only hand that's worth debating. QQ and JJ just toss, and AA is obviously a call. I don't know, thinking about it I'm leaning towards calling but I think in that situation I would probably end up folding it. Link to post Share on other sites
flash420 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Just go with your best read of the situation. If you think that you're the best hand then call. The only thing that you have to realize is that if you're going to call, then your tournament could end at that moment. If you really care about advancing, then lay it down. If you want to win and nothing else then call if you think that you're ahead. Otherwise why play!!! If you're that good, go make you $100 back in the live game. Link to post Share on other sites
PAYforUSC 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 easy fold with JJ or QQ... i call with KK. if i go out on the first hand of a tourney with KK to a stupid play so be it. give me chips early or save me time and send me home. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeepster80125 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I actually asked Matt Mattros to answer this question. Naturally, I have the software that Tritz sold to Lee Jones and JetBlue, so I know the answer. But he was nice enough to write an article just for me. But I already knew that as well. You see, I knew you would ask this question, and so I asked Matt to write it awhile back. Here is the link.http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...5093&m_id=65576Signed,J Link to post Share on other sites
PocketRocks 0 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I would fold, it is simply too early in the tournie to take that risk. The small pot is not worth the call. Pretty easy fold if you ask me Link to post Share on other sites
ShakeZuma 585 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I actually asked Matt Mattros to answer this question. Naturally, I have the software that Tritz sold to Lee Jones and JetBlue, so I know the answer. But he was nice enough to write an article just for me. But I already knew that as well. You see, I knew you would ask this question, and so I asked Matt to write it awhile back. Here is the link.http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...5093&m_id=65576Signed,JBut his article is about a guaranteed coinflip. This scenario is a bit more ambibuous where JJ could be a big favorite or a big underdog.Personally I'd fold and wait for a better chance to get chips from a moron that goes all in in this position. Link to post Share on other sites
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