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Does the FCP online engine burn a card like normal hold em?I recently found out that riverstars, ummm, pokerstars does not burn a card like normal hold em. to most the burn card seems meaningless. However, in the true interest of statistics, the game is fundamentally differant statistically when the X's change, even by 1 or 2 or 3. Each trial is changed by at least 2 percent. Repeated hundreds to thousands of times a great variance is seen. Draw two parralell lines and they continue paralel infinitely. Place the top line 1 to 2 degrees off of the bottom line and eventually the lines are not parralell. Even if the line is just .1 or .2 the variance increases the further you get from the start. I carry a small deck of cards to run hands when i am out and i get bored, so I demonstrated over lunch how hands are played differantly without a burn card to a friend of mine that also plays poker (and is pretty good imo). The premise was that you were playing six-handed Donkey poker and everyone was seeing the flop. Out of about 20 trials only three had the same winner with or without a burn card. However, how the hand played out was completely differant. Differant players would have been competing for the pot. The remainder of the hands showed differant winners and differant ways the hands would have played out. Mind you, this was a purely imperical test and semi-bluffing and bluffing was not really taken into account, even though he and I did talk about which hands would semi-bluff. But I would really like to know if the FCP engine burns a card or not.

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With all due respect, you dont have the first clue about stats or the statistical effects of a burn card.

However, in the true interest of statistics, the game is fundamentally differant statistically when the X's change, even by 1 or 2 or 3. Each trial is changed by at least 2 percent.
I have soooo many problems with this paragraph. 2% is it? 2% of what? If you're going to quantify, tell us what you measured to get 2%. Which X changed? And by 1 or 2 or 3 what did the X change? I sure hope this post is a jopke. Each trial is absolutely 100% dependant on exactly which cards form the board. It is very easy to show that for any hand, burn card or no burn card makes a great deal of difference in terms of who will win. In the long run, the only thing that matters is that the cards that form the board are essentially random. ie uniform in distribution, and unpredictable in real time by the players. Burn card or not, this is satisfied by the RNGs of all major poker sites.
Repeated hundreds to thousands of times a great variance is seen. Draw two parralell lines and they continue paralel infinitely. Place the top line 1 to 2 degrees off of the bottom line and eventually the lines are not parralell. Even if the line is just .1 or .2 the variance increases the further you get from the start.
Variance disapears over great numbers of trials... it's not amplified. Each trial is an independant event, and the results of the first few dont have any lasting effect. Over 10 hands, one player could easily be dealt 10 consecutive winning hands in a heads-up situation. (well "easily" as in about 1 in 2000 chance). After 100,000 hands, I would expect both players to have been dealt the winning hand almost exactly 50% of the time. And your analogy is wrong. Draw two parallel lines, but start one further along the page so it has a 2 inch head-start. Now extend each of them them for 100,000 inches. How much farther down the page is line 1 relative to line 2? Umm...oh....still just 2 inches. That's how relevant winning the first 2 games is in a trial of 100,000. Not relevant. At all.
Out of about 20 trials only three had the same winner with or without a burn card. However, how the hand played out was completely differant. Differant players would have been competing for the pot. The remainder of the hands showed differant winners and differant ways the hands would have played out.
So? The results of individual trials, and who won each hand are completely meaningless. It's not even statistcal evidence.
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Does the FCP online engine burn a card like normal hold em?I recently found out that riverstars, ummm, pokerstars does not burn a card like normal hold em. to most the burn card seems meaningless. However, in the true interest of statistics, the game is fundamentally differant statistically when the X's change, even by 1 or 2 or 3. Each trial is changed by at least 2 percent. Repeated hundreds to thousands of times a great variance is seen. Draw two parralell lines and they continue paralel infinitely. Place the top line 1 to 2 degrees off of the bottom line and eventually the lines are not parralell. Even if the line is just .1 or .2 the variance increases the further you get from the start. I carry a small deck of cards to run hands when i am out and i get bored, so I demonstrated over recess how hands are played differantly without a burn card to a friend of mine that also plays poker (and is pretty good imo). The premise was that you were playing six-handed Donkey poker and everyone was seeing the flop. Out of about 20 trials only three had the same winner with or without a burn card. However, how the hand played out was completely differant. Differant players would have been competing for the pot. The remainder of the hands showed differant winners and differant ways the hands would have played out. Mind you, this was a purely imperical test and semi-bluffing and bluffing was not really taken into account, even though he and I did talk about which hands would semi-bluff. But I would really like to know if the FCP engine burns a card or not.
FYP
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The thing is, live poker is live poker. If one wants to simulate the live poker environment accurately then one should simulate all that is possible. If the burn card is not important then why not play seven stud with the first two cards up, the middle 3 down, and the last two up? fundamentally each player gets 3 cards down and four up. It is the same game. Isnt it?But back to the point. Each card is about 1.9231 percent. Meaning at the flop there is a 1.0231 differance. On the turn a 3.8462 differance, On the river a 5.7692 differance. X out of 39 is differant than X out of 40X out of 36 is differant than X out of 37X out of 34 is differant than X out of 36X out of 32 is differant than X out of 35Run a hundred hands yourself and tell me that the same person that would win in brick and mortar would win online without the burn cards? Tell me the hands would play the same? You cannot tell me those things and be honest. There are fundamental differances. If you are playing online to learn then don't you want to learn in the closest environment that you can to the real thing? Or would you rather adapt a feel for a differant game?Do you know about the House Edge and the fact that is what casinos running? Wether it be a 2%, .2%, or .02% percent edge per trial, the more trials the further off you are the further you go away from origin. Look at slot advertisements that say 98% payback. Simply put that is 49% for you with the house having 1% edge on trial one. Then take .5% off from 49% for trial 2 leaving a 48.5 edge for you. Roll that down and eventually you hit 0%. Sure one will win some here and there but most likely, according to reality, one will gamble those winnings away unless it is a large sum. BUT given the intrinsic nature of irregular rewards that person will be hooked on gambling chasing that big score and in the end give back more money than they won. But enough of psychology. Seriously, try it out for yourself. See for yourself how the hands play out differantly. Did any of you try out the experiment for yourself before you snapped off a response? Or did you read an article somewhere about statistically there is no differance? Try the experiment and see for yourself how the hands play out differantly. It is like mucking out of turn. It can effect how someone ahead of you calls, bets, raises, or mucks. There are fundamentals to the game that make it what it is. It is like why not talk about what you folded? Those cards are out of play what effect would they have on how others played?I do know why you don't do those things. They give an advantage to those still in the hand because it affects the way the hand is played out. Am I the only one that considers pot odds versus odds of improving or odds against my opponent(s) improving off of hands that I put them on?If I am not then you would apprecaite how much of a differance 2%,4% or 6% has on those calculations. Those that can shape a deck to whatever they desire are not foiled by a burn card or three burn cards. The truly skilled can make a deck produce whatever card they want when they want and to who they want.One is going to be in on several hey hands and a small percentage here or there is important. Ya, position play is not important either, what does it matter where you have what. Everything should be played the same in every position.

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sometime its funnier to think about the OP's thought process before posting.."wow, i have been getting my a$$ kicked today... you know what? it can't be my fault... THIS SITE DOESN"T BURN ANY OF ITS CARDS"" even though the entire concept of online poker would make this seem inconsequential... it just has to be the reason my Aces got cracked... there is no other possible explanation, I will post this on FCP and I will gain the respect of the hundreds of people who usually flame every single post ever made...., i'm sure they will agree with my faulty concepts!"PS - two pair should beat trips if you have one of each card in your hand.

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Why don't you just count all the cards that are in the muck, if they're not random? (EDIT: They should change your %'s too, shouldnt they...swHow are muck cards different than burn cards?)Since you dont know what the card is, it changes no %'s. Talk to the statistics teacher in your high school, and he'll tell you that you're wrong.Wow, I've never seen someone misunderstand statistics so much. I'm a math major with emphasis on probability and statistics, trust me YOU ARE WRONG, Tsosumi.

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The thing is, live poker is live poker. If one wants to simulate the live poker environment accurately then one should simulate all that is possible. If the burn card is not important then why not play seven stud with the first two cards up, the middle 3 down, and the last two up? fundamentally each player gets 3 cards down and four up. It is the same game. Isnt it?contrived argument. changing the structure of the game changes the information players receive. not burning a card has no such effect. But back to the point. Each card is about 1.9231 percent. Meaning at the flop there is a 1.0231 differance. On the turn a 3.8462 differance, On the river a 5.7692 differance. X out of 39 is differant than X out of 40X out of 36 is differant than X out of 37X out of 34 is differant than X out of 36X out of 32 is differant than X out of 351.9 percent of what. you have no idea what you are talking about, do you?Run a hundred hands yourself and tell me that the same person that would win in brick and mortar would win online without the burn cards? Tell me the hands would play the same? completely irrelevant. all that matters is that the distribution of outcomes on those 100 hands do not change. which they dont. You cannot tell me those things and be honest. There are fundamental differances. If you are playing online to learn then don't you want to learn in the closest environment that you can to the real thing? Or would you rather adapt a feel for a differant game?you have not provided a fundamental difference in the distribution of outcomes. you have provided anecdotal (and completely incorrect) arguments about a subject you obviously know very little about. Do you know about the House Edge and the fact that is what casinos running? Wether it be a 2%, .2%, or .02% percent edge per trial, the more trials the further off you are the further you go away from origin. that made no sense, whatsoever. and its whether. and house edge is not a proper noun. Look at slot advertisements that say 98% payback. Simply put that is 49% for you with the house having 1% edge on trial one. Then take .5% off from 49% for trial 2 leaving a 48.5 edge for you. Roll that down and eventually you hit 0%. Sure one will win some here and there but most likely, according to reality, one will gamble those winnings away unless it is a large sum. BUT given the intrinsic nature of irregular rewards that person will be hooked on gambling chasing that big score and in the end give back more money than they won. But enough of psychology. the house edge in poker comes from rake. even you, in your inane mumblings, cannot begin to tell me removing burn cards increases rake. Seriously, try it out for yourself. See for yourself how the hands play out differantly. Did any of you try out the experiment for yourself before you snapped off a response? Or did you read an article somewhere about statistically there is no differance? Try the experiment and see for yourself how the hands play out differantly. IT DOES NOT MATTER THAT THE INDIVIDUAL HANDS PLAY DIFFERENTLY.It is like mucking out of turn. It can effect how someone ahead of you calls, bets, raises, or mucks. There are fundamentals to the game that make it what it is. It is like why not talk about what you folded? Those cards are out of play what effect would they have on how others played?The two examples you give affect the game by giving information to players they should not have. your burn card theory involves no gain or loss of information. stay on topic, shooter. I do know why you don't do those things. They give an advantage to those still in the hand because it affects the way the hand is played out. Am I the only one that considers pot odds versus odds of improving or odds against my opponent(s) improving off of hands that I put them on?If I am not then you would apprecaite how much of a differance 2%,4% or 6% has on those calculations. Those that can shape a deck to whatever they desire are not foiled by a burn card or three burn cards. The truly skilled can make a deck produce whatever card they want when they want and to who they want.burn cards are not designed to prevent mechanics from setting decks. they are designed to prevent players from reading marked cards.One is going to be in on several hey hands and a small percentage here or there is important. Ya, position play is not important either, what does it matter where you have what. Everything should be played the same in every position.so, in conclusion, you have no clue about the purpose of a burn card, dont know anything about cheating, have listed percentages that dont correspond to anything, have cited 'house edge' as a factor when it clearly has no bearing, and realistically have absolutely no idea what you are arguing about. good post.
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Tsosumi, please come to me and teach me your mathematical ways.I long to understand how over time the effect of random chance on random chance produces a steady change in result skewed toward certain players.I must know the secrets to posting statistical constructs with great authority based on a sample size of twenty.I need to be taught how changing the rules of Stud is equal to eliminating a safety mechanism built into Hold'Em which has the purpose of preventing people from cheating.Please, shower me with your numbers and decimal points until I bleed the truth!

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Differant players would have been competing for the pot. The remainder of the hands showed differant winners and differant ways the hands would have played out.
genius at work.
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