$30 sng on stars... questionable play

[BigFish 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxButton (t3535)SB (t1050)BangUrMom (t2708)UTG (t6207)Preflop: BangUrMom is BB with [6d], [6h]. 1 fold, BangUrMom calls t300.Flop: (t975) [5c], [8d], [7s] (2 players)BangUrMom bets t450, BangUrMom calls t450.Turn: (t2775) [Td] (2 players)BangUrMom checks, Button bets t750, BangUrMom calls t750.River: (t4275) [3h] (2 players)BangUrMom checks, Button bets t1435 (All-In)The button player was quite loose/aggressive. Final Pot: t5710

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxButton (t3535)SB (t1050)BangUrMom (t2708)UTG (t6207)Preflop: BangUrMom is BB with [6d], [6h].    1 fold, BangUrMom calls t300.Flop: (t975) [5c], [8d], [7s] (2 players)BangUrMom bets t450, BangUrMom calls t450.Turn: (t2775) [Td] (2 players)BangUrMom checks, Button bets t750, BangUrMom calls t750.River: (t4275) [3h] (2 players)BangUrMom checks, Button bets t1435 (All-In)The button player was quite loose/aggressive.  Final Pot: t5710

I get this all in on the flop after getting min-raised.You know you probably 8 clean outs, and you might even have two more with your set, making you anywhere from 33% to 40%.Errr..I guess third place is where the pay structure starts? Um. I dunno.I suppose it's push the flop or fold for me then. I probably push since you've already got about half your stack in on the flop by just smooth calling his min-raise.

[Merby 3]

I get this all in on the flop after getting min-raised.You know you probably 8 clean outs, and you might even have two more with your set, making you anywhere from 33% to 40%.Errr..I guess third place is where the pay structure starts?  Um.  I dunno.I suppose it's push the flop or fold for me then.  I probably push since you've already got about half your stack in on the flop by just smooth calling his min-raise.

I completely agree with DrawingDeadInDM. On the flop, after he min-raises you, you will have put half your stack in to call. To me, that is decision time: either we push now, or we fold. You are risking half your stack on a draw to 8 or 10 outs on the flop: the draw will not arrive often enough to just call him down. I recommend pushing, as you gain enough fold equity (in my mind) to make up for the times where he calls and wins.Cheers,Merby

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I get this all in on the flop after getting min-raised.You know you probably 8 clean outs, and you might even have two more with your set, making you anywhere from 33% to 40%.Errr..I guess third place is where the pay structure starts?  Um.  I dunno.I suppose it's push the flop or fold for me then.  I probably push since you've already got about half your stack in on the flop by just smooth calling his min-raise.

I completely agree with DrawingDeadInDM. On the flop, after he min-raises you, you will have put half your stack in to call. To me, that is decision time: either we push now, or we fold. You are risking half your stack on a draw to 8 or 10 outs on the flop: the draw will not arrive often enough to just call him down. I recommend pushing, as you gain enough fold equity (in my mind) to make up for the times where he calls and wins.Cheers,Merby

Yeah, the more I consider this, the more I think just calling the min-raise is super weak. You need to push or fold, regardless of pay out. SB is shortstacked, so you may or may not be inclined to just fold, but you need to do one of the two. I agree that we pick up enough fold equity for times we're called and lose.

[BigFish 0]

OK but the reason I left out my action on the river was to get info as to what I should do on the river.

[pokerplayer24 0]

I'd be much more inclinded to push on this river instead of check/calling.As is push on the flop. You can fold a lot of hands and you have a ton of outs if behind.

[Merby 3]

OK but the reason I left out my action on the river was to get info as to what I should do on the river.

Ok I will answer this.By the time it gets to the river, there are three overcards to your sixes, a straight, and an opponent who has shown strength on all streets. Even though you have a read on him as being LAG, I say you win this showdown roughly 5 percent of the time (at best). After all, even LAG players have to get cards on occasion. Indeed, he may have been bluffing and backed in to a better pair than your sixes.Nevertheless, before you automatically click <fold>, you have just committed 2100 of your original 2700 chips to this draw. If you fold here, you become the short stack with 600 chips remaining. That is four big blinds. I don't think you can afford to fold this hand, since 4 BB has nearly guarenteed a fourth place finish anyway. -->If you call, 95% of the time you are out in fourth, but the other 5% of the time you become instant chip leader--> If you fold, most of the time you are out in fourth, with the occasional slinking into the money (probably to be knocked out in third...)This above argument should also hammer the point of my original post home:The decision time for this hand is on the flop, not on the turn and definitely not on the river.Cheers,Merby

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

River play; You've got too many of your chips into this pot allready to fold. Call and hope he just has AK.Your best play was still to push on the flop, though.

[offmandh 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxButton (t3535)SB (t1050)BangUrMom (t2708)UTG (t6207)Preflop: BangUrMom is BB with [6d], [6h]. 1 fold, BangUrMom calls t300.Flop: (t975) [5c], [8d], [7s] (2 players)BangUrMom bets t450, BangUrMom calls t450.Turn: (t2775) [Td] (2 players)BangUrMom checks, Button bets t750, BangUrMom calls t750.River: (t4275) [3h] (2 players)BangUrMom checks, Button bets t1435 (All-In)The button player was quite loose/aggressive. Final Pot: t5710

I get this all in on the flop after getting min-raised.You know you probably 8 clean outs, and you might even have two more with your set, making you anywhere from 33% to 40%.Errr..I guess third place is where the pay structure starts? Um. I dunno.I suppose it's push the flop or fold for me then. I probably push since you've already got about half your stack in on the flop by just smooth calling his min-raise.

mmmmm. i agree. check raising all in on the flop is the play i would make. some pros might even just move in there too. theres a jen harmon article on her website that is a hand just like this where she decided teh correct play was to just push, but im not sure what the stack sizes are on this hand. definately end it on hte flop though.

[BigFish 0]

Well I feel as though I did misplay the hand quite a bit. Checking on the flop would have been the optimal play, and at that point decide what to do. There was really no point to my bet unless I am prepared to fold or move all in after a raise. I decided on folding on the river figuring that he couldnt risk almost all of his remaining chips with no pair, as it appeared I would call him down with almost any hand.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Well I feel as though I did misplay the hand quite a bit. Checking on the flop would have been the optimal play, and at that point decide what to do. There was really no point to my bet unless I am prepared to fold or move all in after a raise. I decided on folding on the river figuring that he couldnt risk almost all of his remaining chips with no pair, as it appeared I would call him down with almost any hand.

Eh.Yeah.I understand this, since, it was kinda, misplayed from the get go.I think in a similar situation you've got to press the issue on the flop.