do i re-raise this river? (set of 9s)

[stonecrow 0]

Villain 40% VP$IP, PAF 0.5His super low post flop aggression and still calling me down, then with the raise on the river scared me a little.. :)Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxUTG+1 ($86.78)UTG+2 ($9.40)MP1 ($47)Hero ($100.15)MP3 ($64.32)CO ($51.28)Button ($48.30)SB ($78.42)BB ($42.75)UTG ($38.67)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with [9s], [9d]. SB posts a blind of $0.25. 3 folds, BB checks.Flop: ($1.75) [2s], [9c], [Th] (3 players)BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.5, BB folds, MP1 calls $0.50.Turn: ($2.75) [3d] (2 players)MP1 checks, Hero bets $1.5, MP1 calls $1.50.River: ($5.75) [Jh] (2 players)MP1 checks, Hero bets $5, Hero calls $5.Final Pot: $25.75

[Merby 3]

Don't reraise:You have shown strength throughout the hand and have now been reraised the minimum on the river. From the villian's point of view, you have been representing a made hand (either top pair or better) and have been charging the draws. A jack falls on the river, completing the straight draw. There are a couple of possibilities:1) Villian had 78 or (less likely) 8Q or QK and just completed the straight. If you raise here, expect to be reraised all-in (based on your play, the villian *knows* you do not have a straight). 2) Villian had JQ or J8 and his straight draw turned into top pair on the river. He's raising because a) straight draw came in and B) a pair of tens will probably call the extra $5.If you reraise here, I think it is highly unlikely he will call, so you will not win any more money here.3) The raise is a bluff. Then clearly you will not win any more money from him. I think this is unlikely.4) He was calling with a pair (tens or nines?) and rivered two pair. Based on his play, I think this is highly unlikely.To sum it up, if you reraise here, only hands that beat you will call/raise you. Therefore your raise will not win any more money, and may lose to a better hand.Cheers,Merby

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

No.I think you're ahead enough times to warrant a call, but behind enough to make it a bad raise.

[Dynon07 0]

Yeah I really wouldn't recommend a reraise here normally. You definetly gave the ideal draws a good price to hit their straights. Like Merby said, 78 could have called down easily and you bet so little that someone who had QK would have figured a Jack , and Queen , or a King was good. Most of the time reraising here will only put you to a super tough decision. Since you lost lead of the hand you are probably beat. Save yourself a tough decision and just call.

[stonecrow 0]

No.I think you're ahead enough times to warrant a call, but behind enough to make it a bad raise.

In fact I did only call and villain showed AA resulting me taking down the pot.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

No.I think you're ahead enough times to warrant a call, but behind enough to make it a bad raise.

In fact I did only call and villain showed AA resulting me taking down the pot.

Might possibly be the worst AA play I've ever seen in my life, but, you'll have that.I still don't raise this.I think the straight gets there enough times to make it a bad raise. In limit, maybe, not here though. If you raise and get re-raised, your play is ?

[GeneralKong 0]

On the river yeah everyone is probably right you should have just called, but what the F are you doing betting so little and giving the guy major odds to call you. Even though you are playing a .25/.50 table you're playing like you've got a chihuaha's balls. Go out and get yourself some elaphantitis of the testicles and throw down a decent bet on the flop (ideally 2-3) Then you have a decent pot sized pot going to the turn. Make it pot + %50. You could take down the pot here easily if you do think he's on the straight draw and if he reraises you, you can still push with the almost-nuts. You seriously need to bet youre hand like its a hand and not a teacup.-GeneralKong

[Naismith 0]

I would re-raise here, which I can tell is not the majority opinion.Personally, I think more often than not this is going to be J10 making two pair or QJ pairing up on the river, unless you specificly know the player you're up against is good enough that neither of those hands would be raised on the river.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I would re-raise here, which I can tell is not the majority opinion.Personally, I think more often than not this is going to be J10 making two pair or QJ pairing up on the river, unless you specificly know the player you're up against is good enough that neither of those hands would be raised on the river.

The min-raise wreaks of strength. I don't want to re-raise into the nuts, which he could very well have. What if we re-raise, and he comes back over the top for our whole stack..?Break out the Pepto Bismol.Not a real fun decision to make, and I know, I've been there.

[Dynon07 0]

I would reraise most of the time only if he played his hand differently throughout the hand. If you choose to play your hand all fancy like that, you have to possess enough discipline to not go ballistic after all the draws hit. So in that situation its better to not stress yourself with a difficult decision and just call. If he had bet the hand a lot harder and picked up a better read on his opponent THEN I might lean toward reraising a lot more on the river. Most of the time 10 J and such would just call, and reraise on river when they think they snubbed you. Still can't ever go wrong just calling in that situation. Might save your ass a few times.

[iggymcfly 0]

Nah, you don't want to reraise the river. Too much of the action you'll get will bust your whole stack. The flop bet is absolutely ridiculous though. You have middle set, meaning that top pair is still likely to be out to call you, and you have a drawing flop, so you have to bet at least half the pot, and you'd be better off betting close to the size of the pot. Betting $2 on the flop, and $6 on the turn would be a lot better chance to get paid off then trying to reraise in a bad spot on the river. If you'd done that, not only would you entice the raise from those big pairs you are trying to get to pay you off; you might fold those open-ended straight draws that could easily have stuck around to catch you on the river.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

**Edited to reflect the fact I've completely lost my mind.**

[Merby 3]

Actually, after reviewing this, I don't think raising is a terrible play.Here's why.His min-raise on the flop tells us he likely has an over pair, top pair or maybe even two pair, all of which we beat, and all of which continue on unimproved.I don't know that I really like the raise, but I don't think it's terrible, per se.

A sound evaluation, except......the villian never raised on the flop. In fact the villian never took control of the hand until the river. He check-called it down all the way.I really can't put him on a hand like an overpair (talk about the S...L....O......W ..P......L.......A..........Y). The only way he can play AA any slower is to fold pre-flop... because you'd never suspect the folded hand to be the monster... You'd never see it coming!I could have put him on an underpair or maybe a weak ten, nevertheless, since you bet and he raised on the river, I would still not reraise. Your river bet was a value bet, and his raise may have been a value raise for his holdings (before you knew what he had)... nevertheless I must reiterate:The only hands that have any fair probability of calling/raising your river reraise are hands that beat you. Thus your reraise no longer contains any real value. You have show too much strength to have anything less than a set or straight call your reraise (versus most opponents, anyway), and I really can't put him on a set (always difficult to suspect a set).Cheers,Merby

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Actually, after reviewing this, I don't think raising is a terrible play.Here's why.His min-raise on the flop tells us he likely has an over pair, top pair or maybe even two pair, all of which we beat, and all of which continue on unimproved.I don't know that I really like the raise, but I don't think it's terrible, per se.

A sound evaluation, except......the villian never raised on the flop. In fact the villian never took control of the hand until the river. He check-called it down all the way.I really can't put him on a hand like an overpair (talk about the S...L....O......W ..P......L.......A..........Y). The only way he can play AA any slower is to fold pre-flop... because you'd never suspect the folded hand to be the monster... You'd never see it coming!I could have put him on an underpair or maybe a weak ten, nevertheless, since you bet and he raised on the river, I would still not reraise. Your river bet was a value bet, and his raise may have been a value raise for his holdings (before you knew what he had)... nevertheless I must reiterate:The only hands that have any fair probability of calling/raising your river reraise are hands that beat you. Thus your reraise no longer contains any real value. You have show too much strength to have anything less than a set or straight call your reraise (versus most opponents, anyway), and I really can't put him on a set (always difficult to suspect a set).Cheers,Merby

Heh.So, I just realized, I confused this with the other thread, as there's no min-raise on the flop. My mistake. But if indeed there had been a min-raise on the flop, that's what I'd do.I've been posting in this section waaaay too much.Good work, Merby.In closing, I don't raise this, like I said when I still knew what the hell I was talking about.

[Merby 3]

Actually, after reviewing this, I don't think raising is a terrible play.Here's why.His min-raise on the flop tells us he likely has an over pair, top pair or maybe even two pair, all of which we beat, and all of which continue on unimproved.I don't know that I really like the raise, but I don't think it's terrible, per se.

A sound evaluation, except......the villian never raised on the flop. In fact the villian never took control of the hand until the river. He check-called it down all the way.I really can't put him on a hand like an overpair (talk about the S...L....O......W ..P......L.......A..........Y). The only way he can play AA any slower is to fold pre-flop... because you'd never suspect the folded hand to be the monster... You'd never see it coming!I could have put him on an underpair or maybe a weak ten, nevertheless, since you bet and he raised on the river, I would still not reraise. Your river bet was a value bet, and his raise may have been a value raise for his holdings (before you knew what he had)... nevertheless I must reiterate:The only hands that have any fair probability of calling/raising your river reraise are hands that beat you. Thus your reraise no longer contains any real value. You have show too much strength to have anything less than a set or straight call your reraise (versus most opponents, anyway), and I really can't put him on a set (always difficult to suspect a set).Cheers,Merby

Heh.So, I just realized, I confused this with the other thread, as there's no min-raise on the flop. My mistake. But if indeed there had been a min-raise on the flop, that's what I'd do.I've been posting in this section waaaay too much.Good work, Merby.In closing, I don't raise this, like I said when I still knew what the hell I was talking about.

The funny thing is... I nearly made the same mistake. Since we have both read (and contributed to) both posts, I nearly assumed this was the other post, and worded my response accordingly.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Heh.So we both spend waaay too much time in this section.At least I'm not the only one who loses it from time to time. :oops:

[Merby 3]

Heh.So we both spend waaay too much time in this section.At least I'm not the only one who loses it from time to time. :oops:

I've noticed my post count skyrockets every time I am real busy in real life (...uhh procrastination...)Cheers,Merby

[benhoug 0]

Flop: ($1.75) [2s], [9c], [Th] (3 players)BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.5, BB folds, MP1 calls $0.50.

Why are we only betting about 1/4th of the pot here??? I know people love to slowplay their sets, but I'll let you in on a little secret - you're gonna get more paid when you lead w/ your set and find an opponent who wants to dance with you. This flop bet, and the turn bet are just begging for people to call, and although we have a set the 9T on the board make it coordinated, and people are gonna call to make the straight. Bet the pot on the flop, bet the pot on the turn, re-asses on the river, 'cause now we might be beat...

[Scott3705 0]

Um... I reraise this pot more than i call it. Maybe you could have made this decision easier by not pricing in QK, but you're ahead here a lot. Very suprised to not see more people not wanting to reraise here, but you can argue either way.

[petersun 0]

Um... I reraise this pot more than i call it. Maybe you could have made this decision easier by not pricing in QK, but you're ahead here a lot. Very suprised to not see more people not wanting to reraise here, but you can argue either way.

I think the problem here is that the Villian played as if he had incredible strength not realizing that he was a donk to not have pushed his Aces. I think the simple decision to raise or not depends on if you're willing to put all your money in with mid-trips. If you are, then reraise him all in. He's only got something like $35 left. Make him make the decision. If he had trip 10s, just hit trip jacks or either of the straights, then it's his lucky day. I personally would have just called, but I would not have played the flop and turn this way. I would have called but chided myself for playing the flop and turn badly. If I played like I normally do in situations like this, the river reraise by him would have been for all his money which I could have called (I like to bet like I have top pair here, 1.50 on flop and 5 on the turn and 15 on the river).This reminds me of the hand on the WPT where Hoyt Corkins bet with his top pair as if he had something stronger and forced Mohamed Ibrahim to fold his two pair. This guy clearly thought he had the goods.

[offmandh 0]

thats a fishy raise. call.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Why are you babying the bet on the flop and the turn?You lose money playing this way. Bet the pot on the flop and the pot on the turn.