Bubba83 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is CO with 7:heart:, 7:diamond:. UTG calls, 4 foldsFairly loosish 2/4 PartyPoker game, 9 handed. Do you raise or call here? Why? Link to post Share on other sites
wrto4556 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 i like raising here to isolate the limper. Calling allows the blinds in cheap and our hand is too vulnerable. Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Buying the button is important, and guaranteeing a shorthanded pot is important. If you have good/any control over the limper, a raise here is ultra-profitable. At this point, you're not really playing the hand for set value, or to see a showdown all that often. Limping here makes the hand almost impossible to play after the flop, and -unless the players in the pot are terribly bad- likely unprofitable.Try to get it heads up in position, and take the pot on the flop.Cheers,Ice Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 What if the guy in the CO limps in every hand, and calls 2 cold PF 70% of the time? Do we still want to raise? Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 What if the guy in the CO limps in every hand, and calls 2 cold PF 70% of the time? Do we still want to raise?I thought we were the cutoff. Link to post Share on other sites
Canada 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 What if the guy in the CO limps in every hand, and calls 2 cold PF 70% of the time? Do we still want to raise?I thought we were the cutoff.He's probably got bigger concerns than iso raises then... Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 What if the guy in the CO limps in every hand, and calls 2 cold PF 70% of the time? Do we still want to raise?I thought we were the cutoff.He's probably got bigger concerns than iso raises then...Man, it totally blows when you're not even sure where the button is."Well, I picked up As9s, and I'm somewhere w/in 3 seats of the button, so I raise..."Uh, were you under the gun?"Well... yes."Ice Link to post Share on other sites
Canada 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 What if the guy in the CO limps in every hand, and calls 2 cold PF 70% of the time? Do we still want to raise?I thought we were the cutoff.He's probably got bigger concerns than iso raises then...Man, it totally blows when you're not even sure where the button is."Well, I picked up As9s, and I'm somewhere w/in 3 seats of the button, so I raise..."Uh, were you under the gun?"Well... yes."Ice Bubba - in all seriousness, I assume you are talking about the button.Given that read of him I would call and play a mid pair as a drawing hand Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 What if the guy in the CO limps in every hand, and calls 2 cold PF 70% of the time? Do we still want to raise?Depends on the blinds and the aggressiveness of UTG.Usually it's still a raise. Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Raiseif tight blinds will fold enough.Buy that buttonGet Fold equity on flopCallif UTG limp in could be big hand, tight/passive palyerif Blinds/Button call two cold liberally, and always call one.Generally, I'm raising these more lately, when folded to me/**** read replies ****I must've gotten some sleeep lat night!. Link to post Share on other sites
KDawgCometh 2 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 there really isn't much discussion over this, its an easy raise, and by easy, I mean obscenely easy. Make the raise, get it HU, buy the button, take the initiative in the pot Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 there really isn't much discussion over this, its an easy raise, and by easy, I mean obscenely easy. Make the raise, get it HU, buy the button, take the initiative in the potjust as easy with a calling station big blind and a button who will cold-call a raise 70% of the time? Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 there really isn't much discussion over this, its an easy raise, and by easy, I mean obscenely easy. Make the raise, get it HU, buy the button, take the initiative in the potjust as easy with a calling station big blind and a button who will cold-call a raise 70% of the time?First off, almost nobody cold-calls raises THAT often.Secondly, even if he did, it's still worth it. Our hand has decent value, and when we DO happen to get it HU/3-handed, or Fequity is good, and we have position.If you are really that concerned with the pot being 4 handed, just go ahead and dump it. I really believe that's significantly better than callingIce Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 there really isn't much discussion over this, its an easy raise, and by easy, I mean obscenely easy. Make the raise, get it HU, buy the button, take the initiative in the potjust as easy with a calling station big blind and a button who will cold-call a raise 70% of the time?First off, almost nobody cold-calls raises THAT often.Secondly, even if he did, it's still worth it. Our hand has decent value, and when we DO happen to get it HU/3-handed, or Fequity is good, and we have position.If you are really that concerned with the pot being 4 handed, just go ahead and dump it. I really believe that's significantly better than callingIcetrue enough on the cold-calling, though if you were in MP3 for instance, you might have a button and cut-off who combined to call 50-60% of the time.but against passive players i want to stress that i think calling is better htan folding. your hand has more than only set value.i'm really playing devil's advocate here, since i think even 4-way, raising>calling>folding, but for beginning players, it might be difficult to play this hand 4-way after raising pre-flop without being last to act.to summarize, i think most of us would agree that with one limper you should be raising. if the pot ends up 4-way anyways, you might have to slow down, but it will usually be the correct equity play to raise with it, and your raise also improves post-flop playability.daniel Link to post Share on other sites
CoranMoran 0 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 At this point, you're not really playing the hand for set value, or to see a showdown all that often. Â I believe that this is a situation in which you are playing the people and not your cards.If you think you can buy the button, get the blinds to fold, and isolate UTG, then raising is very valuable.At that point, you're not really thinking about your hand any more.After you miss your set, you are simply trying to outplay UTG.And your preflop raise was the first step in doing this.--cnm Link to post Share on other sites
KDawgCometh 2 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 At this point, you're not really playing the hand for set value, or to see a showdown all that often. Â I believe that this is a situation in which you are playing the people and not your cards.If you think you can buy the button, get the blinds to fold, and isolate UTG, then raising is very valuable.At that point, you're not really thinking about your hand any more.After you miss your set, you are simply trying to outplay UTG.And your preflop raise was the first step in doing this.--cnmits not outplaying when your hand is most likely best, its value raising Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 At this point, you're not really playing the hand for set value, or to see a showdown all that often. Â I believe that this is a situation in which you are playing the people and not your cards.If you think you can buy the button, get the blinds to fold, and isolate UTG, then raising is very valuable.At that point, you're not really thinking about your hand any more.After you miss your set, you are simply trying to outplay UTG.And your preflop raise was the first step in doing this.--cnmWhat KDawg said.But, yes, the raise is a necessary component of taking the pot when our opponents totally whiff an ugly flop.Ice Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcCatcher 0 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 I will generally raise any 1 limper if I am entering the pot in mid to late position especially w/ a middle pair. People just scream "please take mymoney" when they limp 1st in in mp or lp. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted December 10, 2005 Author Share Posted December 10, 2005 lol, yeah i guess i meant the button. For some reason I thought I was 1 right of CO in this hand. What do you call 1 right of CO 9 handed anyway? Does it go UTG, UTG+1, UTG+2, MP1, MP2, CO?Or UTG, UTG+1, MP1, MP2, MP3, CO?I've generally been calling here in these situations, but I'm going to start raising now and see what happens. I agree with a lot of the opinions that we should raise even if Button is that loose, and yes, he was cold-calling 2 PF 70% of the time. He had money though because he played alright post flop and kept catching draws. Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcCatcher 0 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 lol, yeah i guess i meant the button. For some reason I thought I was 1 right of CO in this hand. What do you call 1 right of CO 9 handed anyway? Does it go UTG, UTG+1, UTG+2, MP1, MP2, CO?Or UTG, UTG+1, MP1, MP2, MP3, CO?I've generally been calling here in these situations, but I'm going to start raising now and see what happens. I agree with a lot of the opinions that we should raise even if Button is that loose, and yes, he was cold-calling 2 PF 70% of the time. He had money though because he played alright post flop and kept catching draws.The HighJack is one in front of the button, and if he limps in the CO you shouldnt think twice about raising if you are going to play, and thank your lucky starts that you are in a game where players open limp in the CO and coldcall 70% of pfr. Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 The HighJack is one in front of the buttonWhat? I thought the Hijack seat was MP3/the seat TWO to the right of the button.I'm pretty sure it goes... HiJack, Cutoff, ButtonIce Link to post Share on other sites
WonderfulSplash 0 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 The HighJack is one in front of the buttonWhat? I thought the Hijack seat was MP3/the seat TWO to the right of the button.I'm pretty sure it goes... HiJack, Cutoff, ButtonIceIt's HiJack, Cutoff, Button. Unless there was some memo I missed that changed the rules... Link to post Share on other sites
Egarim 0 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 It's not spelled HighJack. It's just hijack right? Link to post Share on other sites
TheIceman05 0 Posted December 10, 2005 Share Posted December 10, 2005 It's not spelled HighJack. It's just hijack right?It's spelled:H-I-FuckOffNobodyCares-J-A-C-K:)Ice Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcCatcher 0 Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 The HighJack is one in front of the buttonWhat? I thought the Hijack seat was MP3/the seat TWO to the right of the button.I'm pretty sure it goes... HiJack, Cutoff, ButtonIceIt's HiJack, Cutoff, Button. Unless there was some memo I missed that changed the rules...I know I misread his question. I thought he knew what CO was and was asking what the spot next to the CO was Link to post Share on other sites
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