rookie of the year

[mrdannyg 274]

Well, since I actually have a vote, I'm glad you enlightened me.....

hacks who just like to argue

i think he made that point seriously though, i can't imagine giving it to anyone but lundqvist right now. ovechkin>crosby, but surely lundqvist has had a bigger impact on his team even than ovechkin. of course its hard to measure goalie vs forward, and both players could make decent arguments for MVP with their impacts.what would decide it in my book is that lundqvist had taken a team that would be struggling with the Leafs :? , Habs and everyone else for that last playoff spot, and made them on of the better teams in the league, while washington is still miles away. since rangers without lundqvist are still better than washington without ovechkin though, i can't make any kind of convincing argument.just wondering what criteria others (aka gruven) might use to decide the impact of a goalie vs. a forward, like lundqvist and ovechkin, where both their stats, and impact on their team, are excellent.

[gruven 530]

The best parts of these debates are that there really isn't any right or wrong, and it's a lot of fun when there are two or three or four (lets not forget Phaneuf) players who all deserve consideration. In fact, this debate gets even better when you consider that you have a goalie, a defenseman, and two forwards- on of whom plays by himself every night, which just HAPPENS to suit his style, and the other who has at least a little talent around him but a more rounded game, which suits HIS style... in a way, it's like trying to compare apples and oranges. For me, the big decision between Crosby and Ovechkin, and I thought of it this way: if you swapped the two players, how would their impact change with a different supporting cast? I have to believe that Crosby with his style of play, would just get worn out in time, while Ovechkin would probably do a slight bit better with better wingers. Then you throw in Lundqvist and Phaneuf: you cant deny that, with the Rangers wide open style, they would not be anywhere near as successful without a talent behind him who is going to get hung out to dry on occasion. Lundqvist really opened my eyes with that shootout (the one with the infamous Malik goal). He was brilliant. And Phaneuf? For a rookie DEFENSEMAN to play as well on BOTH sides of the puck (I know, a puck is round, it doesn't have two sides ), is phenomenol. If I had to take one of them to build a team around, it might be Phaneuf. So, arguments on all sides are good. As for the voting, I think in a way it's a little unfair, because this year in particular, no one gets to see all the teams and all the players. There is sometimes some lobbying for a particular player, and on occasion, an agent has been known to put together a video of highlights to suggest why his player should be selected for an award. Not to mention the fact that..... deep breath.... MOST hockey writers have never been on skates, and while they know the stats and records and history and trivia, they don't REALLY know the game itself..... truthfully, the press box at the Air Canada Centre often looks like a collection of high school equipment managers and towel boys... so I dont know how qualified we writers really are (In my defense, I at least played through Junior, until they realized I should probably be a towel boy or equipment manager :? ). I dont know if that answers your request.... I kinda lost track.... damn concussions are catching up with me.....

[HrdChrgr 0]

You know, I have to agree fully that the comparison is a bit apple/orange, but it always will be. Every player brings their own style to the table and although I agree with gruven on almost every point, my only point of contention would be about Crosby being more well-rounded. Ovechkin has gone a long way to proving he is a complete package: just check his hits vs PIM ratio. They both make a strong case for having a physical game for a forward, but Ovechkin is showing his checks aren't getting him put in the box for letting out aggressions.Back to the apple/orange point of view, it's alot like the NBA season a few years back with the Carmelo/LeBron debate. At first the general perception was that Melo was the better baller, but James was the better overall athlete. Melo had just won a NCAA championship, but James was a physical presence that had seasoned vets stepping up their games. Comparitively Ovechkin right now looks like he's got the heart and the athletic ability to go out and hammer the net with brute force (Ovechkin has 246 SOG vs Crosbys 182), while Crosby is showing that he's got the skill sets and a tool box full of tricks to make the plays come together and produce the goals. LeBron also had the media behind him, much like Crosby is the golden child right now. But as history likes to repeat itself, there was the inevitable shadow in the corner that would emerge to prove that while the spotlight follows the hype, the contenders like Dwanye Wade and Lundqvist are going out there day in and day out letting the numbers speak for themselves. Although I think Ovechkin is more deserving than Crosby, I believe 87 will take home RoY - even though Lundqvist may be the most deserving.

[HtotheNootch 0]

Yes, I'm a Rangers fan. However, I think that Lundqvist is starting to earn serious consideration.I also offer what I think is a humorous take on Lundqvist...http://bb.hockeybird.com/viewtopic.php?t=17577

[mrdannyg 274]

Yes, I'm a Rangers fan.  However, I think that Lundqvist is starting to earn serious consideration.I also offer what I think is a humorous take on Lundqvist...http://bb.hockeybird.com/viewtopic.php?t=17577

that is f'ing hilarious, thank you.personal favourites:"If at first you don't succeed, you're not Henrik Lundqvist""Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Henrik Lundqvist. He only has two needs: saving pucks and finding pucks to save"also - you have 4500 posts on that site? holy crap.and yeah gruven, that's mostly what i'm looking for, in a rambling guy of way. thanks for the thought.

[HtotheNootch 0]

also - you have 4500 posts on that site?  holy crap.

That's not that many. I've been there a long time. You have over 2k here since March.

[mrdannyg 274]

also - you have 4500 posts on that site? holy crap.

That's not that many. I've been there a long time. You have over 2k here since March.

my point was that there is not really much to discuss on that site except hockey. than i realized by the same token there is not much to discuss here except poker.hockey > poker.i stand by my "holy crap" but keep in mind i think the same thing about my post count, so i am aware of the hypocrisy.

[HtotheNootch 0]

Lundqvist is just frightening sometimes.

[WestcoastCanuck 0]

This is probably the best rookie class ever. Svatos is leading the Avalanche in goals and he hasn't been mentioned in this thread.I would lean towards Ovechkin, but Crosby certainly wouldn't be a bad choice.Lundqvist and Phaneuf obviously deserve attention. These five guys could have easily won the calder in different seasons (like the 2003-2004 season).

[aadams_22 3]

Absolutely no question it is Alexander Ovechkin.

[dEv~ 19]

Absolutely no question it is Alexander Ovechkin.

He's the real deal for sure but I don't think anyone can truly say he should get 100% of the votes.

[Azreous 0]

This is probably the best rookie class ever. Svatos is leading the Avalanche in goals and he hasn't been mentioned in this thread.

I had gotten all the way to this post and was about to reply the same...and then came across this. Ah well.Marek Svatos should at least get a few votes, but it'll probably go Ovechkin-Crosby-Lundqvist, even though personally I'd have Lundqvist out in front right now. Something tells me the Ovechkin goal against the Coyotes is going to get replayed over and over again come voting time.

[ajs510 122]

I think Lundqvist will/should be getting more MVP consideration than Calder consideration. He's almost single handedly made that franchise what it is, without his contributions they'd be in the gutter like the last 5 years. I can't see him getting a serious bid at the Calder over Ovechkin/Crosby though, the league really needs one of them to take that trophy and I would imagine the writers know it. Lundqvist taking the MVP, Calder and Vezina would be quite a trifecta though...

[digitalmonkey 929]

I think Lundqvist will/should be getting more MVP consideration than Calder consideration. He's almost single handedly made that franchise what it is, without his contributions they'd be in the gutter like the last 5 years. I can't see him getting a serious bid at the Calder over Ovechkin/Crosby though, the league really needs one of them to take that trophy and I would imagine the writers know it. Lundqvist taking the MVP, Calder and Vezina would be quite a trifecta though...

I think Jagr has had a big say in the turn around for the Rangers. I would give Jagr more MVP votes than Lundqvist.

[Pilla 0]

This conversation should start and end at Lundquist But because of the star rule Crosby will win the Calder. What i would like to see is the hat trick(Calder,Vezina,Hart)

[digitalmonkey 929]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?fid=10453&hubname=

[ajs510 122]

Miller shouldn't be on that list, he's not technically a rook.

[Jkurtz27 0]

While Miller did play what two-three games a couple years ago he is still considered a rookie and I think he should be given a good look for rookie of the year. I will admit that I am biased being a die-hard sabres fan (and at the begining of the year hoped Vanek would should up Crosby didn't happen but Vanek is having an excellent season). The Reason Miller should get a look is why people were making a pull for Lundqvist, but Miller is doing it without the re-emergance of Jagr, in a harder division. Miller might not lead the league or rookies for the matter in GAA or Save percentage but he is 6th in the league for both (second among rookies) and his sabres are winning. He has almost a 10% better win percentage than Lundqvist. Biron was a good goaltender and playing with basically the same team could not get them into the playoffs let alone what 2 points out of second.

[ajs510 122]

I was doing some research to show you why Miller isn't eligible, but it turns out that he is...From Wikipedia/NHL.com:Calder Trophy. The current eligibility criteria is that the player must not have played more than 25 games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in the NHL, as well as being under the age of 26 on September 15 of the season in which he is eligible.Ryan Miller's career stats:15 games played in 2002-20033 games played in 2003-2004Born on Jul 17, 1980 which would have made him 25 at the cutoff. Interesting, I don't think he can beat out Ovechkin/Crosby, but he should give Lundqvist a run for his money...

[dEv~ 19]

I think the Pens are gonna have to put up some W's down the stretch with Crosby being a big player in those games. Right now I really think it's Ovechkin to lose...he's just beastly.

[XXEddie 0]

CrosbyandSvatos

poor Svatos, more shoulder problems put him out for the yeari love the Avs, but they are screwd. They traded Abby for a Theodore, whos hurt and cant play till playoffs due to salary cap issues. Then Svatos goes down, too bad for the avs

[runthemover 39]

sorry svatos is good but you're kidding yourself if you think he's had a better rookie season than ovechkin. but since he's injured he's out of that picture. it's between ovechkin, lundquist, Phaneuf (defenceman from calgary).my vote would go to phaneuf p.s. i see crosby in the same way as svatos, he's good but ovechkin is a few steps better than him. that being said, crosby will probably be better 4 years from now

[Zach6668 513]

Crosby is better than Ovechkin at the game of HOCKEY.Ovechkin is better than Crosby at scoring goals, and has higher "wow" factor.Crosby plays a complete game. There are reasons he has less goals than Ovechkin, and it's not because he can't score. He passes. He also plays defensively, and he can read the ice like no one since Gretzky and Lemieux.Crosby is amazing. Everybody in the hockey world focuses on goals WAY too much in this Calder race, not to mention the fact that Crosby is only 4 or 5 points behind Oveckin, with 20 games to go, it wouldn't be hard to catch him.- Zach

[Vertigo 0]

Crosby is better than Ovechkin at the game of HOCKEY.Ovechkin is better than Crosby at scoring goals, and has higher "wow" factor.Crosby plays a complete game. There are reasons he has less goals than Ovechkin, and it's not because he can't score. He passes. He also plays defensively, and he can read the ice like no one since Gretzky and Lemieux.Crosby is amazing. Everybody in the hockey world focuses on goals WAY too much in this Calder race, not to mention the fact that Crosby is only 4 or 5 points behind Oveckin, with 20 games to go, it wouldn't be hard to catch him.- Zach

Did you also realize that Ovechkin hardly has any decent players to play with compared to Crosby (although losing Recchi sucks). Not to mention, he has plenty of assists himself. And he can actually hit, and doesn't constantly take stupid penalties.

[Zach6668 513]

Did you also realize that Ovechkin hardly has any decent players to play with compared to Crosby (although losing Recchi sucks). Not to mention, he has plenty of assists himself. And he can actually hit, and doesn't constantly take stupid penalties.

Ugh... look at the other Ovechkin ROY thread... my points are outlined in that one.- Zach