ridiculing poor play, and why i do it

[KDawgCometh 2]

Now, much has been said of the horrible fish out there winning miracle pots. And yes, I know that they are the exact people you want playing at your table, cuz you will make much more money off them then you lose.Now, having said this, do I berate horrible horrible plays and players when they suckout on me?Yes I do.And this is why...First off...I'm censored. When I go all in with the nut straight, someone calls with one pair and no draw, and goes runner runner flush for a 200 dollar pot, I'm flipping out. Why do I berate this player? Because I want to punch out someone, but I can't, so I yell (through my keyboard). Why do I do this? Cuz it keeps me from tilting. I don't tilt. Never have, never will. I am extremely good at keeping my composure after a disgusting beat (probably cuz i was a goalie, you need a short memory), but letting off some steam definetly helps keep the tilting from happening.2ndly I do it to make it appear to the table that I'm tilting. I want them to think i'm playing like a madman so that they'll reraise me when I get my aa kk qq or ak, which is perfect.Now, some may frown upon this behavior and think that by berating players you are going to improve them. I disagree with this. If these people are so bad to give me the beats i'm talking about, they clearly aren't going to get better because i'm freaking out on them. They are just going to giggle and continue to play that way to censored me off even more (which won't work, I'm already censored, yet not tilting)Call me a jackass, call me a prick, call me whatever you want...I know I do this, and will do it in the future. You'll never find me pulling a Matasow though, thats just ridiculous.

you are a weak minded person, thats all I have or want to say

[MasterLJ 0]

Blah....Some people listen to iPods, some people use "magic" fossil card protectors, some people get drunk, some people wear their lucky shirt. People do these things to improve their game, so you are going to critisize someone for doing what they have to do to make their game better?It may not be nice etiquette, but who cares? It's helping his game. He's not going to make any friends (although he may get TV time! =P ), but last I checked, people don't play online to make friends, they play to make money.To each his own.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Vidgames...wanting to punch someone out and not tilting is not a contradiction, it can be achieved. Do I want to punch someone out? Yes I do. Do I let it affect my play? No I don't. You can believe whatever you wish, but it doesn't.As for the guy saying he'll report me at pokerstars...well I've been playing there since June and I've not once lost my chat nor will I ever, I have never gone over the line in regards to what is acceptable or not. I never swear at anyone or anything like that, just make it very well known of what I think of their play...lol.As for anyone saying i'm an A******, well you've never played with me or witnessed how I act, so you really have no way of knowing what I talk about.And yes, Oshawa isn't exactly Beverly Hills.I've never shyed away from speaking the truth, and I won't in the future.

[Smasharoo 0]

You're just upset that you didn't cap it with 89o.

[jack24bauer24 0]

Lol....this is so true.

[NYIsles 0]

Think of controlling your urge to respond to an exceptionally stupid play as part of your own personal growth as a poker player. Controlling your emotions is such a big part of the game - if you have the ability to accept bad beats without responding emotionally, it's a victory in and of itself. Sort of like resisting the urge to display your cards when you've just been beat while holding the second nut hand, either out of frustration, or because you don't want everyone at the table to think you were an idiot for staying in through the river. A lot of players do this... but not giving the free information away is obviously better for you as a player.Forget about the shortcomings of other players (other than in determining how to best exploit them)... focus on eliminating your own.

[Awful 0]

If you can't recognize why your opponent's poor play is good for you, and respond to it in a stable, classy manner, why do you play then? You don't play to win money because the more sick beats you're taking, the more money you're really making, you don't play for fun because you shouldn't do anything that makes you want to break your monitor. If you play for your own ego, maybe, this makes sense, but playing for ego is something that will forever limit one's earning potential and skew how one perceives and plays the game.Berating players doesn't by itself improve them. It does, however, take those players who do know better and give them reason to apply that knowledge. There are also many, many other tables at your site for the fun-motivated fish to play at; they can just pack it up, and you don't want that. You'll get surprising raises and better, smarter play when someone decides the best way to have fun is to beat you, and you'll cost yourself by chasing out the weak players.As caro says in regards to bad opponents: Don't criticize their weak play, don't congratulate them on strong plays, and don't discuss strategy in their presence.

[Markmadness 0]

There has been a time or two where i said i can't believe it. But i leave it at that. The money is gone at this point, nothing you can say or do to get it back.

[Smasharoo 0]

I occasionally say "Amazing" like today when I had 55, flopped T5T and someone with TK capped every street and hit his K on the river.More often I just say "lol" when someone with 55 hit's a 5 on the river to beat my top two pair or whatnot.I don't really get frustrated by bad beats anymore, what I get frustrated by is bad beats where the villian is way behind and capping with crap on the flop and the turn and then hitting on the river and it's heads up.That's the annoying part. Being way ahead multiway and having one of three people make a better hand on the river isn't annoying to me at all anymore.

[Crocolyle 0]

This brings to mind a live game that I was playing in last week. It was no limit and this one gentleman, who was actually extremely nice, kept rivering everyone. This was a $100 max buy in table and he had bought in for a total of $300. He then worked it all the way up to about $1200, almost completely from bad beats. Chasing a gutshot, but catching a better pair on the river, weird stuff like that. I played directly to his left but I couldn't seem to beat him in a pot for hours. I was stuck for $300 at one point and just kept shaking my head and saying "nice hand", or "good call". I welcomed all these horrible calls because I knew if he was winning he would keep playing; he was having fun. Finally I was able to take advantage of his horrendous play on about four different hands. I ended the night $600 in the positive! :-) ....he ended up losing the entire $1200 too. Bottom line: don't berate the ATM's. If we were jerks to the guy he might have gotten fed up and left when he had over $1K and that would've been a complete tradgedy. Eventually the odds will work in your favor and you can take advantage like I did. I've found that the nicer I am the more action I get, because people like playing with me and they don't get mad when I beat them in a pot. Kill them with kindness and they'll stick around and it will pay off in big ways for you too.

[epistemic 0]

Croc,Thanks for such a good example from your own play.My post from earlier, while more general, is in total agreement. To hell with the bad beat police.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I can't remember where I read it (cardplayer.com?), but I really like to use "Don't tap on the aquarium" when someone's berating a bad player.That said, poker advice is an interesting thing. If everyone makes so much money off others being poor players, why offer any advice at all? Why write books? Why have these forums? Wouldn't we rather people not improve?

[Awful 0]

You can only play 9 idiots at a time. You can sell a book to thousands at a time.

[360f1 0]

First of all, if you ever tried to do that in a live game, you'd be thrown out on your butt. And you shouldn't do it online either.Second, I got into a hand once in the $3000 event at the 5 diamond at Bellagio. I had AA. Guy went all-in in front of me with JJ, floped a J and I lost. I was pissed. Ron Rose happened to be there. He said "look at it this way. the guy tried very hard to give you his chips. But he failed."Ever since, I do look at it that way. You will win most of the hands you're supposed to (odds in your favor). Be happy that bad players give you the opportunity.Finally, when you get into an all in situation, and you're the one who's behind, and you get lucky, draw out, and win the hand, do you berate yourself for playing bad? I think not.Bottom line, grow up.

[Hutch 0]

Jack24bauer24To me you dont seemliek an ******* at all, but thats because I do the same thing . As long as you realize that verbally bashing someone is going to change your table image and get you more action via the other smart players thinking you're on tilt and the guy you just slammed trying to "prove" he is a good player that doesnt always luck out. In short, you're going to get more action in the upcoming few hands, so it would be good to slip into a little more conservative gear and wait for the great starting hands before you goto war. I have an interesting story tho that goes the other way, with me "sucking out" to win quite a large pot. I had been playing a cash game with one other player that a sort of respected (he was by no means and elite tier player, but at least his plays mad sence) and a table full of bottom sucking fish. They loved going all-in, pretty much every handpre-flop or on the flop. I had been getting pissed off and laying down hands i really wanted to play, in the Q-10 range, because i didnt want to take these kinda hands all in. When i looked down at K-10 suited (spades) in the small blind, and there had only been amoderate raise in front of me, I was more than thrilled just to call the raise with this hand. The newjack supertight fish to my left smiled then quickly put back on a straight face. I said, "Looks liek hes goona raise with his Ace blank, you're so predictable". To this he just checked, which was the point of my steaming. So I got to see a flop for the right price. Flop comes down Jc, Qd, Kh. First to act, I bet a third of my stack, the size of the pot, on my high pair with open ended straight draw. The guy to my left, smiles again and pushes his chips all-in. The other player in the hand quickly folds and I am left with a decisionto make. I know in my soul that he has the ace but i couldnt figure out his other card. Was it as good as AA, AK, or A10, the hands that are currently have me killed, or did he have A-Q, A-J, or A nothing, and was just making a monster raise to aviod showing the table that I read him like a book. I deliberated for a bit, and decided to call. To my dismay, he held A-10, broadway. My heart sank. To make things worse, his 2 friend at the table had laid down K-3, and A-2, so my full house drawing odds were down as well as my straight outs to split. I was praying full a split more than anything, cause ifthere is one thing in life I hate, its losing my money to a fish, and this time, I had didnt have the excuse, "You hit running cards to beat me. You Fcking suck balls!!!", because he did make the right play (this time). Ok, turn card comes off is the last K in the deck, giving me 2 cards to draw for the full house, and one card to draw for the A high split straight. I ask everyone at the table if they had folded a 10. Sure enough, somebody had laid down 4-10, leaving my remaining winning outs at one!!! So I had to hit the last card in the deck, a 10, to win the hand, or the last ace in the deck to tie. Seeing as had alreadyb hit the last king in the deck, I thought there was no possible way I could runner runner the only 2 cards in the deck that could give me a win. Sure enough, the river is the 10d!!!!!!!!!! I jumped out of my chair. the odds were 2500-1 that i would win and I did it. It was my turn to be the lucky fish and in all honesty, it felt pretty good. The player I beat out was descimated, his face was pale and he looked like he was going to throw up, but hey thats poker. While I pride myself on never getting into these situations, it couldn't have turned out any betterfor me, and from that point, I ran the table as planned, buying pots and trapping noobs with style and grace. I had dodges a monster bullet, but I lived to tell about it.

[Hutch 0]

Jack24bauer24To me you dont seemliek an ******* at all, but thats because I do the same thing . As long as you realize that verbally bashing someone is going to change your table image and get you more action via the other smart players thinking you're on tilt and the guy you just slammed trying to "prove" he is a good player that doesnt always luck out. In short, you're going to get more action in the upcoming few hands, so it would be good to slip into a little more conservative gear and wait for the great starting hands before you goto war. I have an interesting story tho that goes the other way, with me "sucking out" to win quite a large pot. I had been playing a cash game with one other player that a sort of respected (he was by no means and elite tier player, but at least his plays mad sence) and a table full of bottom sucking fish. They loved going all-in, pretty much every handpre-flop or on the flop. I had been getting pissed off and laying down hands i really wanted to play, in the Q-10 range, because i didnt want to take these kinda hands all in. When i looked down at K-10 suited (spades) in the small blind, and there had only been amoderate raise in front of me, I was more than thrilled just to call the raise with this hand. The newjack supertight fish to my left smiled then quickly put back on a straight face. I said, "Looks liek hes goona raise with his Ace blank, you're so predictable". To this he just checked, which was the point of my steaming. So I got to see a flop for the right price. Flop comes down Jc, Qd, Kh. First to act, I bet a third of my stack, the size of the pot, on my high pair with open ended straight draw. The guy to my left, smiles again and pushes his chips all-in. The other player in the hand quickly folds and I am left with a decisionto make. I know in my soul that he has the ace but i couldnt figure out his other card. Was it as good as AA, AK, or A10, the hands that are currently have me killed, or did he have A-Q, A-J, or A nothing, and was just making a monster raise to aviod showing the table that I read him like a book. I deliberated for a bit, and decided to call. To my dismay, he held A-10, broadway. My heart sank. To make things worse, his 2 friend at the table had laid down K-3, and A-2, so my full house drawing odds were down as well as my straight outs to split. I was praying full a split more than anything, cause ifthere is one thing in life I hate, its losing my money to a fish, and this time, I had didnt have the excuse, "You hit running cards to beat me. You Fcking suck balls!!!", because he did make the right play (this time). Ok, turn card comes off is the last K in the deck, giving me 2 cards to draw for the full house, and one card to draw for the A high split straight. I ask everyone at the table if they had folded a 10. Sure enough, somebody had laid down 4-10, leaving my remaining winning outs at one!!! So I had to hit the last card in the deck, a 10, to win the hand, or the last ace in the deck to tie. Seeing as had alreadyb hit the last king in the deck, I thought there was no possible way I could runner runner the only 2 cards in the deck that could give me a win. Sure enough, the river is the 10d!!!!!!!!!! I jumped out of my chair. the odds were 2500-1 that i would win and I did it. It was my turn to be the lucky fish and in all honesty, it felt pretty good. The player I beat out was descimated, his face was pale and he looked like he was going to throw up, but hey thats poker. While I pride myself on never getting into these situations, it couldn't have turned out any betterfor me, and from that point, I ran the table as planned, buying pots and trapping noobs with style and grace. I had dodges a monster bullet, but I lived to tell about it.

[MrConceit 0]

I occasionally say "Amazing" like today when I had 55, flopped T5T and someone with TK capped every street and hit his K on the river.More often I just say "lol" when someone with 55 hit's a 5 on the river to beat my top two pair or whatnot.I don't really get frustrated by bad beats anymore, what I get frustrated by is bad beats where the villian is way behind and capping with crap on the flop and the turn and then hitting on the river and it's heads up.That's the annoying part. Being way ahead multiway and having one of three people make a better hand on the river isn't annoying to me at all anymore.

I totally and utterly agree with the bolded stuff. Bad beats by calling stations don't even phase me at all anymore (unless I have like literally 7 in 7 mins, and even then it's not THAT bad). What pisses the HELL out of me are people who checkraise, raise, or cap improbable draws and then hit.Flop was 568, I have 66, this guy leads out (with what turns out to be A9o). I'm FINE with him leading out, semi-bluff sure. I raise, he calls. Turn is a K, he checks, I bet, he checkraises me, I 3bet him, he calls. River is a 7. Joy. He bets I flat call and I lose to his 1 card straight.Even this I shouldn't complain because he's just trying to push me off the hand he THOUGHT I had, but still it grates a bit. But I don't yell and scream and call him horrible.

[MrConceit 0]

*snip*I was praying full a split more than anything, cause ifthere is one thing in life I hate, its losing my money to a fish, and this time, I had didnt have the excuse, "You hit running cards to beat me. You Fcking suck balls!!!", because he did make the right play (this time). Ok, turn card comes off is the last K in the deck, giving me 2 cards to draw for the full house, and one card to draw for the A high split straight. I ask everyone at the table if they had folded a 10. Sure enough, somebody had laid down 4-10, leaving my remaining winning outs at one!!! So I had to hit the last card in the deck, a 10, to win the hand, or the last ace in the deck to tie. Seeing as had alreadyb hit the last king in the deck, I thought there was no possible way I could runner runner the only 2 cards in the deck that could give me a win. Sure enough, the river is the 10d!!!!!!!!!! I jumped out of my chair. the odds were 2500-1 that i would win and I did it. It was my turn to be the lucky fish and in all honesty, it felt pretty good. The player I beat out was descimated, his face was pale and he looked like he was going to throw up, but hey thats poker. While I pride myself on never getting into these situations, it couldn't have turned out any betterfor me, and from that point, I ran the table as planned, buying pots and trapping noobs with style and grace. I had dodges a monster bullet, but I lived to tell about it.

This is a funny story. I especially like your "one thing in life I hate, its losing money to a fish" statement. But you had more outs than you thought, especially after the turn. Any Q or J also gave you a boat.We've all given beats of course, most often when you thought your kinda good hand was best, but the other guy had a great hand and you drew out. So when you get toasted by the fish do you say your "hey thats poker" comment? Some people still do, but most don't, not then.

[JohnnyFourthSt 0]

First off...I'm censored. When I go all in with the nut straight, someone calls with one pair and no draw, and goes runner runner flush for a 200 dollar pot, I'm flipping out. Why do I berate this player? Because I want to punch out someone, but I can't, so I yell (through my keyboard). Why do I do this? Cuz it keeps me from tilting. I don't tilt. Never have, never will. I am extremely good at keeping my composure after a disgusting beat (probably cuz i was a goalie, you need a short memory), but letting off some steam definetly helps keep the tilting from happening.

OK, let me get this straight. You berate the bad players because you want to punch someone out, but you can't. And that keeps you from tilting. And you don't tilt because you have such good compose after a bad beat. Yeah, THAT sounds about right. LMAO!Dude, see a shrink. And in the meantime, quite scaring the fish away and advising them on how to play.

[justblaze 0]

Now, much has been said of the horrible fish out there winning miracle pots. And yes, I know that they are the exact people you want playing at your table, cuz you will make much more money off them then you lose.Now, having said this, do I berate horrible horrible plays and players when they suckout on me?Yes I do.And this is why...First off...I'm censored. When I go all in with the nut straight, someone calls with one pair and no draw, and goes runner runner flush for a 200 dollar pot, I'm flipping out. Why do I berate this player? Because I want to punch out someone, but I can't, so I yell (through my keyboard). Why do I do this? Cuz it keeps me from tilting. I don't tilt. Never have, never will. I am extremely good at keeping my composure after a disgusting beat (probably cuz i was a goalie, you need a short memory), but letting off some steam definetly helps keep the tilting from happening.2ndly I do it to make it appear to the table that I'm tilting. I want them to think i'm playing like a madman so that they'll reraise me when I get my aa kk qq or ak, which is perfect.Now, some may frown upon this behavior and think that by berating players you are going to improve them. I disagree with this. If these people are so bad to give me the beats i'm talking about, they clearly aren't going to get better because i'm freaking out on them. They are just going to giggle and continue to play that way to censored me off even more (which won't work, I'm already censored, yet not tilting)Call me a jackass, call me a prick, call me whatever you want...I know I do this, and will do it in the future.  You'll never find me pulling a Matasow though, thats just ridiculous.

this is the stupidest logic ever. EVER. what you are saying is "im good at keeping my composure so instead of going on tilt i just explain to the little fishy how stupid what he just did was. Now the whole table will think im on tilt because i yelled at a guy and i stand to make a killing". Meanwhile, mr. moron who just clobbered you with 46o isnt gonna wanna show down those cards for a while for fear of being berated again and its gonna be a lot harder to get your money back.

[Frills 0]

I hate jackasses who berate people at the table.Who the hell tells them the leaks in their game.I'd rather take the beat, and the next 10 hands the same situation come up, profit from it. By telling the person what they did wrong, you then possibly decrease the chance of it happing again greatly, thus screwing everything up.Nice work

[KidKanuck 0]

if you act in a way online that you wouldn't in a live game 'cause you are afraid you might get your *ss kicked by p*ssing off the wrong person. You flat out shouldn't do it. If you do do it live...you will someday have the boots laid to you.call it strategycall it ventingcall whateverthe level of class is the same online or live, in poker or in life....your mother must be very proud.KK

[Guest]

i say NH so they keep chasing runner runner straights and flushes.

[Don Giovanni 0]

you all are making way to big of a deal out of this. when have you yelled at an idiot and actually seen them change the way they play because of it? ive never seen that happen online. also most of the time the people who drew out on you leave before you can get them back, thats what sucks about online play.i dont yell at people much, but i will make a comment if they hit a runner runner on me. and you all shouldnt be so afraid of doing that. if they just took down a pot by playing a 7-2, why would they do anything differently next time? they wont.

[wrto4556 0]

you all are making way to big of a deal out of this. when have you yelled at an idiot and actually seen them change the way they play because of it?

Often.I made fun of a guy, said something along the lines, "you suck!" and he was like: "well what would you do?"I responded: "I'm here to play, not teach."He got up and left.I often see folks tighten way up after someone makes fun of them. The other night, I was playing head-up no limit with a fish. No offense, but a buddy came in and asked a question..."would you ever fold QQ preflop to a raise and a re-raise?" I reluctantly say, "Matter's who's raising."And the fish tightened way up! He was going all in on the river when it went "check check, check check, check check". $70 on the line for $2!! Well, after that he stopped. He tightened up, bluffed less...it was disgusting, so I got up and left.It's really just simple psychology.EDIT: I say "nice hand" and that's it. Ask people that play in the Negreanu Open! :-)