air marshals, baby

[econ_tim 0]

discuss

[ShakeZuma 586]

dude said he had a bomb. they shot him. end of story.

[oumarch110 0]

guy: I have a bomb in this bag.Guy puts hand in bag.Marshall: Take your hand out of the bag.Guy: noMarshall: Take your hand out of the bag.Guy: noMarshall: Take your hand out of the bag.Guy: noGun: Pop!Moving right along....

[commoncents 0]

"you cant say bomb on an airplane""bomb ba ba bomb ba bomb"

[Dead $ 0]

An air marshall is neither an air, nor a marshall. Discuss......

[ispepi 0]

you guys are retarded. dude was bipolar and his wife chased him down the aisle screaming as much.fine, if he's on the plane and he reaches into his bag, for the greater good, maybe you shoot him... in the leg.but when he's on the tarmac, and nobody's around, and his wife's screaming that he's bipolar and not dangerous, maybe you think a second before shooting to kill.he probably has a kid. people who love him. it just sickens me that 'they' create this huge haze of paranoia about all this shit, train these guys to take their job seriously, convince them they're making a difference, and make them sit for years in those seats waiting for some action, and finally they get some, and get all wrapped up in it, and shoot an innocent, albeit unhealthy, man. meanwhile, you can still carry lighters and matches onto planes because the cigarette companies are the most powerful lobbiers in north america. i love technocratic logic. it doesn't have to make sense. it just has to make us rich and powerful

[turd ferguson 1]

you guys are retarded. dude was bipolar and his wife chased him down the aisle screaming as much.fine, if he's on the plane and he reaches into his bag, for the greater good, maybe you shoot him... in the leg.but when he's on the tarmac, and nobody's around, and his wife's screaming that he's bipolar and not dangerous, maybe you think a second before shooting to kill.he probably has a kid. people who love him. it just sickens me that 'they' create this huge haze of paranoia about all this censored, train these guys to take their job seriously, convince them they're making a difference, and make them sit for years in those seats waiting for some action, and finally they get some, and get all wrapped up in it, and shoot an innocent, albeit unhealthy, man. meanwhile, you can still carry lighters and matches onto planes because the cigarette companies are the most powerful lobbiers in north america. i love technocratic logic. it doesn't have to make sense. it just has to make us rich and powerful

Would you have said the same thing on September 12, 2001?

[PMJackson21 0]

meanwhile, you can still carry lighters and matches onto planes because the cigarette companies are the most powerful lobbiers in north america.  

Actually, as of March 1st or so, you are no longer allowed to carry lighters on you, or in your luggage. I always forget, and have gotten them through once or twice, but I've also been stopped and had them throw it away as well.http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=539950I was surprised the tobacco lobbyists let that through as well.Patrick

[loogie 115]

Don't even mention the movie La Bamba on an airplane. You might stutter halfway through.

[tyfgine 0]

you guys are retarded.  dude was bipolar and his wife chased him down the aisle screaming as much.fine, if he's on the plane and he reaches into his bag, for the greater good, maybe you shoot him... in the leg.but when he's on the tarmac, and nobody's around, and his wife's screaming that he's bipolar and not dangerous, maybe you think a second before shooting to kill.he probably has a kid.  people who love him.  it just sickens me that 'they' create this huge haze of paranoia about all this censored, train these guys to take their job seriously, convince them they're making a difference, and make them sit for years in those seats waiting for some action, and finally they get some, and get all wrapped up in it, and shoot an innocent, albeit unhealthy, man.  meanwhile, you can still carry lighters and matches onto planes because the cigarette companies are the most powerful lobbiers in north america.  i love technocratic logic. it doesn't have to make sense. it just has to make us rich and powerful

its probably cause the air marshall is a homicidal maniac, and wanted to live the rest of his life knowing that he was responsible for killing someone.sw

[speedz99 145]

fine, if he's on the plane and he reaches into his bag, for the greater good, maybe you shoot him... in the leg.

Yes, because a shot in the leg will keep him from pressing a button and killing everyone. Nice work, officer.

but when he's on the tarmac, and nobody's around, and his wife's screaming that he's bipolar and not dangerous, maybe you think a second before shooting to kill.

They shot to wound...he died. It happens. Do you really think that while they were screaming at him to get away from the bag and watching his every move they were able to pay attention to the screaming woman behind them? And even if they could hear her, would the fact that he is CRAZY make them let him reach into the bag that he says holds a bomb?

he probably has a kid.  people who love him.

Yes, you're right. We should let crazy people who say they have bombs reach into their bags without shooting them because they might have a kid. Let's not worry about all the kids and other people that would die if a bomb went off.

it just sickens me that 'they' create this huge haze of paranoia about all this censored, train these guys to take their job seriously, convince them they're making a difference, and make them sit for years in those seats waiting for some action, and finally they get some, and get all wrapped up in it, and shoot an innocent, albeit unhealthy, man.

This is all so ignorant that I don't even want to get into it.

meanwhile, you can still carry lighters and matches onto planes because the cigarette companies are the most powerful lobbiers in north america.

You were already proven wrong about this...so I'll leave it alone.

i love technocratic logic. it doesn't have to make sense. it just has to make us rich and powerful

I love people who take advantage of any situation to rag on cops and the system, regardelss of whether or not they were correct.

[ispepi 0]

i thought i covered the part relieving the air marshall of culpability. probably not obviously enough. i'm not saying that he is this blood-thirsty sonnofabitch who wanted to kill someone, i'm only saying that the type of training they undergo precludes their using common sense. and further, that the danger is over-hyped fear-mongering, and simply said, it makes me sad to see a man, bipolar at that, off his medication, killed in front of his wife ( who's pleading with them not to shoot him 'he's bipolar!') for a situation that anyone who isn't brainwashed could analyze and probably solve in a non-violent manner. and i use brainwashed in the loosest manner.( i read an interesting piece in the new yorker a while back speculating on the implications of state-of-the-art military training and what have you, the gist of it being that in world war 2, after the germans had surrendered and america was island hopping, fighting close combat, only 10 percent of soldiers fired their weapons. this was looked upon by the military as inefficient and problematic, thus they undertook a new form of training where they shot targets; desensitize the soldiers so they don't think about what they're doing. in theory. of course, in vietnam, thousands of soldiers come back traumatized because while you shoot a target in training, after actually shooting a human, it inevitably occurs to you what you've done. my point i guess being that i'm sure the guy is traumatized by the event after the fact, probably shrugging it off as best he can saying he did what he was trained to do... but nevertheless feeling guilty, thinking how he could have handled it differently, and thus ergo therefore, unless beset by personal circumstances like ego, bravado, etc. pretty ****ing angry that he was trained as he was, and feeling pretty used. or not. )

[ShakeZuma 586]

fine, if he's on the plane and he reaches into his bag, for the greater good, maybe you shoot him... in the leg.

Yes, because a shot in the leg will keep him from pressing a button and killing everyone. Nice work, officer.

but when he's on the tarmac, and nobody's around, and his wife's screaming that he's bipolar and not dangerous, maybe you think a second before shooting to kill.

They shot to wound...he died. It happens. Do you really think that while they were screaming at him to get away from the bag and watching his every move they were able to pay attention to the screaming woman behind them? And even if they could hear her, would the fact that he is CRAZY make them let him reach into the bag that he says holds a bomb?

he probably has a kid.  people who love him.

Yes, you're right. We should let crazy people who say they have bombs reach into their bags without shooting them because they might have a kid. Let's not worry about all the kids and other people that would die if a bomb went off.

it just sickens me that 'they' create this huge haze of paranoia about all this censored, train these guys to take their job seriously, convince them they're making a difference, and make them sit for years in those seats waiting for some action, and finally they get some, and get all wrapped up in it, and shoot an innocent, albeit unhealthy, man.

This is all so ignorant that I don't even want to get into it.

meanwhile, you can still carry lighters and matches onto planes because the cigarette companies are the most powerful lobbiers in north america.

You were already proven wrong about this...so I'll leave it alone.

i love technocratic logic. it doesn't have to make sense. it just has to make us rich and powerful

I love people who take advantage of any situation to rag on cops and the system, regardelss of whether or not they were correct.

thank you for writing this, Im at work and don't have time to point out all the places he's wrong, so.... what speedz said

[fopkins 0]

meanwhile, you can still carry lighters and matches onto planes because the cigarette companies are the most powerful lobbiers in north america.

Wrong. You can carry safety matches only.The air marshalls followed their training. End of story, beginning of news involvement. :? -fop

[Ron_Mexico 4,238]

By most accounts, I'm pretty liberal and my roommate/best friend has been a cop for 13 years and I hang out with mostly cops. I don't always agree with them because they are a little hardcore b/c of everything they have seen, but I have no problem with what the Marshalls did.He's bipolar and off his meds, him and his wife's fault. You say he did this b/c he's bipolar. What if he created a bomb, b/c he was bi polar?If the cop shot him in the leg, and he actually had a bomb and still pressed the button, blowing up the plane, the cop woulda been crucified for not shooting to kill.YOU ALWAYS SHOOT TO KILL. PERIOD.Sometimes crazy people die. I'm sorry for him and his family, but everyone doesn't get the same fair shake. Thats life. I may seem callous, but this just a fact of life. This may have been suicide by execution. You never know.

[ispepi 0]

let me clarify. i think i'm guilty of getting carried away from what i meant to say by tryignt o defend my point.i'm not saying what they did was immoral. i'm not saying that it couldn't have turned out to be much worse.what mostly bugged me was the complete nonchalance of everyone who talked about it. like it was nothing.i just can't stand not looking at it from the other direction. a lot of time elapses from when this guys on the plane running up and down the aisles to when he's on the tarmac below the plane. you're telling me in all that span of time nobody heard the women pleading? nobody could figure out another way to deal with it? obviously nobody's going to go tackle the guy, but there are other methods available. there has to be, otherwise, that's pretty much the most pitifully narrow training scenario operation procedures (ya i made that up, but it sounds fancy) i've ever heard

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I still can't believe those leftist aging hippies on CNN actually said they should have taser'ed the guy.And the dude in "Meet the Parents" is right: you CAN'T say bomb on an airplane. That's just the way it is.The world we live in today requires absolute security on commercial airplanes. Don't fly on international flights to the US if you're bipolar and not properly medicated.I say job well done, and keep up the good work to the air marshals.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

YOU ALWAYS SHOOT TO KILL. PERIOD.

I'm not a redneck, but I claim to be the child of a proud redneck.My pap always said "Anybody worth shooting is worth shooting twice in the head."

[oumarch110 0]

what mostly bugged me was the complete nonchalance of everyone who talked about it.  like it was nothing.

I think the "nonchalance" was the fact that most of us just took for granted that, however unfortunate, it was a necessary action.

[speedz99 145]

He's bipolar and off his meds, him and his wife's fault.  You say he did this b/c he's bipolar.   What if he created a bomb, b/c he was bi polar?If the cop shot him in the leg, and he actually had a bomb and still pressed the button, blowing up the plane, the cop woulda been crucified for not shooting to kill.This may have been suicide by execution.  You never know.

Good points.

and further, that the danger is over-hyped fear-mongering, and simply said, it makes me sad to see a man, bipolar at that, off his medication, killed in front of his wife ( who's pleading with them not to shoot him 'he's bipolar!') for a situation that anyone who isn't brainwashed could analyze and probably solve in a non-violent manner.

So how would you handle the situation? A man is yelling that he has a bomb, refusing to cooperate, and reaches into his bag? I'm very curious about what you would do. Shoot or take the chance that there is a bomb that could kill hundreds of innocent people?My uncle is bipolar, so I understand how crazy people can get when they are off their meds...but like Ron said the cops just couldn't take the chance that this was a real threat. You don't shoot someone in the leg when they can set off a bomb with one finger.EDIT: just read your reply...i guess we have to wait for the full report to figure out if there was an early chance for them to stop the chain reaction that led to the shooting

[Ron_Mexico 4,238]

let me clarify.  i think i'm guilty of getting carried away from what i meant to say by tryignt o defend my point.i'm not saying what they did was immoral.  i'm not saying that it couldn't have turned out to be much worse.what mostly bugged me was the complete nonchalance of everyone who talked about it.  like it was nothing.i just can't stand not looking at it from the other direction.   a lot of time elapses from when this guys on the plane running up and down the aisles to when he's on the tarmac below the plane.  you're telling me in all that span of time nobody heard the women pleading?  nobody could figure out another way to deal with it?  obviously nobody's going to go tackle the guy, but there are other methods available.  there has to be, otherwise, that's pretty much the most pitifully narrow training scenario operation procedures (ya i made that up, but it sounds fancy) i've ever heard

What if the woman pleading was a planned distraction?You can't think these things through and make a judgment with peoples lives at stake. You have to take one out to save 100, so bet it.TJ, I'm not a redneck by any means, I just know that's what cops are taught. Besides, if someone shot me, and I lived, I'd find the guy that shot me. (if it was for no reason)Didn't you guys see that movies with Denzel and John Lithgow?

[ispepi 0]

funny you mention that ron, in my last post i had written a bit on how they managed to train cops to deal with suicides by execution. that is, air marshalls shoudln't be trained to be prepared for exclusively that, but the point being people can be trained to analyze a situation rathe than react to it. by all accounts i read, there was no real danger of a bomb. his wife was right behind him the whole way pleading. they were diong their jobs, fine. how well were they doing their jobs that he got off the plane and onto the run way. they perhaps had time to thinkg, oh man, i can't shoot inside this crowded plane, wel'l chase him off it and then shoot him? how does that make sense. i'm not saying given another situation that they shoudln't shoot the person.i'm just saying, this particular instance, sounds fishy. much like that guy in london after the subway bombings who was running to catch a train, but because he was brown, was murdered. ooops. sorry, mistaken for a terrorist.

[ispepi 0]

i wish i wasn't a newb and could figure out how to quote. about the 'what if you shot him in the leg and he still pressed a button' you've watched too many movies. from close range, if you shoot someone in the leg, they're not doing anythign but falling down hard. also, i would just like to emphasize the fact that the guy wasn't shot on the friggin plane. he was off it before he got shot. if he's on the plane when he's shot, that's one thing, that changes everything, but somehow he gets off it and then is shot? just fishy to me. way too fishy.not that it was suspcious, malicious on the air marshalls part. just that somewhere, the system failed. i guess that's it. i look at this as an indicatin of the failure of the safeguards they have in place, and you guys look at it as reassuring.

[pokerplayer24 0]

The air marshalls did their job, end of story. Its unfortunate that he had a mental disorder and actually didn't have a bomb but you can get it wrong 20 times and the one time you're right you just saved the 200+ people that are on that airplane. Its sad that we have to think this way but thats just the world we live in.

[speedz99 145]

find the guy that shot me.  (if it was for no reason)Didn't you guys see that movies with Denzel and John Lithgow?

I did, and once I find a mortal enemy I plan on killing him via a long fall onto some sort of spike.