was down tonight (the sequel), took 335 to 10/20

[pokerplayer24 0]

Absurd you guys really love this AJ hand that beats no quality raised hands......

The game is 4 handed. You do realize that right? I mean you played in it. If you had any understanding of poker at all you would understand that the less people at the table the stronger hands like AJs become. Not raising AJs in a full ring game can be considered a leak. Not raising it 4 handed is just bad. If you're up against a hand that is better then AJ, which only consists of AA KK QQ JJ, AK AQ, you will surely here from it before the flop as you will be reraised when its 4 handed. I realize that AJ isnt the best hand but when its 4 handed you have to loosen up and that means raising a wider range of hands preflop. Hands like QJ, KJ, A10 which are all very mediocre in full ring games become far stronger hands when you are playing in a 4 handed game and on top of that are likely to have position on the people who call your raise.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

1) Here, let me make this statement and let's see how you feel..k?I would prefer AJs four handed over AKs in a nine handed game.Why do you think that is? Because I guarantee you that I've got the best hand, oh, 90 percent of the time, roughly. Why would you NOT raise with it? This is really, really bugging me. 2) If that guy was just like you and was *so* shortstacked, did you really think putting him all in was going to get him to fold?He hit a pair when it was fairly obvious you were on a missed flush draw. I think you're going to get this call more times than you realize--or want.3) You said none of your plays were ridiculous because you're just flipping coins for money. No, the plays were just bad. They were made ridiculous by the fact you shouldn't have even been at this table.4) If you want to make your money back, take the amount you lost, go to the online casino, put it on black and cross your fingers. You do realize that's basically what you're doing, correct?5) You say you play to avoid variance. Variance doesn't sound like your problem. Poor preflop and bankroll decisions sound like your problem.6 It sounds like you make a reasonable amount of money doing it, and that's fine. But I think you're missing how much money you left on the table in *just* the hands you showed us.

[Dynon07 0]

Absurd you guys really love this AJ hand that beats no quality raised hands......

The game is 4 handed. You do realize that right? I mean you played in it. If you had any understanding of poker at all you would understand that the less people at the table the stronger hands like AJs become. Not raising AJs in a full ring game can be considered a leak. Not raising it 4 handed is just bad. If you're up against a hand that is better then AJ, which only consists of AA KK QQ JJ, AK AQ, you will surely here from it before the flop as you will be reraised when its 4 handed. I realize that AJ isnt the best hand but when its 4 handed you have to loosen up and that means raising a wider range of hands preflop. Hands like QJ, KJ, A10 which are all very mediocre in full ring games become far stronger hands when you are playing in a 4 handed game and on top of that are likely to have position on the people who call your raise.

For my strategy this will not work. How often do you see people reraising with AK and the flop is nothing and they look like a deer in the headlights. This guy isnt ideal for me, I play very very aggressively. When I see people raising A 10 I think they are idiots. Yeah AJ beats all those hands, but what does it matter when you miss the flop. When you in a room with a bunch of heros they are callin you down anyway. Hell if the flop is 10 2 8 and you raised huge preflop, people automatically assume AK and call you down. I raise these hands occasionally when I'm feeling fancy but raising A 10 preflop is never going to be added to my list of things to do.Yes I obviously understand these hands are stronger shorthanded. Just doesn't fit my style at all. You have to be feared, and when people see you raising AJ is sure doesn't strike fear into anyone.

[pokerplayer24 0]

In the end this is just an example of why NL poker is so profitable. Players tilt, they play above their head and they give money away to those level headed players who play their game and try not to worry about wins or losses.

[Dynon07 0]

Drawingdead I agree with your first statement , I'm just telling you personally raising AJ doesn't not style my style and it would ruin my image.Second statement , I thought the guy was smart and not going to risk call 150 with a pair of 4's. It's not that strong he didn't beat much thats for sure. If you guys like that call, thats your opinion. I don't think its too good, but whatever.Third statement. My plays weren't that bad, You guys play totally different style then me I can already tell. 4th - Yeah its exactly the same, I mentioned above this is extremely stupid and I think shortstacks in general are stupid.5th - I don't have poor preflop decisions just cause I don't raise AJ. My bankroll managements needs a little work, but so does everyones' who lives strictly off this game and nothing else.6th - I don't really get sixth point.Anyway we might as well stop arguing. Your guys perspectives and my perspectives are totally different and we are never going to come to an agreement.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Drawingdead I agree with your first statement , I'm just telling you personally raising AJ doesn't not style my style and it would ruin my image.Second statement , I thought the guy was smart and not going to risk call 150 with a pair of 4's. It's not that strong he didn't beat much thats for sure. If you guys like that call, thats your opinion. I don't think its too good, but whatever.Third statement. My plays weren't that bad, You guys play totally different style then me I can already tell. 4th - Yeah its exactly the same, I mentioned above this is extremely stupid and I think shortstacks in general are stupid.5th - I don't have poor preflop decisions just cause I don't raise AJ. My bankroll managements needs a little work, but so does everyones' who lives strictly off this game and nothing else.6th - I don't really get sixth point.Anyway we might as well stop arguing. Your guys perspectives and my perspectives are totally different and we are never going to come to an agreement.

An agreement does nothing for me. Capitulation is not in *my* best interests. It's in your's.My sixth point was this. Look at the AJ hand. You raise that preflop, you take it down right there, more than likely. You raise that preflop and get called, a continuation bet takes it down on the flop more times than not. See how you left money on the table?

[Dynon07 0]

Well I sat down to AJ suited and it sure didnt put a smile on my face, so I didn't raise it. I can't defend myself here so if you're really interested in my reasoning for all this hit me up on AIM at Dynon07, I'm sure I won't sound like an idiot after we are done talking.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Well I sat down to AJ suited and it sure didnt put a smile on my face, so I didn't raise it. I can't defend myself here so if you're really interested in my reasoning for all this hit me up on AIM at Dynon07, I'm sure I won't sound like an idiot after we are done talking.

I don't care if you're freaking Prahlad Friedman, David Sklansky or a leper who's playing a game with some missionaries. If you don't raise with AJ four handed, you're an idiot and you lose equity.But, to each his own, and you make a profit, so, whatever works for you.

[Dynon07 0]

Well I sat down to AJ suited and it sure didnt put a smile on my face, so I didn't raise it. I can't defend myself here so if you're really interested in my reasoning for all this hit me up on AIM at Dynon07, I'm sure I won't sound like an idiot after we are done talking.

I don't care if you're freaking Prahlad Friedman, David Sklansky or a leper who's playing a game with some missionaries. If you don't raise with AJ four handed, you're an idiot and you lose equity.But, to each his own, and you make a profit, so, whatever works for you.

Raising with AJ just isn't a consistent winning thing with six people on table. Maybe 4 people but not six. Maybe on the button, thats the only time I might consider it. If you raised AJ all night you would miss at least 2 out of 3 times. Then you gotta take stab, only way you can win. Plus the first time that play is exposed you lose lots of credibility , I just dont think its a consistent profitable thing. If you like fancy poker, raise AJ all you want, if you want to bet super strong hands and the nuts into major fish and always win, raising AJ is outta the question. I win 80-90% of hands I am betting in, so it makes no sense for me to raise weak hands like that, it just goes against my strat, just a personal thing.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

Well I sat down to AJ suited and it sure didnt put a smile on my face, so I didn't raise it. I can't defend myself here so if you're really interested in my reasoning for all this hit me up on AIM at Dynon07, I'm sure I won't sound like an idiot after we are done talking.

I don't care if you're freaking Prahlad Friedman, David Sklansky or a leper who's playing a game with some missionaries. If you don't raise with AJ four handed, you're an idiot and you lose equity.But, to each his own, and you make a profit, so, whatever works for you.

Raising with AJ just isn't a consistent winning thing with six people on table. Maybe 4 people but not six. Maybe on the button, thats the only time I might consider it. If you raised AJ all night you would miss at least 2 out of 3 times. Then you gotta take stab, only way you can win. Plus the first time that play is exposed you lose lots of credibility , I just dont think its a consistent profitable thing. If you like fancy poker, raise AJ all you want, if you want to bet super strong hands and the nuts into major fish and always win, raising AJ is outta the question. I win 80-90% of hands I am betting in, so it makes no sense for me to raise weak hands like that, it just goes against my strat, just a personal thing.

It really bothers me that you offer strategy assistance in your avatar, and just said that raising AJs isn't profitable four and six handed.

[teneight 1]

dynon07, what site do you do play at? what is your ID there? just curious. we should play some heads up nl ..any limit you want teneight btw, i'm very serious

[Dynon07 0]

dynon07, what site do you do play at? what is your ID there? just curious. we should play some heads up nl ..any limit you want teneight btw, i'm very serious

I dont play heads up much, it doesn' t suit my strategy.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

dynon07, what site do you do play at? what is your ID there? just curious. we should play some heads up nl ..any limit you want teneight btw, i'm very serious

I dont play heads up much, it doesn' t suit my strategy.

I want to know what this strategy is.It's profitable, if we can believe you, and I trust that we can.But, you've demonstrated the ability to piss on the concept of expected value, hand values, table texture and general concepts, so..let's hear it.

[Dynon07 0]

It really bothers me that you offer strategy assistance in your avatar, and just said that raising AJs isn't profitable four and six handed.Most of my strategy advice is given by other knowledgable players. There is only one strategy I would personally recommend . The one you can live off poker with. Other people have different motives to play , and different objectives. If you want to play quality poker and have an exciting time there is other ways to play, but i only advocate my way with nets profit 85-90% of sessions.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

It really bothers me that you offer strategy assistance in your avatar' date=' and just said that raising AJs isn't profitable four and six handed.[/quote']Most of my strategy advice is given by other knowledgable players. There is only one strategy I would personally recommend . The one you can live off poker with. Other people have different motives to play , and different objectives. If you want to play quality poker and have an exciting time there is other ways to play, but i only advocate my way with nets profit 85-90% of sessions.

-Thankfully, it's not given by you.-To have fun? To make the most money possible? It's one of the two..so...-Bullshit. Plain and simple. No one wins 85-90% of the time. Maybe over a twenty session period. But not a 100, or 200, or 300.

[Abbaddabba 0]

I object to someone who clearly knows so little about poker refering to the money in their account as a bankroll.Since we're trying to sound all technical and professional, I think it could more accurately be equated with accounts receivable for the people who he plays with.If he has had any success, he either is lying or has been running well for a prolonged period of time.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

-sigh-I feel dumber by osmosis after reading this thread.When you do go broke, I'm sure you'll have all kinds of reasons why it's not your fault.

[ChrisOfSpades 0]

this is the part that gets me. you dont raise preflop w/ AJ. that's fine and dandy. personal preference, whatever. but you get upset when second pair calls you down when you make a bad play on the river. lets break this down for you:1 - you give him a free ride in the big blind when he has 47s. flop comes 6 3 2, two spades, which gives him a GREAT drawing hand (spade draw w/ a gutshot). given this, he has GREAT odds to call your flop bet of $40. by the time it gets back around to him, there's already $150 in the pot. EASY call, even if you don't like "math". (at this point, if i was him, my read on you would be a weak 6 or a draw)2 - a 4 turns, giving him second pair in addition to his two draws. since it gets checked around, there is no reason to believe anybody has a 6 or an overpair. looks like everyone is still drawing.3 - duece rivers, and you bet $150. now, every single draw missed, unless you wanna believe someone could have bet or called on the flop w/ a deuce. so this guy doesn't figure you for a 6 or overpair, knows you missed your draw, and now must be wondering, "why'd he bet $150?". this bet just SCREAMS bluff. is it an easy call? no. but definitely a reasonable call given the info.now, my two questions:- why do you bet so much of your stack on this bluff? if you think he's folding to $150, then he's prolly folding to $50 or $75 in this pot.- if you don't bet AJ preflop cuz its a drawing hand, why would you bet it on the river when your draw missed? betting this river affects your image more than betting it preflop would.

[Jordan 1]

I don't mind mucking ATo Pre-flop UTG in a six handed game.Mucking ATs depends on table reads.Mucking AJs 6 handed UTG is not good.I raise ATs 6 handed in a LHE game, but I think it changes a little bit in a no limit game cause of the power of position, which is very important six handed.But also, raises UTG in most games six max or full ring are usually respected, so as I said, raising ATs UTG really depends a lot on the table I think.- Jordan

[Dynon07 0]

dynon07, what site do you do play at? what is your ID there? just curious. we should play some heads up nl ..any limit you want teneight btw, i'm very serious

I dont play heads up much, it doesn' t suit my strategy.

I want to know what this strategy is.It's profitable, if we can believe you, and I trust that we can.But, you've demonstrated the ability to piss on the concept of expected value, hand values, table texture and general concepts, so..let's hear it.

I referred to it before. I posted it in strategy under Play the List and Trust the Gut.The only time I pissed on these things is when I went to this room and just played tournament style poker, in an effort to acquire 500 back as quickly as possible. This is no way a reflection of my normal strategy and I made that clear time after time. Yeah I don't use the lingo, the EV, the anything. I play off intuition and good judgment. People that don't believe me fine, that's your opinion. I posted something that I openly deemed wrong. Then I get people saying they are sure people foam at the mouth when they see me?? Hardly, when I play normally I fire fire fire take huge and never give back cause I fold as soon as I lose leads of hands. These plays weren't even that bad, and for all you people that are falling in love so much with that 4 7 spades call, need some serious help. Glad that blatant heroism is so condoned in this place, what happened to that guy?? He busted of course, cause he tried the same stupid nonsense later and someone had it. The thing is, when I play normal I do have it, every single time, and these people pay me every single time. Thats how it works, cause its not a smart thing to fall behind in hands then call large bets when the board is gay. Sorry that doesn't come across as SKILL to me. Its retarded, passive people are not talented, they just have control issues and cannot fold, don't confuse this with skill. It's not. Not raising AJ, why.... I just sat down. I didn't want to raise to 80-100 which would be standard raise then get reraised... what do I do then? I was watching this room for 15-30 minutes before I entered and people were coming over the top of shortstacks with much much less. I decided to check the flop and see what happens. I dislike tournament style poker in cash games and people act much much differently in raised pots. Why counterfeit your ability to outplay people by going all in preflop??? My strength is my post flop judgment, and while some of you see my AJ limping as stupid and weak I disagree. When I play 2 /4 normally I fire, fire, fire and I can't be doing this with A 10 and such. My raises will mean nothing. When I see people raise AJ preflop I call with anything cause usually they overvalue hands and you can just put them to a tough decision on the flop. And finally for all of you who are so positive, so influenced by my 2 visits to 10/20 where I was playing shortstacked poker , that I am a terrible player. Download Prima Poker and watch Dynon07 play. I would bet my entire soul that even after an hour you would revoke all the negative things that have been said. If you watch me and analyze some hands I played and come to the conclusion "hey this guys still sux IMO he is a tight weak loser" then I will drop everything I am saying and just give up. I am not a bad player in any right, I played all my hands a lot more passively then usual but I was really trying to leave with close to 1000 so I didn't want to fly all in with AQ or AJ or something. I disagree with those plays."Lastly just because a person doesn't abbreviate every concept in poker, play according to the books every time, doesn't mean they are a terrible player. I have no doubts all of you commenting in this thread has a great deal of talent. You are surely far more versed in these concepts then I am. However , I did not learn to play poker from a book or a forum. I played and played and played and formed my own opinions. I came to some strong conclusions and one of them was my raising list, and it doesn't include AJ. This things became much more popular after I already came to many grand epiphanies about this game. I play this game to live, I make decent money per year off 1/2 and occassionally higher. You guys can hate and insult all you like, but come watch me play sometime you will change your mind. I am open to talk on AIM or whatever you want if you want to really get in depth. Anyway my name is Dynon07 , I have an account on all poker sites.And DrawingDead , when you give people advice you have to find the reason they want to play poker. Most people say duh...to make money, but its more complicated than that. Some people enjoy outplaying people, some people like fancy plays, some people like to grind , etc. I sacrificed some of my true talent to play a style that brings in consistent income. Raising AJ and A 10 brings variance so I decided against it. Some hands I know I am ahead but I just fold anyway, its not worth heroing someone with low pair and losing 200 cause they hit. I choose to lead the hands I win, thats how I play and I am hardly ever in a calling situation. Most people can't play this strategy cause they don't have enough discipline, cause you have to be really patient. Online poker nowadays is a giant pride measuring contest. People are trying to outplay each other every hand and they wanna call giant bets with Ace high. Whatever thats not for me, I attacked weak players with giant bets in situations where I am positive they can not fold. If I do not get outdrawn, I always win, always. Thats the bottom line. Days that I lose money I am not playing with all my skill. I always play till I make money, so that is why my session win rate is high. I either lose a huge deal cause I couldn't get it back and go to bed or I play until I am even. I had a great deal of confidence in my skill, and all players that do should always play till they win. You will if you don't get outdrawn. Ever since the beginning I've been trying to give more credit to people for different strategies and I've come along way. If people do things that I don't normally agree with but justify them, fine good for them thats fine. I play this game to always win money and put food on the table, so I can't be playing fancy make moves poker. Yeah I am a hypocrite for what I did the last 2 nights, but hey everyone makes mistakes and I know it wasn't the best choice. Now I look back in hindsight and realize how ridiculous it was and I will work to make sure it doesn't happen again until I have the proper bankroll. I just posted the experience cause I thought it was interesting. I didn't mean for everyone to get so hateful and bring massive amounts of negativity to the thread.

[jayistheman 0]

dynon07, what site do you do play at? what is your ID there? just curious. we should play some heads up nl ..any limit you want teneight btw, i'm very serious

i've seen you start threads where you have done the same thing. taken a shot at a higher limit, knowingly, while not playing your optimum game.i'm not gonna get too involved in this... but.-I've watched dynon book a win on 80%+ of his sessions for the past few years.. some have taken him days of steady play to get up, but it happened. I wouldn't believe it either, but its true.-Dynon did say that he wasn't making a wise decision, and it was kind of a fit of passion. This is not his normal play. I have told him not to do this personally, but to each his own. He can afford to roll the dice with 300 or so bucks, so who am I to stop him?-when i played short stack strategy, i didn't raise AJ too often. then again, I was playing to get it all in as quickly as possible, and AJ didn't often show to be profitable. I don't know if that is his motive or not.-personally, I would never do this. I have discussed this with him, and we actually had a less-than-civil exchange due to clashing opinion. He has gamble in him. He is willing to lose the money in an attempt to saciate his frustration.... after all, it IS his money.-i recognize that he should not have posted this in strat, if at all, as the jackals attack everything, good or not. I have done it myself.I have christmas shopping to do with my girlfriend. :roll: if you take exception with this response, i'd like to discuss it with you, partly in defense of a friend, and partly to diffuse the inordinate anger/ egos that some of you seem to harbor.

[CoolHandLaw 0]

I stopped reading the posts after the first few flames from drawing dead and fopkins. Dont you guy see that he was doing it for fun? you guys need to take that stick out of your ass. Or at least relax the sphincters a bit.This shit's entertaining. Take it at face value. He wasn't trying to give a poker lesson.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

I stopped reading the posts after the first few flames from drawing dead and fopkins. Dont you guy see that he was doing it for fun? you guys need to take that stick out of your ass. Or at least relax the sphincters a bit

You said all you needed to say when you said you stopped reading the posts after the first few.First, he was doing it to get back to get even on the night, not just for fun.Second, I just had a long talk with him on AIM, and he explained a lot of things that were a bit un clear.I don't think he's a donk. I don't think he's a bad player; in fact I Know he's not.I think he made some unwise decisions, both bankroll management and on the table that night.We've talked about all the things that needed to be talked about and squared everythign away. Maybe you should put your head back in your ass, so you don't make such ignorant posts.

[CoolHandLaw 0]

Explain how my post was ignorant.I merely stated I stopped reading after you guys were flaming him. Sure, I said it was for fun, but that also means he's not an idiot and realizes that doing that is not a sustainable winrate. Your plethora of anger leads me to believe that you haven't been laid in a while. I can see why if that's a picture of you as your avatar.

[ChrisOfSpades 0]

Yeah I don't use the lingo, the EV, the anything. I play off intuition and good judgment. People that don't believe me fine, that's your opinion. I posted something that I openly deemed wrong. Then I get people saying they are sure people foam at the mouth when they see me?? Hardly, when I play normally I fire fire fire take huge and never give back cause I fold as soon as I lose leads of hands. These plays weren't even that bad, and for all you people that are falling in love so much with that 4 7 spades call, need some serious help. Glad that blatant heroism is so condoned in this place, what happened to that guy?? He busted of course, cause he tried the same stupid nonsense later and someone had it. The thing is, when I play normal I do have it, every single time, and these people pay me every single time. Thats how it works, cause its not a smart thing to fall behind in hands then call large bets when the board is gay. Sorry that doesn't come across as SKILL to me. Its retarded, passive people are not talented, they just have control issues and cannot fold, don't confuse this with skill. It's not.

you keep sayin things that are mad hypocritical. im not gonna criticize your strategy. you've obviously spent some time developing a strategy that works for you, and that's cool. you're a good player that took a chance, and i wont dispute that. and if you don't agree that calling w/ 47 when your opponent has done nothing to show he has a better hand, that's cool too. but to call that play retarded? come on dog. you've already admitted to purposely playing poorly to make a quick buck, and you've tried to tell us that this isn't your normal play. how do you know that dude was doin the same exact thing? he might have his own reasons for makin a play that you call 'retarded'. like maybe he was pissin away a few hundred dollars cuz he just won the lotto, or got a huge bonus at work, or whatever. but if he's retarded for his call, that would make you retarded for your bet, and i know you dont want us thinkin that.