stopping results oriented thinking?

[RayPowers 0]

I have a friend, and am trying to to show him what little I know. The biggest problem right now is moving him away from Results oriented thinking.He had KK and raised it. All of a sudden he was three bet, and he sends me a and I typed back "CAP IT! CAP IT!" His response was why, the guy has aces.Of course, just to make it worse, the guy did have Aces, and no my friend was neither named Tritz nor had Magic Goggles number 1. So, by his amazing way of thinking, he has just saved a bet by not capping preflop, and he has the hand right there to prove it.Do I give up on this? Can you think of a good way to get someone off of results oriented thinking?Ray

[akishore 0]

the best solution is electrocution. just buy some electric nodes and a AC generator with a few wires and a trusty red switch.a cheaper alternative is a cattleprod.aseem

[RayPowers 0]

the best solution is electrocution. just buy some electric nodes and a AC generator with a few wires and a trusty red switch.a cheaper alternative is a cattleprod.aseem

It's all via aim, so unless I can do this remotely...Ray

[Actuary 3]

I'm that guy.Well, was that guy.And to some extent on the River, I still am.Is he playing well within his BankRoll?How can I phrase this next one....If he were to lose an extra bet capping, but on the next time he has KK, gain an extra bet by capping, would the two cancel out in his heart. Or does losing hurt more than winning feels good?Put more succinctly: Is his utility curve, such that losing effects him too much and he'd rather sacrifice +EV for lower risk?

[yergan 0]

One of my friends saw pocket Aces get cracked by pocket 3s on the WSOP coverage (Sammy Farha maybe?). He then goes on to tell me how he hates pocket aces, they never win etc etc. I told him that we will have a bet. I hold pocket Aces, he has pocket 3s and we will deal out 100 flops. Winner after each flop gets a dollar.Maybe get your friend to do something similar. Show him the difference between short run and long run and explain to him about how he will be better off in the long run.

[Sushiman 0]

Just give it up. You cannot argue with people like that becuase they want to live in thier own risk free little world.I've argued this point with one of my friends for 3 hours. He argued that my raising a nut flush draw on a multiway flop is a result of me having won large pots with it before, and hence is results oriented thinking and not actual good play. Meanwhile, he won't limp pocket pairs in a NL game because "the set just doesn't hit" for him, which was obviously mathmatical fact. We almost had a fight because I was trying to drum the math in and he only believes what he's seen the last couple of sessions at the poker table. Let donkeys be donkeys. If they follow your advice it will be with a negative mindset and will only come back to blame you if it didn't work out.

[mrdannyg 274]

Just give it up. You cannot argue with people like that becuase they want to live in thier own risk free little world.I've argued this point with one of my friends for 3 hours. He argued that my raising a nut flush draw on a multiway flop is a result of me having won large pots with it before, and hence is results oriented thinking and not actual good play. Meanwhile, he won't limp pocket pairs in a NL game because "the set just doesn't hit" for him, which was obviously mathmatical fact. We almost had a fight because I was trying to drum the math in and he only believes what he's seen the last couple of sessions at the poker table. Let donkeys be donkeys. If they follow your advice it will be with a negative mindset and will only come back to blame you if it didn't work out.

the point is, this is a friend and the OP wants to teach him how to play well.usually its just a question of individual mindset how often they understand this. personally, i have taught 4 friends to play, with vastly differing results. of those 4, two of them still do not play "properly" in that they play according to results and according to their current mood.for that particular situation, try to get him in the mindset of a few different types of opponents. then ask him, while he's within those mindsets, what hands he would raise with given the current situation of the villain in the hand above. when your friend sees what a huge advantage his kings have over the average villain's average range of hands, he'll (hopefully) see the value in capping it.daniel

[Mattnxtc 0]

One of my friends saw pocket Aces get cracked by pocket 3s on the WSOP coverage (Sammy Farha maybe?). He then goes on to tell me how he hates pocket aces, they never win etc etc. I told him that we will have a bet. I hold pocket Aces, he has pocket 3s and we will deal out 100 flops. Winner after each flop gets a dollar.Maybe get your friend to do something similar. Show him the difference between short run and long run and explain to him about how he will be better off in the long run.

did he really make this bet...can i meet ur freind and make a similar bet...ill even let him hold kk and ill hold aa so he can feel like he has almost as good a hand

[RayPowers 0]

I'm that guy.Well, was that guy.And to some extent on the River, I still am.Is he playing well within his BankRoll?How can I phrase this next one....If he were to lose an extra bet capping, but on the next time he has KK, gain an extra bet by capping, would the two cancel out in his heart. Or does losing hurt more than winning feels good?Put more succinctly: Is his utility curve, such that losing effects him too much and he'd rather sacrifice +EV for lower risk?

He is playing within his bankroll, so much as he has one. And yes, he appears to be actively sacrificing EV for lower risk.Ray

[Actuary 3]

And yes, he appears to be actively sacrificing EV for lower risk.Ray

that's a clear sign off someone who is playing with scared money.Maybe take him to micro-micro limits

[pokerplayer24 0]

If hes results oriented let him be results oriented. When he sees that over 10k hands he has a crap winrate or is a losing player then he'll start understanding.

[yergan 0]

One of my friends saw pocket Aces get cracked by pocket 3s on the WSOP coverage (Sammy Farha maybe?).  He then goes on to tell me how he hates pocket aces, they never win etc etc.  I told him that we will have a bet. I hold pocket Aces, he has pocket 3s and we will deal out 100 flops. Winner after each flop gets a dollar.Maybe get your friend to do something similar. Show him the difference between short run and long run and explain to him about how he will be better off in the long run.

did he really make this bet...can i meet ur freind and make a similar bet...ill even let him hold kk and ill hold aa so he can feel like he has almost as good a hand

He refused to bet. He kept telling me he was right, but wouldnt make the bet. I should post this in "you know you're playing a fish" thread, but his reasoning was that they both have equal chances of getting another Ace or 3. He didnt realise that the pocket aces dont need to hit another one.

[RayPowers 0]

And yes, he appears to be actively sacrificing EV for lower risk.Ray

that's a clear sign off someone who is playing with scared money.Maybe take him to micro-micro limits

I dunno if I go with this. He seems to not care about the money. He just has a negative attitude about his possibility of winning, period. The actual valueof winning in terms of monetary gain or loss seems immaterial..And he's playing $3/6 in casinos and $0.25 NL online. Not like I can move him down much more. :)Ray