home game tourney hand opinions?

[PhilBluff 0]

Hey guys just lookin for some opinion that crippled me last night12 person tourney format home game. Been the chip leader since hand 5 and I built a monster stack. Top 2 payout and we were down to 3. I was in the big blind at 100-200 blinds. The guy, who once down to 4 raising constantly stealing blinds and such makes a normal 200 raise on top of the blind to make it 400. I look down and im dealt A-6o so I just call seeing a flop. The flop comes 8-A-6 rainbow. Both check. Turn is a 4 to complete the rainbow. I check again with two pair hoping to trap and I get my wish as he raises 300. I reraise him there to 800 thinking he has got rags trying to steal the pot or A-x. He comes back over the top for additional 1000 to make it 2,100 to go. He has only about 600 left. So I am thinking the only two hands I am worried about are 88 or A-8. I push after thinking about it and he turns up 88. I am down to Ace as a 6 hits the river to give me 6's full to his 8's full, crippling my stack but still survive til my 8's get busted by a set of 10's Either way I believe my money is in the pot by the river. Do you guys think so? It a hard hand to get away from as hes is constantly raising so I could not possibly put him on 8's

[Bizzle 0]

Hey guys just lookin for some opinion that crippled me last night12 person tourney format home game. Been the chip leader since hand 5 and I built a monster stack. Top 2 payout and we were down to 3. I was in the big blind at 100-200 blinds. The guy, who once down to 4 raising constantly stealing blinds and such makes a normal 200 raise on top of the blind to make it 400. I look down and im dealt A-6o so I just call seeing a flop. The flop comes 8-A-6 rainbow. Both check. Turn is a 4 to complete the rainbow. I check again with two pair hoping to trap and I get my wish as he raises 300. I reraise him there to 800 thinking he has got rags trying to steal the pot or A-x. He comes back over the top for additional 1000 to make it 2,100 to go. He has only about 600 left. So I am thinking the only two hands I am worried about are 88 or A-8. I push after thinking about it and he turns up 88. I am down to Ace as a 6 hits the river to give me 6's full to his 8's full, crippling my stack but still survive til my 8's get busted by a set of 10's Either way I believe my money is in the pot by the river. Do you guys think so? It a hard hand to get away from as hes is constantly raising so I could not possibly put him on 8's

Always fold top and bottom pair in three handed situations against aggressive players.Always.Seriously though, I worry about his flop check. Do I get away from it? Probably not. He could easily be thinking that you are drawing dead against his AK or AQ. You left out two huge pieces of information though-was he the SB or the button, and what were his postflop tendencies? If he raised preflop, did he always bet hard postflop?

[SHOTPUTSTAR 0]

Always fold top and bottom pair in three handed situations against aggressive players.

Always.

[Socrates 0]

Just calling a min raise to see a flop oop of position is horrible, especially with a vulnerable hand like yours. If you do choose to play back at him becasue of your read (e.g. stealing alot etc...) you need to provide him with the equity to fold the hand pf. IMO, if youare going to play this pot, you need to jam in this spot.

[PhilBluff 0]

Hey guys just lookin for some opinion that crippled me last night12 person tourney format home game.  Been the chip leader since hand 5 and I built a monster stack.  Top 2 payout and we were down to 3.  I was in the big blind at 100-200 blinds.  The guy, who once down to 4 raising constantly stealing blinds and such makes a normal 200 raise on top of the blind to make it 400.  I look down and im dealt A-6o so I just call seeing a flop.  The flop comes 8-A-6 rainbow.  Both check. Turn is a 4  to complete the rainbow.  I check again with two pair hoping to trap and I get my wish as he raises 300.  I reraise him there to 800 thinking he has got rags trying to steal the pot or A-x.  He comes back over the top for additional 1000 to make it 2,100 to go.  He has only about 600 left.  So I am thinking the only two hands I am worried about are 88 or A-8.  I push after thinking about it and he turns up 88.   I am down to Ace as a 6 hits the river to give me 6's full to his 8's full, crippling my stack but still survive til my 8's get busted by a set of 10's Either way I believe my money is in the pot by the river.  Do you guys think so?  It a hard hand to get away from as hes is constantly raising so I could not possibly put him on 8's

Always fold top and bottom pair in three handed situations against aggressive players.Always.Seriously though, I worry abot his flop check. Do I get away from it? Probably not. He could easily be thinking that you are drawing dead against his AK or AQ. You left out two huge pieces of information though-was he the SB or the button, and what were his postflop tendencies? If he raised preflop, did he always bet hard postflop?

I have played with him on several occasions and he plays aggressive pre flop then plays the flop equally aggressive afterwards. I've seen him check nut straights to the river at times too. He was the button on this hand. I am 100% sure if i just call his raise on the turn im all in on the river anyways

[Neverdoubt 0]

I have the same concern as Bizzle, because if he's as aggressive as you say that means he bets the flop consistantly as well, and him checking the flop in this situation raises a flag, the problem is that you filled up on the river which means there are only a couple of hands that beat you. The check on the flop would make me suspicious and I would pry just call the turn bet, on the river however it would be unfortunate to see a 6 and I think all my chips would hit the center. The other option would be the reraise on the turn as a feeler bet because he can pry only reraise you with one of the holdings that has you beat. So reraising on the turn w/ a possibility to throwing away is an option as well. But being 3 handed it would be tough to lay this hand down.

[Scott3705 0]

I'm not getting away from it, but I honestly play this hand much different.I'm lookign to c/r this flop. but the guy who's been so aggressive checks behind me with position with an Ace on board. ???? He's he the type that would try to block a check raise or is he looking for you to catch up to a monster? Turn: I'm leading the turn. If I'm raised, I'm honestly worried and calling down and hopefully getting to the river as cheap as possible. I'm very leery of aggressive players that slow down on boards that they, as PF raisers, should be betting.Edit: Just realized that you actually posted results. Don't post results, you'll get better responses that way.

[Bizzle 0]

Just calling a min raise to see a flop oop of position is horrible, especially with a vulnerable hand like yours. If you do choose to play back at him becasue of your read (e.g. stealing alot etc...) you need to provide him with the equity to fold the hand pf. IMO, if youare going to play this pot, you need to jam in this spot.

I have played with him on several occasions and he plays aggressive pre flop then plays the flop equally aggressive afterwards.  I've seen him check nut straights to the river at times too.  He was the button on this hand.  I am 100% sure if i just call his raise on the turn im all in on the river anyways

Yeah, I was going to mention the preflop play once I found out whether the other player was the SB or the button. If the raiser was the button, yeah it's prolly not a good play to flat-call the minraise, if you feel you have the best hand you need to pop it to 1200 or 1400 here preflop. If the raiser is the SB, I am ok with calling, as you now have position and can easily outplay the raiser postflop.The quote that concerns me is that you say he plays equally aggressive postflop as he does preflop, but he checks down nut straights. Unfortunately, this eliminates almost all A-x holdings he could have from his hand. You seem to indicate that the only thing he would check in this position is a monster...well what monsters can he have if you are holding A6? Can I fold this hand on the river? Folding full houses against aggressive players is most likely -ev. But can I fold it when it gets three bet on the turn? I would think about it (although once again, I probably wouldn't do it).I have a decent story from the 10+1 deepstacks yesterday that relates to this, I will wait to hear your response before I type it up.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Hey guys just lookin for some opinion that crippled me last night12 person tourney format home game.  Been the chip leader since hand 5 and I built a monster stack.  Top 2 payout and we were down to 3.  I was in the big blind at 100-200 blinds.  The guy, who once down to 4 raising constantly stealing blinds and such makes a normal 200 raise on top of the blind to make it 400.  I look down and im dealt A-6o so I just call seeing a flop.  The flop comes 8-A-6 rainbow.  Both check. Turn is a 4  to complete the rainbow.  I check again with two pair hoping to trap and I get my wish as he raises 300.  I reraise him there to 800 thinking he has got rags trying to steal the pot or A-x.  He comes back over the top for additional 1000 to make it 2,100 to go.  He has only about 600 left.  So I am thinking the only two hands I am worried about are 88 or A-8.  I push after thinking about it and he turns up 88.   I am down to Ace as a 6 hits the river to give me 6's full to his 8's full, crippling my stack but still survive til my 8's get busted by a set of 10's Either way I believe my money is in the pot by the river.  Do you guys think so?  It a hard hand to get away from as hes is constantly raising so I could not possibly put him on 8's

DO NOT POST RESULTSYou played this horribly and were forced to call because you let yourself get to that situation.I personally hate A rag off, and would opt to fold to even a min raise 3 way. HU is different.U flopped 2 pair (top/bottom), you are chip leader, 3 way, no reasons to get cute.The check is ok, but i'm leading out this flop. He min raised, you thinkl he holds an A? perhaps we can find out more info on this flop to how strong he is.if he smooth calls, i check raise the turn, if he comes back over the top i fold.if the turn goes check/check, then i check call the river (as long as he doesnt get crazy and push)(the river 6 is not in my mind at this point), i'm watching the hand play out from the flop. and trying to figure out what he has.lead out flop. if we get called , i check/ raise the turn, if he comes back over the top of our check raise, i fold.

[Scott3705 0]

I don't know why I'm the only one that doesn't find the call that disagreeable. I'd like to see a flop with A6 for a min raise from an aggressive player. the 200 isn't that significant to the stack and i'm going to let it go if i don't connect. I honestly don't like reraising with A6 here unless the blinds were a little more significant. (which it doesn't seem like they were from the post). We take the lead.. yes. But we're out of position for the rest of the hand and now the pot is getting expensive to put a continuation bet in if we don't connect on the flop.

[benhoug 0]

I check again with two pair hoping to trap and I get my wish as he raises 300.  

Why are we hoping to trap w/ 2 pair? Sure 2 pair beats a big Ace (like AQ or AJ), or a bluff, but I have no idea why we're trapping w/ such a weak hand. Maybe it's just a difference in style, but I don't see much value in trapping w/ this hand in this spot. In order for me to "slowplay" somebody (barring me having an excellent read) I've got to have a pretty big hand, and even then I feel like I get paid off more by betting aggressively.I understand that you're 3-handed, but maybe re-evaluate trapping w/ such weak holdings.

[Bizzle 0]

I don't know why I'm the only one that doesn't find the call that disagreeable.  I'd like to see a flop with A6 for a min raise from an aggressive player.  the 200 isn't that significant to the stack and i'm going to let it go if i don't connect.  I honestly don't like reraising with A6 here unless the blinds were a little more significant. (which it doesn't seem like they were from the post).  We take the lead.. yes.  But we're out of position for the rest of the hand and now the pot is getting expensive to put a continuation bet in if we don't connect on the flop.

Position. Once again-I like the call if you have position on them. If you are OOP, you need to make them make a decision and make them pay to have the position.

[Bizzle 0]

You played this horribly and were forced to call because you let yourself get to that situation.I personally hate A rag off, and would opt to fold to even a min raise 3 way. HU is different.U flopped 2 pair (top/bottom),  you are chip leader,  3 way, no reasons to get cute.The check is ok, but i'm leading out this flop.  He min raised, you thinkl he holds an A?  perhaps we can find out more info on this flop to how strong he is.if he smooth calls, i check raise the turn,  if he comes back over the top i fold.if the turn goes check/check, then i check call the river (as long as he doesnt get crazy and push)(the river 6 is not in my mind at this point), i'm watching the hand play out from the flop. and trying to figure out what he has.lead out flop.  if we get called ,   i check/ raise the turn,   if he comes back over the top of our check raise, i fold.

I guess my question is this-what hands do you think will call on the flop and will bet out when checked to on the turn? I would expect something like AJ to reraise me on this flop. As he has still left out what position the raiser was in (please god give out this info, you are killing me here!), it is tough for me to avocate leading into the flop and then going for the check-raise on the turn.

[Royal_Tour 0]

You played this horribly and were forced to call because you let yourself get to that situation.I personally hate A rag off, and would opt to fold to even a min raise 3 way. HU is different.U flopped 2 pair (top/bottom),  you are chip leader,  3 way, no reasons to get cute.The check is ok, but i'm leading out this flop.  He min raised, you thinkl he holds an A?  perhaps we can find out more info on this flop to how strong he is.if he smooth calls, i check raise the turn,  if he comes back over the top i fold.if the turn goes check/check, then i check call the river (as long as he doesnt get crazy and push)(the river 6 is not in my mind at this point), i'm watching the hand play out from the flop. and trying to figure out what he has.lead out flop.  if we get called ,   i check/ raise the turn,   if he comes back over the top of our check raise, i fold.

I guess my question is this-what hands do you think will call on the flop and will bet out when checked to on the turn? I would expect something like AJ to reraise me on this flop. As he has still left out what position the raiser was in (please god give out this info, you are killing me here!), it is tough for me to avocate leading into the flop and then going for the check-raise on the turn.

its 3 handed, my only guess is villain is button, he raised min. sb folds, and he called. then he is first to act.any big ace might raise us on this flop. but any set would probably smooth call with a rainbow board.so, lets put our brains to work. we have a donkey hand, top and bottom pair. what do we do? lead out this flop, thats what. if we get raised, its easier to put villain on a big ace or PP trying to push us off if we dont have an A.I am really having trouble seeing this guy do any sort of raising on the flop with a set.

[Bizzle 0]

I guess my question is this-what hands do you think will call on the flop and will bet out when checked to on the turn?  I would expect something like AJ to reraise me on this flop.  As he has still left out what position the raiser was in (please god give out this info, you are killing me here!), it is tough for me to avocate leading into the flop and then going for the check-raise on the turn.

its 3 handed, my only guess is villain is button, he raised min. sb folds, and he called. then he is first to act.any big ace might raise us on this flop. but any set would probably smooth call with a rainbow board.so, lets put our brains to work. we have a donkey hand, top and bottom pair. what do we do? lead out this flop, thats what. if we get raised, its easier to put villain on a big ace or PP trying to push us off if we dont have an A.I am really having trouble seeing this guy do any sort of raising on the flop with a set.

Well, if you noticed in my post, I didn't say anything bad about leading out at the flop. My question was, and still is, what calls the flop bet and then bets when checked to on the turn. I agree he would reraise with a big pp or a decent to big ace, and probably calls with a weaker ace, and maybe even some combinations of 8-x or 6-x combos. Possibly even a 9-7 or 5-7. Once again, the questions is...what flat-calls the flop and leads out on the turn? I am guessing that unless you think he would flat call with a big ace on the flop, that the turn would go check check almost regardless. I think going for the CR on the turn is just very unwise-if he checks behind you, now all you have done is charged him 1 bet to draw 2 cards if you are ahead, and you will have no idea as to whether you are ahead or not when the river comes around, where if he raises your bet you are in a world of hurt.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I guess my question is this-what hands do you think will call on the flop and will bet out when checked to on the turn?  I would expect something like AJ to reraise me on this flop.  As he has still left out what position the raiser was in (please god give out this info, you are killing me here!), it is tough for me to avocate leading into the flop and then going for the check-raise on the turn.

its 3 handed, my only guess is villain is button, he raised min. sb folds, and he called. then he is first to act.any big ace might raise us on this flop. but any set would probably smooth call with a rainbow board.so, lets put our brains to work. we have a donkey hand, top and bottom pair. what do we do? lead out this flop, thats what. if we get raised, its easier to put villain on a big ace or PP trying to push us off if we dont have an A.I am really having trouble seeing this guy do any sort of raising on the flop with a set.

Well, if you noticed in my post, I didn't say anything bad about leading out at the flop. My question was, and still is, what calls the flop bet and then bets when checked to on the turn. I agree he would reraise with a big pp or a decent to big ace, and probably calls with a weaker ace, and maybe even some combinations of 8-x or 6-x combos. Possibly even a 9-7 or 5-7. Once again, the questions is...what flat-calls the flop and leads out on the turn? I am guessing that unless you think he would flat call with a big ace on the flop, that the turn would go check check almost regardless. I think going for the CR on the turn is just very unwise-if he checks behind you, now all you have done is charged him 1 bet to draw 2 cards if you are ahead, and you will have no idea as to whether you are ahead or not when the river comes around, where if he raises your bet you are in a world of hurt.

no ur asking the qrong questions. You arent paying attention from the flop to the turn.A,8,6 rainbow. he raise dmin preflop. the only "world of trouble we wil be in by letting him have a free card onthe turn is runner runner flush, or a straight. which if its a 4 card straight is easy to fold.or if he played 5,7 or something to that degree, than good for him for getting lucky.But you're asking, if he calls out flop and checks the turn, then i imagine he's on a HUGE hand, or a crap one. like 8's or w.e.theres really not much we can do but try to examine his play. if he doesnt fold to our flop bet, and he raises. wel then we can think TP with a decent kicker, maybe a high PP.if he smooth calls, then we could be drawing slim to none, or he could have too many chips for his own good.turn comes and completes the rainbow. its only allows for a 5 and 7 to make a straight.stil doesnt look like any trouble, and if villain does hold a A or high PP. he will bet this turn. there are no flushes available, and he wont want to give a free card.so we come over the top. he now has the difficult decision, unless he re-raises. then we look screwed. its a crap hand to begin with.. fold preflop

[Bizzle 0]

no ur asking the qrong questions.  You arent paying attention from the flop to the turn.A,8,6 rainbow.   he raise dmin preflop.   the only "world of trouble we wil be in by letting him have a free card onthe turn is runner runner flush, or a straight.  which if its a 4 card straight is easy to fold.or if he played 5,7 or something to that degree, than good for him for getting lucky.But you're asking, if he calls out flop and checks the turn, then i imagine he's on a HUGE hand, or a crap one.  like 8's or w.e.theres really not much we can do but try to examine his play. if he doesnt fold to our flop bet, and he raises.  wel then we can think TP with a decent kicker, maybe a high PP.if he smooth calls, then we could be drawing slim to none, or he could have too many chips for his own good.turn comes and completes the rainbow.  its only allows for a 5 and 7 to make a straight.stil doesnt look like any trouble, and if villain does hold a A or high PP. he will bet this turn.  there are no flushes available, and he wont want to give a free card.so we come over the top.  he now has the difficult decision, unless he re-raises. then we look screwed.  its a crap hand to begin with.. fold preflop

I have enumerated my reasons for not liking the CR play on the turn, but here are a few situations that I absolutely hate.Flop-we lead and he calls.Turn-check check.River-8. We check and he bets. What do we do?River 10. We check and he bets. What do we do?River 5/7. We check and he bets. What do we do?That's only about 1/4 of the deck where giving a free card would be a horrible idea. I think you have have HAVE to continue to bet on the turn-if you get called again, you can be prepared to check-call or check-fold the river depending on the card. Whereas if it goes check-check, you are absolutely flying blind, going into the river out of position and with basically no clue as to what he holds. The two requirements for any check raise are such-you have to have a hand where you are comfortable giving another free card, and you have to be relatively certain that the other player has a strong enough hand to bet when checked to. I am really unsure here as to whether either condition is true.

[PhilBluff 0]

Alright to update I was in the BB with the raiser on the button. So yes I am OOP, but i have seen him since we got down to 3 handed with 9-2 suited, 83 off, just picking up blinds because i am playing tight waiting for an opportunity to knock out the small stack. With the min raise and taking in the information from before I feel I can outplay him after the flop possibly knocking him off one of those hands. Hitting top and bottom pair on the flop against this player is a monster because he loves to steal pots and blinds. I check the flop looking for him to steal, when he checks alarms should have gone off in my head, but i was blinded by what I had. On the flop I thought I had him beat, Mistake 1. On the turn with my intial raise and then the reraise, I could have gotten off cheaper with just a flat call, Mistake 2. Like I said before if i dont put my money in on the turn im 100% sure im in on the river when the 6 hits and completes the boat. In my head I was worried about two hands 88 or A-8. Any other A-x I have him beat on the flop unless he catches. With it three handed and him playing as aggressive as he is (Super System Graduate), I did feel I could outplay him, I just got unfortunate as he had a monster of a flop.I could have done some things differently, If I reraise him preflop he does come over the top consistantly and I could end up putting a lot of money preflop and when the flop comes its it the middle and im toast.Of course we could always say fold, but I didnt preflop and I wasnt going to laydown top/bottom pair.In any situation I would say my money is in the middle.

[Scott3705 0]

 Position.  Once again-I like the call if you have position on them.  If you are OOP, you need to make them make a decision and make them pay to have the position.

Three handed, I honestly don't like to giving the button on my BB the feeling that I'm going to continually fold just because he puts in a bet. 3 handed, you almost never have position against the raiser. On the other hand, A6 is not a had i want to push with here, because first, the blinds aren't big enough that an all in is appropriate, and secondly, he might just have a hand. Most likely any mid PP is going to call here if we did. Also, Why in the world do we think two pair is a weak hand 3 handed? I fully agree with everyone that given the way the hand played, the OP was beat. The flop check tells me that. The only way to have really gotten away from this is to lead the turn. i think C/R this flop is perfect.

[Bizzle 0]

Alright to update I was in the BB with the raiser on the button.   So yes I am OOP, but i have seen him since we got down to 3 handed with 9-2 suited, 83 off, just picking up blinds because i am playing tight waiting for an opportunity to knock out the small stack.  With the min raise and taking in the information from before I feel I can outplay him after the flop possibly knocking him off one of those hands.  Hitting top and bottom pair on the flop against this player is a monster because he loves to steal pots and blinds.  I check the flop looking for him to steal, when he checks alarms should have gone off in my head, but i was blinded by what I had.  On the flop I thought I had him beat, Mistake 1.  On the turn with my intial raise and then the reraise, I could have gotten off cheaper with just a flat call, Mistake 2.    Like I said before if i dont put my money in on the turn im 100% sure im in on the river when the 6 hits and completes the boat.  In my head I was worried about two hands 88 or A-8.  Any other A-x I have him beat on the flop unless he catches.  With it three handed and him playing as aggressive as he is (Super System Graduate), I did feel I could outplay him, I just got unfortunate as he had a monster of a flop.I could have done some things differently,  If I reraise him preflop he does come over the top consistantly and I could end up putting a lot of money preflop  and when the flop comes its it the middle and im toast.Of course we could always say fold, but I didnt preflop and I wasnt going to laydown top/bottom pair.In any situation I would say my money is in the middle.

I somewhat agree of your assessment that the money will go into the middle.I think part of the problem here is that you, being the other two players in the game, have yet to combat this third player. I would right now (no offense) classify him as the bestp layer in the game because he seems to have a strategy that you two have yet to be able to counter. He is obviously a very strong aggressive short-handed player, so you need to play back at him at some point. If this is not a proper hand for you to play back at him, then being OOP and being unwilling to come over the top to find out...I probably fold preflop.That said, once again, his flop check should bring out HUGE HUGE warning bells in your head.The key to making a big laydown is a rock-solid read. I had to lay down a monster yesterday in the DeepStacks and I am still impressed with myself that I did it. After the hand I was accused by the player that really pissed me off during the hand as being someone who was a "kiddie player-check when I have it, bet when I don't." Funniest part was the fact that I am positive I didn't slowplay a single hand the entire tourney-he said he had notes on me, and I went back and checked and he had never monied in a tourney that I had monied in. It created for some good times for me and my railers. Anyways, hand below, enjoy.*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to BillyBizzle [Jh Js]cheekyriver: foldsDiscoBob: foldsyelrambob: foldsed92705: foldsyeahmg: foldsyayo37: foldsAceOrBust: foldsPaulSenior41: raises 200 to 400BillyBizzle: raises 600 to 1000PaulSenior41: raises 1600 to 2600BillyBizzle: calls 1600*** FLOP *** [8d 5h 3d]PaulSenior41: checksBillyBizzle: bets 3000AceOrBust said, "all in paul"AceOrBust said, "billy got nothing"PaulSenior41: raises 4780 to 7780 and is all-in

[RoyalLance 0]

*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to BillyBizzle [Jh Js]cheekyriver: foldsDiscoBob: foldsyelrambob: foldsed92705: foldsyeahmg: foldsyayo37: foldsAceOrBust: foldsPaulSenior41: raises 200 to 400BillyBizzle: raises 600 to 1000PaulSenior41: raises 1600 to 2600BillyBizzle: calls 1600*** FLOP *** [8d 5h 3d]PaulSenior41: checksBillyBizzle: bets 3000AceOrBust said, "all in paul"AceOrBust said, "billy got nothing"PaulSenior41: raises 4780 to 7780 and is all-in

Funny as Hell.