Jump to content

was this dumb?


Recommended Posts

So I am at the final table of a B&M NLH Tournament. Nothing major...only 52 entries....there are 8 of us left in the game.Blinds are at 800/1600 with 100 anteI am in the BB with about $13,000 left (the 2nd biggest stack)...and I have K :D Q :club: Everyone folds to the SB which has about $15,000 in chips..and is the chip leader.SB says, "I raise." grabs a random stack of $500 chips and flops it on the table. Before the dealer can stack up what he threw out to count it (turns out he raised $4500)....I say "All In". He thinks about it for a while and then calls....and flips over A :D 4 :D His ace holds up and I go home in 8th place.So....was I just dumb to put my tournament life on KQ off.....or considering the way he raised preflop, he was the SB....and I had a half decent starting hand....did I do all I could do and just ran into a wall?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont think its dumb. Quite a loose call by him, IMO, esp. if you are 2nd in chips. A-4, even suited, isnt a hand you would call in that situation. You made the right play. Just tough luck.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Meh - the reason I don't like the play is because he was the chip leader. No sense tangling with the onlyguy that can really hurt you. (unless with AA, KK, etc)Depends a lot on payout structure, etc, but ideallyI try and avoid big stack confrontations late in MTT's.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like your all in move here. Inless you positive hes just trying to push you off your BB. Also you dident say what kind of a player he is, if he raises alot of hands and likes to push people off there hands than mabey the allin move isent so bad. If anything I think you should of just called and tried to hit something on the flop. I probably would of just let this hand go, You were still 2nd in chips. I think if there were less players left like if it were down to 4 or 5 then an allin with KQ would of been a decent move.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Depends a lot on payout structure, etc, but ideallyI try and avoid big stack confrontations late in MTT's.
I agree with this. I probably would've called the bet to see the flop. That way if you miss the flop, you can get away from it without it doing too much damage.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a big mistake was seeing how much he raised preflop, as when someone commits almost 1/3 or their stack, it may be tought to get away from it, especially for a poor player. I may have called the bet and pushed on the flop...but it all depends the situation and history of the tournament.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I gotta agree with most here. You are 2nd in chips, you have a playable hand, see what the raise is at least before going all in. The only player at the table you don't want to dance with is the chip leader with that hand.JMO

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got to say I'm surprised that so many feel that this is a dumb move.OP has slightly more than 8BB left so he's got to move soon. There is no information about the other players' stacks or the pay out structure, which is essential in this position. Without that information, I'd say that this is an ok move.SB's raise could definitely be a steal. It's a big portion of his stack so it might be hard to get him to fold, but KQ is still a strong hand and the possibilty to get a decent stack at this point should be valuable. I would be very happy if villain folded and not very upset if I got called.Disregarding the above mentioned, lacking, information: If SB has been active and stealing, I like this move. At this point I don't care that we're 2nd in chips and up against the chip leader. There is no room to move around and we have to get some chips to get a shot at 1st place.Ultimately, I think it comes down to the texture of the game, other stacks and pay out structure. If the table is very tight, it may be better to fold this and try to get some chips by stealing instead. Or it may be better to wait for smaller stacks to bust bacause of structure reasons. But we don't know that from OP's post.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I've got to say I'm surprised that so many feel that this is a dumb move.OP has slightly more than 8BB left so he's got to move soon. There is no information about the other players' stacks or the pay out structure, which is essential in this position. Without that information, I'd say that this is an ok move.SB's raise could definitely be a steal. It's a big portion of his stack so it might be hard to get him to fold, but KQ is still a strong hand and the possibilty to get a decent stack at this point should be valuable. I would be very happy if villain folded and not very upset if I got called.Disregarding the above mentioned, lacking, information: If SB has been active and stealing, I like this move. At this point I don't care that we're 2nd in chips and up against the chip leader. There is no room to move around and we have to get some chips to get a shot at 1st place.Ultimately, I think it comes down to the texture of the game, other stacks and pay out structure. If the table is very tight, it may be better to fold this and try to get some chips by stealing instead. Or it may be better to wait for smaller stacks to bust bacause of structure reasons. But we don't know that from OP's post.
Yea, i'm suprised nobody brought this up. yes he's the chip leader, but how much can he honestly be the chip leader by with the blinds like this. The chip leader only has less than 10BB's. Maybe it's a steal and we can make him fold, most likely he's going to call though with anything reasonable. We have to race with the blinds like this no?
Link to post
Share on other sites
I've got to say I'm surprised that so many feel that this is a dumb move.OP has slightly more than 8BB left so he's got to move soon. There is no information about the other players' stacks or the pay out structure, which is essential in this position. Without that information, I'd say that this is an ok move.
As far as pay out structure....originally it was going to be only top 6 get in the money....but then the table elected to do a $35 save so all 10 at the final table got their buy in back. I think it was something like:10-7 - $356 - $505 - $754 - $1503 - $2502 - $4001 - $625As far as chip counts when the hand in question came about....there were 8 remaining.Chip Leader had about $15,000I had about $13,0003rd - 5th had about $10,0006th - 8th had $5000 or lessAs far as the chip leaders play....he was fairly solid....although he did use his position to take the blinds.....he would at least have something to work with....either suited connectors or at least Kx. One of his tells was that he would usually just flip the chips out in the pot when he was on drawing hole cards....that's why I immediately called all in to represent a high pocket pair....but obviously he didn't buy it.....or at least thought his A was going to suck me out.Due to the blind structure....going up every 20 minutes....the tournament did not last more than two rounds past my bust.
Link to post
Share on other sites
 Due to the blind structure....going up every 20 minutes....the tournament did not last more than two rounds past my bust.
Yeah, I don't know if you had time to get blinded and anted down by another round and wait to find a better spot. Something could be said to waiting and trying to steal the blind when u get the chance, but with the stacks this low, some one might be pot committed to call blind.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I like this move now. I would aim for at least top 3 if I was in that spot and we really need to double up to get a somewhat comfortable stack.Even though SB is chip leader, he should be getting desperate as well, so his range here is quite large.As for folding here and go for steals, I think it's hard to say without being there playing, but it should be quite hard as everyone is short stacked and getting desperate (and as Scott said, may have to call blind).In short, I'd move in here with KQ.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not "dumb", it's bad.What is bad about this play?I had a hand very similar to it and I wallowed in it for a day or so.Despite what you are thinking when you decide that if you're going to move in you've got to do it fast, he's not going to fold.He's not going to fold.When you moved in, you wanted to represent a hand against which SB would be scared to call, hence your fast move. I can't say this enough: he's not going to fold.You're not in terrible shape racing KQ against A4 and if you are out classed by a majority of the field, you probably want to run this race, but if you think you can hold your own against the rest of the table, this is an easy fold.

Link to post
Share on other sites
You're not in terrible shape racing KQ against A4 and if you are out classed by a majority of the field, you probably want to run this race, but if you think you can hold your own against the rest of the table, this is an easy fold.
I honestly don't see OP outclasses opponents here. Most people here who pick up a hand, correct move will be all in given stack sizes. proved by the fact the tourney only lasted two more rounds. No post flop play going on here. We're just looking to pick up a hand and go for it.
Link to post
Share on other sites
You're not in terrible shape racing KQ against A4 and if you are out classed by a majority of the field, you probably want to run this race, but if you think you can hold your own against the rest of the table, this is an easy fold.
I honestly don't see how OP could outplay opponents here. For Most people here who pick up a hand, the correct move will be all in given stack sizes. proved by the fact the tourney only lasted two more rounds. No post flop play going on here. We're just looking to pick up a hand and go for it.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not necessarily dumb, but I'm not sure I do it.With position, I probably call the extra 2900 and see the flop, and act accordingly...if he bets, I probably fold...if he checks, I may push.WIth the blinds this high in relation to stacks this tournament has turned into "bingo", so QK is a decent hand to dance with...I just don't know if I push after a raise against the chip leader here.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Even though SB is chip leader, he should be getting desperate as well, so his range here is quite large.As for folding here and go for steals, I think it's hard to say without being there playing, but it should be quite hard as everyone is short stacked and getting desperate (and as Scott said, may have to call blind).In short, I'd move in here with KQ.
This is the most ridiculous analogy I've seen. It's a horrible play and it lost him money as it should have *that* time. Period.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Even though SB is chip leader, he should be getting desperate as well, so his range here is quite large.As for folding here and go for steals, I think it's hard to say without being there playing, but it should be quite hard as everyone is short stacked and getting desperate (and as Scott said, may have to call blind).In short, I'd move in here with KQ.
This is the most ridiculous analogy I've seen. It's a horrible play and it lost him money as it should have *that* time. Period.
According to Webster's.....Main Entry: anal·o·gy Pronunciation: &-'na-l&-jEFunction: nounInflected Form(s): plural -gies1 : inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will prob. agree in others2 a : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY b : comparison based on such resemblance3 : correspondence between the members of pairs or sets of linguistic forms that serves as a basis for the creation of another form4 : correspondence in function between anatomical parts of different structure and origin -- compare HOMOLOGYsynonym see LIKENESS Newb should learn the language he speaks before he delivers the flame.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Even though SB is chip leader, he should be getting desperate as well, so his range here is quite large.As for folding here and go for steals, I think it's hard to say without being there playing, but it should be quite hard as everyone is short stacked and getting desperate (and as Scott said, may have to call blind).In short, I'd move in here with KQ.
This is the most ridiculous analogy I've seen. It's a horrible play and it lost him money as it should have *that* time. Period.
According to Webster's.....Main Entry: anal·o·gy Pronunciation: &-'na-l&-jEFunction: nounInflected Form(s): plural -gies1 : inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will prob. agree in others2 a : resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : SIMILARITY b : comparison based on such resemblance3 : correspondence between the members of pairs or sets of linguistic forms that serves as a basis for the creation of another form4 : correspondence in function between anatomical parts of different structure and origin -- compare HOMOLOGYsynonym see LIKENESS Newb should learn the language he speaks before he delivers the flame.
not necessarily. snowman was saying that sb's chip situation was analogous to the rest of the table's chip situations which is clearly not the case. but more importantly...1. a "newb" should never call another new poster a "newb"2. the word "newb" should never be used, useless you're making fun of an individual who uses the word3. a flame should NEVER, even under the most extreme circumstances, use an entry from webster's dictionary
Link to post
Share on other sites
Even though SB is chip leader, he should be getting desperate as well, so his range here is quite large.As for folding here and go for steals, I think it's hard to say without being there playing, but it should be quite hard as everyone is short stacked and getting desperate (and as Scott said, may have to call blind).In short, I'd move in here with KQ.
This is the most ridiculous analogy I've seen. It's a horrible play and it lost him money as it should have *that* time. Period.
Would you care to say *why* it's a horrible play?To DrZebra: I think it's funny that you say this is a bad play, but like the play in your other thread, as I advocate this play from a tournament equity standpoint.Suggestion to OP: Don't post results in the future, it may affect the answers you get.
Link to post
Share on other sites

We can't possibly know whether the play was good or not without knowing the prize structure of the tournament. If it was winner take all it was obviously a good play. If it was a satellite where the top 7 players get the same prize it was obviously a bad play.

Link to post
Share on other sites

posting blind.there is no reason to tangle with the chip leader at this point. this is vaguely reminiscent of an early example in TP4AP where you are down to 4 handed, you are in second, there is a massive chipleader and 2 other short stacks. You play a pot with the chipleader and go broke, allowing the two short stacks to move up the pay ladder. This is pretty terrible. Your situation isn't that close because the blinds are so high relative to chip stacks, but there are other considerations too.The chipleader has committed himself to the pot; he put in 1/3 of his stack. You have very little fold equity in coming over the top, and your hand doesn't have all that much show down value. Are you hoping he has KJ? If this is winner take all, I think your play is fine, but if there is a tiered payout structure, I don't like the play at all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...