riddle me this, is folding here too weak/tight?

[akishore 0]

3/6 ringutg limps, mp raises, i three-bet otb with KK, blinds fold, utg folds, mp caps, i call.mp is unknown.(10 sb) AT6rmp bets, i call w/ intent to re-evaluate on the turn.(6 bb) Qmp bets, i fold.the only logical thing i can beat now is JJ.sorry, i might be braindead and this might be obvious.aseem

[screech 0]

Lousy flop. I would have raise/folded. I don't mind calling if you think that will deter KK/JJ from leading the turn.The turn is actually pretty close, but I think it's a fold.

[akishore 0]

screech, i hate raise/folding this flop. in most games i play in, i get three-bet by a worse hand a lot or c/r by a better hand on the turn a lot.aseem

[Abbaddabba 0]

So if the turn is a blank, do you call down?

[akishore 0]

So if the turn is a blank, do you call down?

maybe.see, i think a big weakness of mine is that i really have no plans in these situations. i just go mostly by feel/mood/etc. i think i subconsciously take things like "how long they take to bet" into account.i don't know if this is a good thing (i mix up my game unpredictably, etc.) or a bad thing (i am more prone to tilt, etc.).aseem

[screech 0]

screech, i hate raise/folding this flop. in most games i play in, i get three-bet by a worse hand a lot or c/r by a better hand on the turn a lot.aseem

Someone with QQ/JJ would have the balls to 3-bet you on this flop?Doesn't that mean that they will almost always follow the turn up with a bet? In this case, I think you made a bad fold on the turn.

[akishore 0]

yes, the more i think about it, the worse i'm finding my turn fold to be. or rather, maybe it's just that i'm finding it to be inconsistent with my flop line.i think that on the turn, if i am behind i have near 5 outs, and combined with the chance that i am ahead, i might have enough to call down.but i really am not sure.aseem

[screech 0]

yes, the more i think about it, the worse i'm finding my turn fold to be. or rather, maybe it's just that i'm finding it to be inconsistent with my flop line.i think that on the turn, if i am behind i have near 5 outs, and combined with the chance that i am ahead, i might have enough to call down.but i really am not sure.aseem

That's the problem with aggressive opponents. They put you too the test. This board absolutely sucks for your hand. You're probably beat. I think this is a situation where you should either get out early, or go all the way. Nothing's worse than making it half way and stopping.It depends on your opponents obviously. Against some, a flop 3-bet would mean you're beat, and you can safely fold. Against others, a flop 3-bet just means you're putting in more money with what's probably a second best hand. Unfortunately, it's best just often enough that makes calling down profitable. On a related note, I think I'm going to start occasionally 3-betting the flops in these situations against tough opponents.

[JaysonWeber 0]

That's the problem with aggressive opponents. They put you too the test. This board absolutely sucks for your hand. You're probably beat. I think this is a situation where you should either get out early, or go all the way. Nothing's worse than making it half way and stopping.It depends on your opponents obviously. Against some, a flop 3-bet would mean you're beat, and you can safely fold. Against others, a flop 3-bet just means you're putting in more money with what's probably a second best hand. Unfortunately, it's best just often enough that makes calling down profitable. On a related note, I think I'm going to start occasionally 3-betting the flops in these situations against tough opponents.

All good points, Calling this down sucks... But actually... That turn is even worse. If I was planning on calling down in hopes that he was gonna bet out his QQ or JJ I would have done what you did on the flop.I don't mind folding the turn after that Q comes up though, he capped pre-flop... Even a maniac doesn't do that with many hands other than JJ-AA or maybe AQs+.Gotta fold on the turn in this spot... Kings didn't work out. Against known opponents it's much easier to decide on the flop... but he is an unkown so you gotta go with metagame thoughts on this one.

[screech 0]

If I was planning on calling down in hopes that he was gonna bet out his QQ or JJ I would have done what you did on the flop. I don't mind folding the turn after that Q comes up though, he capped pre-flop... Even a maniac doesn't do that with many hands other than JJ-AA or maybe AQs+. Gotta fold on the turn in this spot

Even if we assign him this hand range, and don't raise the flop because there is a chance he plays QQ/JJ this way, we should still call the turn.Let's say he plays every combo in this range this way all the time, except for JJ and KK. Let's assume he will bet JJ on the flop and turn 1/6 of the time, and bet KK on the flop, and turn, then check the river 1/10 of the time. These are reasonable assumptions since we're not raising the flop because our opponent may 3-bet hands we beat.So our adjusted hand combos on the turn are:AA (3) - 4 outsKK (1/10) - 22 outsQQ (3) - 6 outsJJ (1) - 42 outsAK (6) - 3 outsAQs (2) - 6 outsGiving us an average of 6.9 outs. So we should call against an opponent who would overplay his non-ace pp's.

[Sysvr4 0]

I think I'd raise/fold the flop hoping he would call and check to me on the turn. If he bets out again on the turn I fold UI. Otherwise, I check behind and call one BB on the river.Someone tell me the problem with that, cuz there prolly is one.Jeff

[screech 0]

I think I'd raise/fold the flop hoping he would call and check to me on the turn.  If he bets out again on the turn I fold UI.  Otherwise, I check behind and call one BB on the river.Someone tell me the problem with that, cuz there prolly is one.Jeff

I see no problems.