1/2 no limit

[desaparecidos 0]

Ok so a few hours ago I'm playing at a 1/2 no limit table at Foxwoods.I'm a really tight player and I usually always go in with the best hand. In six hours I played eight hands, and I'm getting tons of action because these kids have no idea what table image is. I had pots of 120$ and 80$ showndown with my aces, and these kids still call me down when I do get involved.But the problem is, when I do go into a hand with say aces or kings, I'll get five callers. No matter how much I bet. 90% of the time I get outdrawn. I'm very disciplined, and I can lay down aces at any time. But it's just not profitable unless I flop something nasty.The last hand I played I had ace king on the button and decided to mix things up and just call the raise of 15$The flop comes 8h kc 9s giving me kings with an ace kicker. I'm playing extremely loose players so I decide to make a huge move. First to act bets 30$ and the next guy cold calls, and I raise 100$ I know I have them both beat. I put the first guy on maybe king queen, jack king or 10 jack for a straight draw. And the second guy on at the most a pocket pair. So the first guy grimaces and groans about the raise. So I knew he was on the draw. The thing is, if he called he would only have 25$ left and he makes the call.Second guy calls and the turn comes a Qd. I knew the first position hit his straight. He pushes his last 25$ the other guy calls and obviously I call. The turn is a complete blank and the other guy checks and I check also out of frustration.The all in guy flips over jack ten off suit, and the other guy turns over pocket jacks. I am just so sick of people not laying hands down against tight players. Why would you want to draw against someone that almost always has the nuts? Even if you won a big pot against him, in the long run you will lose way more.Right now I don't have the bankroll to move up limits, so what should I do about playing six way pots? Even if I come in with a strong raise they all call. Any suggestions?

[TheIceman05 0]

Bet the river/raise the turn to get some value out of the other player in the hand.Ole-boy actually didn't play TOO horrible. If he knew that the second player was coming along, he was getting the right price. Even if it was HU, check the maths.50 bucks (at least) in the pot preflop30 + 30 + 100 = 160 on the flopWhen the guy called 100, he was getting 2.1-1, virtually all-in. If he were all in, he'd need pretty much those exact odds to call. If he thinks there's a decent chance the guy behind calls 100 more, it's an easy EASY call.First, you should have put that extra 25, just to dicourage him a touch more.Second, stop complaining that people are calling you in big pots when they're behind. Isn't that what you want?Ice

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

either raise more preflop or abandon such remarkably tight standards. This is a 1/2 game, recall. Heck, if you were playing that tight at my table I'd probably call you each time out of spite. I'm not sure what you'd prefer here, anyway. Raise an inordinate amount preflop, and win $3 + any limpers? $3 every 45 minutes? Man, 8 hands in 6 hours. Yuck.

[desaparecidos 0]

Yea I agree with you. I'm not saying it was a bad beat. But you should have seen his face. He did NOT want to call, but did anyways. And yes of course I want action, but it usually comes with six other players. In one hand I was in late position with ace king suited and folded it because of a raise, reraise, reraise, call, call, call.Some guy with 10 8 off suit flopped two 8's and rivered another. And I'm not saying ace king is that powerful, especially against full table callers. But it sucks when you can't even play it.These kids are crazy because when they bust out they reach in their pockets and throw out another 100$ for a rebuy. Perfect example of treating your bankroll like a tournament buy in.In higher limits are there the same amount of callers and crazy people? Lol

[desaparecidos 0]

either raise more preflop or abandon such remarkably tight standards. This is a 1/2 game, recall. Heck, if you were playing that tight at my table I'd probably call you each time out of spite. I'm not sure what you'd prefer here, anyway. Raise an inordinate amount preflop, and win $3 + any limpers? $3 every 45 minutes? Man, 8 hands in 6 hours. Yuck.

Yea but the thing is, it doesn't matter how much I raised. They always called. You could not get them off the pot. Haha it's black friday, everyone and their mother was at Foxwoods. It took me two and a half hours to get a seat. I would have went to a different table if I wouldn't have had to wait another four hours.You have no idea the hands I was getting though. I was getting frost bite from the cold cards I was getting. Plus the eight hands I did play got me pots of 120$ 80$ 76$ 55$ 40$ and 25$ for a grand total of 396$396$-140$(the big pot I lost)=256$256$-blinds and whatever=230$To some people 230$ in six hours isn't very good, but I'm a very patient poker player and I was happy to take it home. And 230$ in six hours is better than 12$ an hour roofing and doing construction ;]

[TeeSludge 0]

In higher limits are there the same amount of callers and crazy people? Lol

Yes. It is quite insane. At least in my regular games at the Trop. When I play 5/10 my standard raise is usually to about 50 and there are still anywhere between 5-8 players in the pot. Same goes for the 2/5 game. The great thing about this is you only have to win one monster pot a night to post a big win. However, continuation bets become essentially worthless. The other good thing is that most of the players play very poorly post flop and are generally easy to read. They will call very big bets drawing very slim and will raise when they have a better hand then you. I understand it is frustrating to be called in so many spots when you are considered a "tight" player but you should be thankful you still get called at all. If you were playing with "good" players you would have to loosen up to get action, whereas now you can not play a hand for hours and still get paid off.

[Dynon07 0]

either raise more preflop or abandon such remarkably tight standards. This is a 1/2 game, recall. Heck, if you were playing that tight at my table I'd probably call you each time out of spite. I'm not sure what you'd prefer here, anyway. Raise an inordinate amount preflop, and win $3 + any limpers? $3 every 45 minutes? Man, 8 hands in 6 hours. Yuck.

Yea but the thing is, it doesn't matter how much I raised. They always called. You could not get them off the pot. Haha it's black friday, everyone and their mother was at Foxwoods. It took me two and a half hours to get a seat. I would have went to a different table if I wouldn't have had to wait another four hours.You have no idea the hands I was getting though. I was getting frost bite from the cold cards I was getting. Plus the eight hands I did play got me pots of 120$ 80$ 76$ 55$ 40$ and 25$ for a grand total of 396$396$-140$(the big pot I lost)=256$256$-blinds and whatever=230$To some people 230$ in six hours isn't very good, but I'm a very patient poker player and I was happy to take it home. And 230$ in six hours is better than 12$ an hour roofing and doing construction ;]

Des its amazing what people will do against people with perfect table image that always go in the best hand. The only thing you do here is keep your head held high and get back in their fighthing. If really sux when you are outdrawn by a bunch of heros but occasionally when you make statement plays like that, bad things can happen. The only way to avoid stuff like is play a little weaker in giant pots cause people's judgment seems to get very clouded. I wouldn't recommend this though , keep firing huge and eventually they will miss. Odds will give you a hug eventually. I am sure as a good player you know this, just try not to let it knock you down, JJ was a fool, i mean what a moron, that guy will pay you off 9 times outta 10. Just be proud that you made a good read your AK was good and got almost everyone all in when you hand the best hand.

[petersun 0]

Plus the eight hands I did play got me pots of 120$ 80$ 76$ 55$ 40$ and 25$ for a grand total of 396$396$-140$(the big pot I lost)=256$256$-blinds and whatever=230$To some people 230$ in six hours isn't very good, but I'm a very patient poker player and I was happy to take it home. And 230$ in six hours is better than 12$ an hour roofing and doing construction ;]

I think you've answered your own question in some sense. Your tight play has caused you a nice profit of almost 19BB an hour even with the beat. Your 6 wins to 1 loss is about the right ratio statistically.You are in the perfect situation where they'll call you when you're 4 to 1 fav. That's all you can do. They will draw out, and there are nights that they might do that 4 out of 7, but over the long run you'll be a winning player at this level at wild tables.As you move up higher (into levels with better players), your super tight strategy won't work at all. Most people will just simply let you take down very small pots with your very big hands.I'd bet harder on the flop, turn and river. You know they'll pay you off, but you gotta give the drawing hand every chance to lay it down as well. Ideally, you want to push the draw guy off and keep the fish. But if they both leave, the worst thing is that you only win $90. There is a pschological difference for that draw guy. Having $25 left, is still a slight encouragement for wild players to rationalize that they should call. A greater than pot sized bet of $130-$150 on the flop makes sense at this table. You gotta put draw guy all in on the flop and on the turn and river, you gotta get value from the fish.Ironically, in this hand, if you had raise before the flop, the JJ guy might reraise you, and then at that point you go all in and he would probably call. Hindsight being 20/20, raising before the flop was the best move to trim down the field.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

Haven't read replies.One of the things I love about poker is you can tell a lot about the way a person thinks by the way he talks or writes.From the way you described your hand I think you have some fundamental misconceptions about no limit poker.It's good that you've made observations about your own play and the rest of the table's play. But in explaining the hand, you've left out a lot of key details that greatly affect proper analysis of your play.Most importantly, you didn't give ANY details about the amount of money in the pot on each street, or exactly how many players are in the hand. You're focused on how tight you play, and how loose your opponents play.First of all, loose isn't necessarily bad in no limit. I make a great effort to look looser than I am, and I make a lot of money waiting for weak/tight players to overplay strong preflop hands against me.There's a lot more to go after that.Post more hands, include more details like pot size on each street, everyone's position, and the exact number of people in each hand. Then you can get good analysis and start thinking in more profitable ways.

[pokerplayer101 0]

At the casino I play at the play is just like you describe. You just have to understand when people play at the casino a lot of them are not playing the same game you are. They're there to get lucky and they'll gamble like they would on any other game in there. You sound like you know what you're doing and you'll come out ahead if you keep playing the same game.

[desaparecidos 0]

In higher limits are there the same amount of callers and crazy people? Lol

Yes. It is quite insane. At least in my regular games at the Trop. When I play 5/10 my standard raise is usually to about 50 and there are still anywhere between 5-8 players in the pot. Same goes for the 2/5 game. The great thing about this is you only have to win one monster pot a night to post a big win. However, continuation bets become essentially worthless. The other good thing is that most of the players play very poorly post flop and are generally easy to read. They will call very big bets drawing very slim and will raise when they have a better hand then you. I understand it is frustrating to be called in so many spots when you are considered a "tight" player but you should be thankful you still get called at all. If you were playing with "good" players you would have to loosen up to get action, whereas now you can not play a hand for hours and still get paid off.

Yes exactly, all I want is one huge pot an hour. And if I did win that last pot I would have taken in 370$ I believe. And I was either going to sit back and wait for the right spot to do it again, or leave.I think it's just frustrating when you make someone do exactly what you want them to do, but the cards spit in your face.You must get huge pots in your 5/10 game. How do you avoid the swings of making your hand, and having someone else draw out on you?

[desaparecidos 0]

either raise more preflop or abandon such remarkably tight standards. This is a 1/2 game, recall.  Heck, if you were playing that tight at my table I'd probably call you each time out of spite.  I'm not sure what you'd prefer here, anyway.  Raise an inordinate amount preflop, and win $3 + any limpers? $3 every 45 minutes?  Man, 8 hands in 6 hours. Yuck.

Yea but the thing is, it doesn't matter how much I raised. They always called. You could not get them off the pot. Haha it's black friday, everyone and their mother was at Foxwoods. It took me two and a half hours to get a seat. I would have went to a different table if I wouldn't have had to wait another four hours.You have no idea the hands I was getting though. I was getting frost bite from the cold cards I was getting. Plus the eight hands I did play got me pots of 120$ 80$ 76$ 55$ 40$ and 25$ for a grand total of 396$396$-140$(the big pot I lost)=256$256$-blinds and whatever=230$To some people 230$ in six hours isn't very good, but I'm a very patient poker player and I was happy to take it home. And 230$ in six hours is better than 12$ an hour roofing and doing construction ;]

Des its amazing what people will do against people with perfect table image that always go in the best hand. The only thing you do here is keep your head held high and get back in their fighthing. If really sux when you are outdrawn by a bunch of heros but occasionally when you make statement plays like that, bad things can happen. The only way to avoid stuff like is play a little weaker in giant pots cause people's judgment seems to get very clouded. I wouldn't recommend this though , keep firing huge and eventually they will miss. Odds will give you a hug eventually. I am sure as a good player you know this, just try not to let it knock you down, JJ was a fool, i mean what a moron, that guy will pay you off 9 times outta 10. Just be proud that you made a good read your AK was good and got almost everyone all in when you hand the best hand.

I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from lol. Most people will complain how tight I am, but I'm there to make money. I'm forced two blinds, and I don't need to play every hand to make money. If I have aces and I bet strong and get 9 callers and raises I'm seriously thinking about dumping the hand. It is so easy for one person to outdraw on you. And that's the thing, everyone tries to. One guy rebought into the game eight times while I was at the table. That's 800$ he will never see again. Because he was playing loose and hoping to outdraw. I'd rather go in with the best then rely on luck. And if I did loosen up, there would be a lot more swings. I'd have a winning session one time, and two losing sessions the next. And so on. I think it's smarter to go for the win each time. Even if they aren't giant wins, I'm still increasing my bankroll by the hundreds and learning as much as I can. I got so many reads and tells off these people.

[desaparecidos 0]

Plus the eight hands I did play got me pots of 120$ 80$ 76$ 55$ 40$ and 25$ for a grand total of 396$396$-140$(the big pot I lost)=256$256$-blinds and whatever=230$To some people 230$ in six hours isn't very good, but I'm a very patient poker player and I was happy to take it home. And 230$ in six hours is better than 12$ an hour roofing and doing construction ;]

I think you've answered your own question in some sense. Your tight play has caused you a nice profit of almost 19BB an hour even with the beat. Your 6 wins to 1 loss is about the right ratio statistically.You are in the perfect situation where they'll call you when you're 4 to 1 fav. That's all you can do. They will draw out, and there are nights that they might do that 4 out of 7, but over the long run you'll be a winning player at this level at wild tables.As you move up higher (into levels with better players), your super tight strategy won't work at all. Most people will just simply let you take down very small pots with your very big hands.I'd bet harder on the flop, turn and river. You know they'll pay you off, but you gotta give the drawing hand every chance to lay it down as well. Ideally, you want to push the draw guy off and keep the fish. But if they both leave, the worst thing is that you only win $90. There is a pschological difference for that draw guy. Having $25 left, is still a slight encouragement for wild players to rationalize that they should call. A greater than pot sized bet of $130-$150 on the flop makes sense at this table. You gotta put draw guy all in on the flop and on the turn and river, you gotta get value from the fish.Ironically, in this hand, if you had raise before the flop, the JJ guy might reraise you, and then at that point you go all in and he would probably call. Hindsight being 20/20, raising before the flop was the best move to trim down the field.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you for your input. And that's what I'm looking for, the long run. I know if I play as tight as I am, I can maximize my profits and at the same time minimize my losses. Obviously I could go out there and play every hand and get lucky with a rush of cards, but in the long run I will lose and lose and lose. I never want to be one of those players rebuying and rebuying hoping to get lucky.

[desaparecidos 0]

Haven't read replies.One of the things I love about poker is you can tell a lot about the way a person thinks by the way he talks or writes.From the way you described your hand I think you have some fundamental misconceptions about no limit poker.It's good that you've made observations about your own play and the rest of the table's play.  But in explaining the hand, you've left out a lot of key details that greatly affect proper analysis of your play.Most importantly, you didn't give ANY details about the amount of money in the pot on each street, or exactly how many players are in the hand.  You're focused on how tight you play, and how loose your opponents play.First of all, loose isn't necessarily bad in no limit.  I make a great effort to look looser than I am, and I make a lot of money waiting for weak/tight players to overplay strong preflop hands against me.There's a lot more to go after that.Post more hands, include more details like pot size on each street, everyone's position, and the exact number of people in each hand.  Then you can get good analysis and start thinking in more profitable ways.

I definitely agree with you. I have SO MUCH to learn. But I'm willing and wanting to. I read books, discuss strategy through forums and friends, obviously play as much as I can, and think. I'm always thinking.I'm sorry I left out some key elements, sometimes I get ahead of myself when I write.

[desaparecidos 0]

At the casino I play at the play is just like you describe. You just have to understand when people play at the casino a lot of them are not playing the same game you are. They're there to get lucky and they'll gamble like they would on any other game in there. You sound like you know what you're doing and you'll come out ahead if you keep playing the same game.

Thank you very much. That's all I want to know, that if I keep playing the same way, in the long run I'll come out ahead. It still is tough though lol. But if I went to the 1/2 table every day and played for six hours and took home atleast 200$ each time, I'd be making a lot of money. That would be 1400$ a week. And then +- days I lost and days I brought home a lot more than 200$. So even 1000$ a week on average would be awesome to me. I know that's a lot of hours, but it's doing something I love. It doesn't even feel like work to me. Plus, I used to make 400$ a week working my ass off 12 hours a day doing roofing and what not. That sucked by the way lol.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I definitely agree with you. I have SO MUCH to learn. But I'm willing and wanting to. I read books, discuss strategy through forums and friends, obviously play as much as I can, and think. I'm always thinking. I'm sorry I left out some key elements, sometimes I get ahead of myself when I write.

If you want to learn, keep posting hands. Reply in the no limit section. If you're unsure, ask a question.Just try to remember how many people are in the hand preflop, the size of the pot (most importantly), and stack sizes.

At the casino I play at the play is just like you describe. You just have to understand when people play at the casino a lot of them are not playing the same game you are. They're there to get lucky and they'll gamble like they would on any other game in there.

Yes, that's all true.But you have to unquestionably accept three things before you start winning real money the right way:a) Luck isn't real. There is no such thing as luck. There is only variance, which falls within predictable mathematical ranges.b) You want to play against bad players. You make the most money exploiting the mistakes of others, and bad players necessarily make more mistakes.c) Cash-game poker is an infinitely long-term game. Success comes from making the most correct decisions as frequently as possible. "Short-term" is a lot longer than you think, and "long-term" is until the day you die.Sorry to be so rhetorical and melodramatic, but it's the easiest way to directly explain this.

[DrawingDeadInDM 0]

If you only play 8 hands in 6 hours you're too tight and not exploiting your table image.I consider myself a tight player, and I'll make raises with hands like, J10s, 87s, etc.. on the button in a limped pot at the 1/2 table.Just a little something to chew on.If you played 8 hands in six hours at my table, I'd A) Fold to most of your bets without a premimum holding, or B) call with a marginal preflop holding, knowing quite specifically what kind of hand range you had.You pigeon hole yourself and only playing Aces and Kings will only get you so far.TAG is the way to go, but, you *have* to mix it up at some point, especially if you're talking about moving up in limits.

[petersun 0]

a) Luck isn't real. There is no such thing as luck. There is only variance, which falls within predictable mathematical ranges.B) You want to play against bad players. You make the most money exploiting the mistakes of others, and bad players necessarily make more mistakes.c) Cash-game poker is an infinitely long-term game. Success comes from making the most correct decisions as frequently as possible. "Short-term" is a lot longer than you think, and "long-term" is until the day you die.Sorry to be so rhetorical and melodramatic, but it's the easiest way to directly explain this.

In other words, in any given year, you'll find yourself with several weeks of significant losses (in your example -$1000 weeks), and in your lifetime you may experience one or more losing years. That's variance in the real world.If you want to really play this game for a living, you need to learn to leverage your image and mix up your game.

[TheIceman05 0]

In other words, in any given year, you'll find yourself with several weeks of significant losses (in your example -$1000 weeks), and in your lifetime you may experience one or more losing years. That's variance in the real world.

Don't get carried away. If you're playing winning poker and play a significant amount, you should never have a losing year. If you have more than one, you're probably a losing/barely break-even playerIce

[petersun 0]

Don't get carried away. If you're playing winning poker and play a significant amount, you should never have a losing year. If you have more than one, you're probably a losing/barely break-even playerIce

Naturally, since I'm not a pro, I don't have any experience on the yearly level. However, every pro biography I've read talks about a life period (nearly a year or more than a year) where they were losing. In fact, in his inteview after his WPT win last year, Doyle Brunson said that he was about to have his first losing year if he didn't win that tournament. Certainly, the losing year can be a result of many reasons (drugs, family troubles, flaws in the game, opponents adapting, etc.), but what I am talking about is being cold decked for an extended period. That will happen. In fact, in recent months, I think Daniel N. is experiencing that. His WSOP seemed like a month of good play but bad cards.I do agree that having more than one losing year might be unusual if you are a solid player.