interesting turn decision?

[screech 0]

Party poker 5/10 full.Tight UTG raisesI 3-bet AK OTB and get it HUFlop(7.4SB): AQ4r He bets, I raise, he callsTurn(5.5BB): J completing the rainbowHe checks, I...

[Steppin Razor 0]

What is r? ... and you bet.

[KDawgCometh 2]

What is r? ... and you bet.

r is rainbowscreech, I'm betting this all day long, things only get interesting if we get CRed(is this 6 max or full)

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes i'm betting here too. But what are you doing here if raised? I think you have to call...input anyone??

[screech 0]

What is r? ... and you bet.

r is rainbowscreech, I'm betting this all day long, things only get interesting if we get CRed(is this 6 max or full)

This is 5/10 full. Does that change your play?

[JaysonWeber 0]

Tight UTG Raised Pre-Flop right?So our range for him? Given a TA-A Image... I'd say something likeAK-ATs - AJo, AA-88, KQsWhat hands is he calling with here? What hands is he check/raising?What hands is he folding? Good Check behind here screech?p.s. No, I'm not back yet, I just stopped in quickly and saw this post. I miss this place ;)Peace.

[screech 0]

That hand range looks about right. Once he bet/calls the flop, I think it can get narrowed down to:AA-QQ, AK-AJ, ATs, and KQ.

Good Check behind here screech?

No. But I wanted too really badly. This hand really reminded me of "The Psychology of Poker", where the author talks about how the good TA players not only know their stuff, but are able to act confidently on their reads. I got one part right in this hand.

[screech 0]

Turn(5.5BB): J completing the rainbow He checks, I bet, villian raises, I...play bad. What do I do now?

[JaysonWeber 0]

That hand range looks about right. Once he bet/calls the flop, I think it can get narrowed down to:AA-QQ, AK-AJ, ATs, and KQ.

Good Check behind here screech?

No. But I wanted too really badly. This hand really reminded me of "The Psychology of Poker", where the author talks about how the good TA players not only know their stuff, but are able to act confidently on their reads. I got one part right in this hand.

So you called his raise and then called the river bet? Oh well, next time it won't happen like that.Good Post by the way. Very good post.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Turn(5.5BB): J completing the rainbow  He checks, I bet, villian raises, I...play bad.  What do I do now?

call and fold the river UI. and UI meaning that if a Q, K, or a 10 doesn't fall, fold. I'm just calling if a queen or King falls, and am raising is a 10 falls

[JaysonWeber 0]

call and fold the river UI. and UI meaning that if a Q, K, or a 10 doesn't fall, fold. I'm just calling if a queen or King falls, and am raising is a 10 falls

Shouldn't we be more concerned with the turn? Do you really want to bet that turn in this spot? Run the range through, see what he does with each hand. I don't know, to me it seems like a very thin bet. One I would make against a Maniac in some spots, but even there I might proceed with caution. He seems like a relatively observant player, doesn't this seem like a perfect c/r with an AJ?I like checking the turn, it's a very safe board to do this, and he might bet out on the river again... when he does I just call. I pray I don't make my 2 pair, an ace would be a nice card on the river.

[KDawgCometh 2]

call and fold the river UI. and UI meaning that if a Q, K, or a 10 doesn't fall, fold. I'm just calling if a queen or King falls, and am raising is a 10 falls

Shouldn't we be more concerned with the turn? Do you really want to bet that turn in this spot? Run the range through, see what he does with each hand. I don't know, to me it seems like a very thin bet. One I would make against a Maniac in some spots, but even there I might proceed with caution. He seems like a relatively observant player, doesn't this seem like a perfect c/r with an AJ?I like checking the turn, it's a very safe board to do this, and he might bet out on the river again... when he does I just call. I pray I don't make my 2 pair, an ace would be a nice card on the river.

maybe, but I do think that us being ahead of KQ and A10 *might* be able to give us enough to bet the turn. Any other combo has two pair. Are we calling a UI river or folding that if we check this turn

[JaysonWeber 0]

call and fold the river UI. and UI meaning that if a Q, K, or a 10 doesn't fall, fold. I'm just calling if a queen or King falls, and am raising is a 10 falls

Shouldn't we be more concerned with the turn? Do you really want to bet that turn in this spot? Run the range through, see what he does with each hand. I don't know, to me it seems like a very thin bet. One I would make against a Maniac in some spots, but even there I might proceed with caution. He seems like a relatively observant player, doesn't this seem like a perfect c/r with an AJ?I like checking the turn, it's a very safe board to do this, and he might bet out on the river again... when he does I just call. I pray I don't make my 2 pair, an ace would be a nice card on the river.

maybe, but I do think that us being ahead of KQ and A10 *might* be able to give us enough to bet the turn. Any other combo has two pair. Are we calling a UI river or folding that if we check this turn

It doesn't. that's why we shoudln't be betting the turn in the first place. Our goal at this point in the hand should be "Get To Showdown" as cheap as possible. If he fires on the river we have 6.5 bets in the pot, so we're getting 6.5-1 on a call, I think we have to call this, but we don't bet the turn.6.5-1 is an easy call on the river if he misses his check/raise after we check behind on turn, we just saved 2 bets. If we win, we still played it right.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

p.s. No, I'm not back yet, I just stopped in quickly and saw this post. I miss this place  Peace.

Good to have you almost back, J-dub... we've missed you too.

[Smasharoo 0]

It doesn't. that's why we shoudln't be betting the turn in the first place. Our goal at this point in the hand should be "Get To Showdown" as cheap as possible.If he fires on the river we have 6.5 bets in the pot, so we're getting 6.5-1 on a call, I think we have to call this, but we don't bet the turn.6.5-1 is an easy call on the river if he misses his check/raise after we check behind on turn, we just saved 2 bets. If we win, we still played it right.Man, when did you become so weak/tight?Ahahaha.Do you check behind if he checks again on the river?good luck.

[screech 0]

There are only a few hands I can see villian play this way when the turn card hits:AAKKQQAKAQAJATsKQI'm ahead of 14, behind to 16, and tied with 6 of his probable combos.When I am behind, I am probably going to get check raised. Also, I have more outs on average when I'm behind then villian when he's behind.Can those who want to bet this turn explain why it's better than a check?

[Smasharoo 0]

Can those who want to bet this turn explain why it's better than a check?Well, one, you left a lot of smaller pairs that will raise UTG out of your hand range, and two, you normally don't get to see villan's turn action before you bet or check.Also, no preflop cap would narrow the hand range even more making TT a lot more likely than AA or KK from a metagame standpoint, not to mention that fact that you hold AK.So it's actually pretty close. good luck.

[screech 0]

Well, one, you left a lot of smaller pairs that will raise UTG out of your hand range, and two, you normally don't get to see villan's turn action before you bet or check.

So if I include these hands like TT/99, I also have to include JJ. JJ will c/r the turn. TT/99 will probably fold if I bet, but might call a river bet if I show weakness on the turn. So if I think villian could peel bet/call this flop with a pp below queens, wouldn't checking the turn be even better?

[JaysonWeber 0]

Well Smash, Glad to see you're still around... Always make someone provide a good lesson when you try to post.Thanks for taking the time to explain that to him Screech. I don't think anyone who advocates betting this turn has any excuse except for the one Chris and I used to love... "ME TOP PAIR ME BET"That's flawed thinking, You don't want to be betting this turn, It's just wrong..... do you see why? yet?

[Smasharoo 0]

That's flawed thinking, You don't want to be betting this turn, It's just wrong..... do you see why? yet?Hi.I know it requires a certain small level of reading coprehention to understand the diffrence between explaining why someone might advocate for something and actually sugesting it. I realize actually reading the posts is pretty time consuming when you're not really intrested in what was posted but who posted it. However.I never suggested betting the turn.Read it again and take another shot at it. Someday you'll be able to do this all on your own without me having to hand hold you through it.good luck.

[JaysonWeber 0]

It doesn't. that's why we shoudln't be betting the turn in the first place. Our goal at this point in the hand should be "Get To Showdown" as cheap as possible.If he fires on the river we have 6.5 bets in the pot, so we're getting 6.5-1 on a call, I think we have to call this, but we don't bet the turn.6.5-1 is an easy call on the river if he misses his check/raise after we check behind on turn, we just saved 2 bets. If we win, we still played it right.Man, when did you become so weak/tight?Ahahaha.Do you check behind if he checks again on the river?good luck.

So you were referring to the river? Forgive me, You know I don't read posts.

[Smasharoo 0]

So you were referring to the river? Forgive me, You know I don't read posts.I was joking with you because you went through a period where you would have thought this was an easy turn three-bet and accused me of being weak tight constantly.Then I asked if you'd check the river through too, because I was curious how you'd play it.good luck.

[JaysonWeber 0]

So you were referring to the river? Forgive me, You know I don't read posts.I was joking with you because you went through a period where you would have thought this was an easy turn three-bet and accused me of being weak tight constantly.Then I asked if you'd check the river through too, because I was curious how you'd play it.good luck.

lol yeah, that was my "ME TOP PAIR ME BET" period. It was funny getting out of it, but certainly the best thing to do.I'm checking behind on the river too, Given nearly any river card. What's the point in betting it against this player? (I'm taking from the info given from Screech that this IS a good player) Betting this river is probably not profitable for us. Say a 2 comes on the river. I think I still might check behind.. unless He is capable of calling with KQ? I don't think he has KQ. I think we're beat.Are you asking both situations? If he leads...If he checks...If he leads... I'll admit, I still suck at poker, I call.If he checks... I probably check behind, I don't see any value in betting this.If he leads I am pissed off.. But I have to call because we checked behind on the turn and that induces a lot of semi-bluffs. Sadly, the flop texture, and the way this hand was played... I don't think he's bluffing much.Agreed? What's your take?

[Smasharoo 0]

I think I probably bet/fold a fair amount of rivers here, actually.Of course knowing he'd have C/Red this turn, I wouldn't in this hand....

[JaysonWeber 0]

I think I probably bet/fold a fair amount of rivers here, actually.Of course knowing he'd have C/Red this turn, I wouldn't in this hand....

You're gonna bet/fold here... hmm... Interesting.You think he's Just calling enough to make this worth it? I think we can assume that most of the hands he'll raise with here (if not, arguably all) after checking would have us beat.But do we give him enough credit to check/raise this river after we checked behind on the turn? I really think he'd just lead out with whatever he has don't you?It would take a really good player to set that line up, and try to make it profitable... I don't think it's a good line for HIM to take, therefore I don't think he'd take it. I think in his head, he'll try to get that last bet in on the river with his made hands and won't bother with a c/r in this spot. Especially with a blank coming (like the 2 I mentioned). Does that change things? I'm to tired to think this out logically, gotta take this step by step right now