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5 handed 40-80 advice


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I'm playing short-handed 40-80 second to act. Action gets folded to me and I raise with 4 :club: 4 :D . Both blinds call. The flop comes 8-3-2 rainbow. Sb leads out, BB calls, I raise, SB three bets, BB folds, I cap, and SB calls. The turn is a 2. I lead out and the SB raises. I have a strong read on the SB and I know he is not strong, but neither am I.... What would be the optimal play here. I think my hand has strong show down value, but in my head it's 50-50 whether I'm ahead. Do I value raise or call down?

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I'm playing short-handed 40-80 second to act. Action gets folded to me and I raise with 4 :club: 4 :D . Both blinds call. The flop comes 8-3-2 rainbow. Sb leads out, BB calls, I raise, SB three bets, BB folds, I cap, and SB calls. The turn is a 2. I lead out and the SB raises. I have a strong read on the SB and I know he is not strong, but neither am I.... What would be the optimal play here. I think my hand has strong show down value, but in my head it's 50-50 whether I'm ahead. Do I value raise or call down?
Why did you cap the flop?Surely call the 3-bet, call turn, call river is a far better line.If you cap he may fold A3, AK, AQ, A2, K3, but when he beats you he makes more.How can you lead out the turn?
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I'm playing short-handed 40-80 second to act. Action gets folded to me and I raise with 4 :club: 4 :D . Both blinds call. The flop comes 8-3-2 rainbow. Sb leads out, BB calls, I raise, SB three bets, BB folds, I cap, and SB calls. The turn is a 2. I lead out and the SB raises. I have a strong read on the SB and I know he is not strong, but neither am I.... What would be the optimal play here. I think my hand has strong show down value, but in my head it's 50-50 whether I'm ahead. Do I value raise or call down?
call
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I'm playing short-handed 40-80 second to act. Action gets folded to me and I raise with 4 :club: 4 :D . Both blinds call. The flop comes 8-3-2 rainbow. Sb leads out, BB calls, I raise, SB three bets, BB folds, I cap, and SB calls. The turn is a 2. I lead out and the SB raises. I have a strong read on the SB and I know he is not strong, but neither am I.... What would be the optimal play here. I think my hand has strong show down value, but in my head it's 50-50 whether I'm ahead. Do I value raise or call down?
i've played 30/60 just a handfull of times, and i know they can be pretty aggressive short handed, but in this situation: i would put my opponent on a pocket pair and unfortunately you cant beat any PP. I would've probably called the 3-bet on the flop and lead out on the turn after the SB had checked (although there is a good chance the SB would just bet the turn because i didnt cap the flop). In that case i check-call all the way down and expect to possibly see a PP or A8.
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Depends on how maniacal the SB is. If he caps the turn with overs you call down.Given that you would have told us if he was that crazy I'd suggest you 3-bet the turn, fold to a cap. Take the free showdownThis is based on your read that you're 50/50

I have a strong read on the SB and I know he is not strong
Just curious though, what is your read that says he is weak. With the BB in there would he have not c/r a weak hand on the flop?He knows you're capping anything you raise preflop on that board so surely he only leads a strong hand?
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i play a lot of 10/20 and 15/30 short handed and i know it can get really crazy with weak hands. but with this flop there is so many hands that have you beat. ranging from 9 T to a medium pocket pair(assuming most players would 3 bet anything bigger then 9's short handed). It really depends on the type of player he is. You said you lead out on the turn so im assuming he checked to you. I might have just checked the turn and then check called the river. With the check raise on the turn Its very possible he has something like A2 as well. I'd say you are most likely beat but a call on the river would be good to see what kind of hand he would cap the flop and check raise the turn with.

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I'll go through my thought process throughtout the hand. The raise pre- flop is obvious; take the lead. On the flop, when the SB led out it felt like a weak bet so I raised. When he re-reaised it felt like an isolation play, so I capped it to take back the lead. I felt he did not have a strong eight or a mid-pair; my reasoning is that he would have re-raised preflop with a pocket pair or a hand like A-8, K-8. He had a weak pair or a draw to me. When I bet on the turn, I just didn't want to give a free card to a draw. When he re-raised, I had no doubt it was meant to induce a free showdown. At this point I narrowed his holdings to 6-6, 5-5, 4-4, or a weak 3 like 7-3. If I re-raise him, it will only be for value. I have no folding equity at this point because I feel he wants to show his hand down cheaply and he knows that I could make this re-raise with any two cards. In the actual hand, I re-raised him on the turn and he called. The riiver brought an Ace and I value bet again, SB called. He showed down 5-3. Not a bad pot for me with 4-4.

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you are the one with the read on the player but w/pocket 4's that just seems too sggresive to me. even if he doesnt have a huge hand something like 78 or 89 would have you dominated

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I disagree that I was being too agressive. In short handed play that is the only way to win. If he had any 8 in his hand he would have checked on the flop to me because I would bet that flop 99% of the time. His lead was the first mistake he made. His three bet was an obvious attempt to isolate me. As I re-think the hand, I think I gave the SB too much credit for a hand. The only possible hand he had based on his play was the 3. Any pocket pair such as 7-7 or 6-6 would have been three bet pre-flop. In a short game having the lead and being the aggressor is almost as important as the cards you hold.

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Guest Anonymous

When i think about it, I definately feel you played the hand well too. The only thing i would have done is not 3 bet the turn or value bet the river unless he checked, i might have.

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Guest Anonymous

When i think about it, I definately feel you played the hand well too. The only thing i would have done is not 3 bet the turn or value bet the river unless he checked, i might have.

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Guest Anonymous

When i think about it, I definately feel you played the hand well too. The only thing i would have done is not 3 bet the turn or value bet the river unless he checked, i might have.

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What would be the optimal play here.Folding to the flop three-bet.FPS is for suckers.
1 - agreed. if you call the 3-bet, you are calling down. if you don't want to call down, fold to the 3-bet.2 - what is FPS?3 - Smash's signature is still great Daniel
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I disagree that I was being too agressive.That's ok, you're wrong. In short handed play that is the only way to win. If he had any 8 in his hand he would have checked on the flop to me because I would bet that flop 99% of the time. His lead was the first mistake he made. His three bet was an obvious attempt to isolate me. As I re-think the hand, I think I gave the SB too much credit for a hand. The only possible hand he had based on his play was the 3. Any pocket pair such as 7-7 or 6-6 would have been three bet pre-flop. In a short game having the lead and being the aggressor is almost as important as the cards you hold.Almost as important as being able to fold small pots when you're beat too.Everything from the flop call on is chip spewing. If he's making this play often with a hand that you beat, you're playing him absolutely horribly from a metagame standpoint. You're ludicrously overthinking your opponent here and costing yourself money in the process. The fact that it's 40/80 or 900000000/1800000000000 doesn't make your flop play suck any less. I'd raise there too, but when he three-bets and shows his intention to show this down for at least 2 more BB I'm folding. When it's clear your oppnent is most likely going to show the hand down the cards DO matter. good luck.

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I disagree that I was being too agressive.That's ok, you're wrong. In short handed play that is the only way to win. If he had any 8 in his hand he would have checked on the flop to me because I would bet that flop 99% of the time. His lead was the first mistake he made. His three bet was an obvious attempt to isolate me. As I re-think the hand, I think I gave the SB too much credit for a hand. The only possible hand he had based on his play was the 3. Any pocket pair such as 7-7 or 6-6 would have been three bet pre-flop. In a short game having the lead and being the aggressor is almost as important as the cards you hold.Almost as important as being able to fold small pots when you're beat too.Everything from the flop call on is chip spewing.  If he's making this play often with a hand that you beat, you're playing him absolutely horribly from a metagame standpoint.  You're ludicrously rationalizing your play here and costing yourself money in the process.  The fact that it's 40/80 or 900000000/1800000000000 doesn't make your flop play suck any less.  I'd raise there too, but when he three-bets and shows his intention to show this down for at least 2 more BB I'm folding.  When it's clear your oppnent is most likely going to show the hand down  the cards DO matter.  good luck.
IMHO
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If I think I am ahead, is it incorrect to continue jamming the pot when I have +EV. I have no problem laying down a big hand (I'll be posting a hand from this afternoon). I felt there was a good chance that I had him so I jammed it. Lets say that I went against my reads, I would have lost 2 BB and he would have outplayed my by showing down cheaply. If your giving that up on a regular basis, you can't be a winning player. I have had people tell me that the pot was big enough. In my opinion, a pot can never be good enough. I appreciate everyones input and everyone's view on the hand. This is the reason I decided to join FCP.

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If I think I am ahead, is it incorrect to continue jamming the pot when I have +EV. I have no problem laying down a big hand (I'll be posting a hand from this afternoon). I felt there was a good chance that I had him so I jammed it. Lets say that I went against my reads, I would have lost 2 BB and he would have outplayed my by showing down cheaply. If your giving that up on a regular basis, you can't be a winning player. I have had people tell me that the pot was big enough. In my opinion, a pot can never be good enough. I appreciate everyones input and everyone's view on the hand. This is the reason I decided to join FCP.
I t think people are saying, "You probably don't have enough reason to believe you're ahead against the three-bet on the flop."Small difference, but important. If you were reasonably certain you were ahead, of course it would be silly not to jam. But the suggestion is that you had no reason to believe you were ahead.Ice
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If I think I am ahead, is it incorrect to continue jamming the pot when I have +EV. I have no problem laying down a big hand (I'll be posting a hand from this afternoon). I felt there was a good chance that I had him so I jammed it. Lets say that I went against my reads, I would have lost 2 BB and he would have outplayed my by showing down cheaply. If your giving that up on a regular basis, you can't be a winning player. I have had people tell me that the pot was big enough. In my opinion, a pot can never be good enough. I appreciate everyones input and everyone's view on the hand. This is the reason I decided to join FCP.
I t think people are saying, "You probably don't have enough reason to believe you're ahead against the three-bet on the flop."Small difference, but important. If you were reasonably certain you were ahead, of course it would be silly not to jam. But the suggestion is that you had no reason to believe you were ahead.Ice
Look above at my analysis for each street and the reason behind everything that I did. I basically narrowed his hand down to exactly what he had based on my reads. To suceed at higher limits, this type of analysis is required to win and the TAG approach just does not work above 20-40. People are constantly trying to outplay you and make you fold the best hand. The difference between a winning and losing player is knowing when your ahead and making them pay and laying down a big hand when your behind and losing as little as possible. Sometimes your weak hands are ahead and you have to reconize that and make as much money from them as possible.
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Look above at my analysis for each street and the reason behind everything that I did. I basically narrowed his hand down to exactly what he had based on my reads. To suceed at higher limits, this type of analysis is required to win and the TAG approach just does not work above 20-40. People are constantly trying to outplay you and make you fold the best hand. The difference between a winning and losing player is knowing when your ahead and making them pay and laying down a big hand when your behind and losing as little as possible. Sometimes your weak hands are ahead and you have to reconize that and make as much money from them as possible.Yeah, a lot of losing players think that.Most losing players at high lmits are sound players that outplay themselves by losing money with marginal or less than marginal hands. Sure, hand readig is important, but if the point of posting this hand was to display what a great hand reader you think you are, why bother? I mean the cards would be meaningless, right? I've three-bet ace high against a river raise in small pots before, too, and been right, but that doesn't mean I'd bother to post the hand because there's absolutely nothing to be learned from it. You post this hand, which you missplay just amazingly, and then justify it based on a read you had.Ok. Who cares? If you were right, and obviously you were because you're clearly not posting this garbage if you had a bad read, so what?Good read, nice hand, you're Stu Ungar reborn or whatever the validation you're looking for is. Yup, thihs is what makes winners at 40/80, lucky reads. That's the key. Pointless three-bets when you're 70 percent sure that you're 60/40 to win. That's what seperates the winners and the losers. good luck.

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Ok..... I'm trying to post hands here to show people who are starting out how the games are going to be played when they move up in limits because I wished someone would have done it when I was starting out. But one donkey wants to think I'm on an ego trip.... believe me, I have no ego when it comes to poker. What levels do you play at live? You can play in my game all day long and keep throwing away hands when someone three bets you because you don't have the nuts... good luck. It is quite simple, the low-limit approach to poker does not work in mid and high level games and I tried to use one hand to show it and how the thought process works to help with the learning curve for those who are aspiring to move up. HOPEFULLY I will see you at the tables buddy.

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Ok..... I'm trying to post hands here to show people who are starting out how the games are going to be played when they move up in limits because I wished someone would have done it when I was starting out. But one donkey wants to think I'm on an ego trip.... believe me, I have no ego when it comes to poker. What levels do you play at live? You can play in my game all day long and keep throwing away hands when someone three bets you because you don't have the nuts... good luck. It is quite simple, the low-limit approach to poker does not work in mid and high level games and I tried to use one hand to show it and how the thought process works to help with the learning curve for those who are aspiring to move up. HOPEFULLY I will see you at the tables buddy.Come on, now. What are you teaching low limit players with this hand?Oh yeah, nothing.Let the bruised ego thing go. I'm not attacking you personally, relax. When I attack you personally, you'll know it, trust me. There's a vast diffrence between folding an overpair here and folding an UNDERPAIR here. The reverse implied odds are substantial even when you're slightly ahead, which is about the best you can hope for, and fairly often you're drawig exceptionally slim. If you just raised any time someone bet into you, you'd get max value from your marginal hands and you'd win a lot pots with the worst hand. You'd also be a huge loser long term.That's the point. I've played litterally millions of hands shorthanded in very agressive games online and live and your play in this hand is a disaster. The limit is completely irrelevant. The relvant part of this hand is that your opponent shows he's committed to showdown when he three-bets the flop. Limit over the long term is like arbitrage. You made this play and were right this time, great. The question is if you make the play 100 times in the same situation with the same read how often are you right and do you win money long term.Stop being results oriented in the short term. It's going to cost you money.good luck.

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