8 best players

[AC BillP 0]

Actually I think there are 2 Fishman/Fischmans--both are great young players and no misspelling. Eddie Fishman won a WSOP Omaha 8 bracelet in '02 but is mostly a top ring player. So is Scoot Fischman- both in ring games- and with 3 WSOP braclets in a row. The lists I see make sense for the best tournament players. But, for money STILL in the bank, outside of Daniel and Ivey a lot of it goes to cash game- ring players, names people don't see on TV.

[Fluffyfrog 0]

8. phil hellmuth - one of the best tournament players IMHO, others may disagree. he makes great reads on people but really, he makes insanely sweet plays to take down big pots. i'm thinking of the one hand in the 2003 wsop where he re-raised with 77 on a JJK flop and made a guy lay down J10, not just because of his reraise but because of how he played the hand and the way he took his time, etc.aseem

After reading this page (http://www.improving.org/paulp/poker/tonyd-vs-hellmuth/index.html) i'm not quite sure what to think about that hand.

[adamkadmon 0]

whats the game? if your talking no limit I think you have to at least consider Minh nguyen. I have not seen him on any list yet he led in the points race at the world series for most of the event, i think untill the last event when daniel caught up. running around looking for mulla, sattalites, this that and i dont think he played as much as daniel and he diid it all while living a gypsy kind of existance. I think there are a lot of great players we will never hear of for the simkple reason that there lives and games have leaks so the never get the opportunity to soar with the eagles being their struggling with the takeoff. Dewey Tomko is another I have lots of respect for and would have to at least consider on my list. I'm surprised no one picked themselves even if it does sound egocentric it seems like someone out there would think they could hang with Howard. allen cunningham game has also got to be up there and where is huckleberry seed? I believe we will see more of huck and allen this year. Go huck wherever you are, probable in a tent with a can of beens and a fishing pole. theres loots of good ones and only time will tell who the greatest are.

[Guest]

Where does Chip Reese get his respect from?Was on Superstars, ESPN invitational, and a WPT final.He showed nothing on any of these shows. Why is he considered among the best?

He probably gets his respect due to being considered one of the best cash game players in Vegas, something pros would know about better than us, and from being the youngest inductee in the Poker Hall of Fame.

[augmented 0]

hmmm....ok how bout this1. negreanu = ridic2. ivey, makes no mistakes3. juanda, incredible and fun to watch4. forrest - insane that 7-stud at the wsop.....5. josh arieh - this guy is nuts. he makes the most incredible laydowns....6. lederer (those that say he's too tight dont know what theyre talking about)7. scotty nguyen - such a psychological baller8. phil hellmuth--come on people, this guy is good. i really like the way he plays, and i dont really see him making that many mistakes. he makes good analyses of situations and is not afraid to take risks9. gus hansen - i still don't understand him, but results are pretty good indicators i think.10. johnny chan - hes not incredible, but to win 2 straight wsops says something. he makes good reads and everything. good guy.if only stu ungar was still alive. anyone that says he was not the best player ever is 100% wrong and earns my lifelong contempt. by the way, hey everyone. 1st post.

[LeeDanger 0]

Well my opinion is invalid because my list is:1. myself2. Dave Scharf3. Barry Greinstein4. Phil Ivey5. Daniel6. Howard Lederer7. Gus Hansen8. Doyle BrunsonNo Chip Reese so I guess you guys can ignore my opinion.

[Reasonable Doubt 0]

This list isn't entirely based on solely recent performances, but it definitely isn't of all time. It's obviously skewed toward who's hot now though, but it's also largely affected by cash games as well. I guess it's just a personal list based on what I've seen. 1. Lederer2. Negreanu3. Ivey4. Ted Forest5. Chip Reese6. Greenstein7. Chau Giang8. Juanda

[iveyfan30 0]

5. josh arieh - this guy is nuts. he makes the most incredible laydowns....are you talking about that laydown to john murphy in this years wsop? his flush vs. murphy's full house? if murphy played the hand right, arieh woulda been knocked out right there, or at least crippled..i think his laydown was the only play after murphy goes all in on the river..i cant really knock murphy , im sure he was majorly nervous...is that considered a good laydown by arieh?im not critisizing, just wondering...

[augmented 0]

not only that one, although that was a great play and i agree that murphy should have checked. but there are others.for example, he had A7 with like, 7749 out there and folded to an all in. turns out matusow had 444. that kind of thing. he is incredibly good. the only bad thing he did at the wsop was when he called all in with a flush draw and managed to hit. but, he is a gambler at heart and felt like maybe he had to make a move. arieh is insanely good man believe me. and it is pretty much impossible to fold that K high flush...although in retrospect it was clear he was beat, but its so hard to do a retrospect in the present!

[MrConceit 0]

Greinstein- I don't really like him, looks to much like a gomer for my tastes, and I'm still wondering how he manages to make money to survive while giving all his profits, I'm not sure if he takes right offs and keeps enough to live off of or not, to charity. But you can't deny his skill. If he's in a tournament you can garuntee he'll be sitting at the final table and have a good chance to take first place.

He makes money from his cash games. He does basically give away all poker tournament winnings. And (from what I read) quite often can't write it all off. He was about ready to retire on cash game stuff before he got back into the tourney trail. He did it so he could donate money to charity.

[jayistheman 0]

jay' date=' tell me one person on my list who greenstein, brunson, or reese (barely missed the list) beat heads up most of the time, its hard to leave out the legends but i said TODAY, not a career rank.[/quote']

heads up play, by no means, is a good gague for overall skill.... at all. greenstein, brunson, and reese remain consistent winners in "the big game" to this day.

[KidKanuck 0]

TJ Cloutier??? What has he won lately?2004 results according to hendonmob.com10-Oct-04 $ 1' date='500 No Limit Hold'em Final Day2004 Festa al Lago III Poker Tournament, Las Vegas [b']2nd $ 44,952[/b]01-Sep-04 No Limit Hold'em - Tournament of ChampionsWorld Series of Poker Tournament of Champions, Las Vegas9th 01-Jul-04 $ 3,000 No Limit Hold'emFesta al Lago II, Las Vegas 3rd $ 37,463 26-Jun-04 $ 2,500 No Limit Hold'emFesta al Lago II, Las Vegas 10th $ 4,001 23-Jun-04 $ 1,000 No Limit Hold'emFesta al Lago II, Las Vegas 1st $ 129,119 17-May-04 $ 5,000 Limit Hold'em35th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2004, Las Vegas 9th $ 20,020 15-May-04 $ 1,500 Seven Card Razz35th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2004, Las Vegas 1st $ 90,500 14-May-04 $ 3,000 Pot Limit Hold'em35th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2004, Las Vegas 15th $ 8,720 27-Apr-04 $ 1,500 Pot Limit Hold'em35th World Series of Poker (WSOP) 2004, Las Vegas 29th $ 2,000 19-Apr-04 $ 25,000 WPT No Limit Hold'em Championship Final Day2004 Bellagio Five-Star World Poker Classic/WPT Championship, Las Vegas 8th $ 133,064 09-Apr-04 $ 2,500 Pot Limit Hold'em2004 Bellagio Five-Star World Poker Classic/WPT Championship, Las Vegas 15th $ 3,735 03-Apr-04 $ 2,500 No Limit Hold'em2004 Bellagio Five-Star World Poker Classic/WPT Championship, Las Vegas 3rd $ 80,762 29-Mar-04 $ 1,000 No Limit Hold'em2004 World Poker Challenge, Reno 17th $ 1,922 06-Feb-04 $ 500 Pot Limit Omaha2004 L.A. Poker Classic, Los Angeles 9th $ 1,990 19-Jan-04 $ 1,000 No Limit Hold'emThe Fifth Annual Jack Binion World Poker Open - 2004, Tunica 13th $ 3,702 15-Jan-04 $ 200 No Limit Hold'em2004 Grand American Poker Classic, Robinsonville 2nd $ 10,470 2004 money list excerpt...seems to be around or in better standing than some of the names mentioned in other posts35th Phil Ivey $ 723,940 37th Ted Forrest $ 720,779 46th Men 'The Master' Nguyen $ 604,697 48th T.J. Cloutier $ 572,420 50th Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson $ 558,172 63rd Paul Phillips $ 476,637 64th Dave 'Devilfish' Ulliott $ 476,121 66th Gus Hansen $ 470,780 83rd Chau Giang $ 404,136 84th Jennifer Harman $ 401,821 90th Alan Goehring $ 375,834 98th Ben Affleck $ 356,400KK

[Suited_Up 2]

Ok, well just to nit pick... only one was a win.But maybe I just don't like him, he's such a cranky old man. Always seems pissed of when he gets outplayed or loses a pot, or anything... just angry.

[CodyHartman 0]

To make this list I took a look at tournies, side games, weaknessess and strengths, not just NLHE. All games considered. I also looked at each players impact on the game CURRENTLY. Okay so I went on Barry Greeenstein's site and looked at his rankings. Based on what he wrote and a bit of what I have noticed in the poker world here is the list. No paticular order, mostly alphabeticalDoyle Brunson- although getting old he still is fierce and competitve, play's big $$ poker often and consistently wins. Legen, nuff said.Chau Giang- not many people had heard of this guy until last years PLO televised tourney on ESPN. Big money player who does well in the "big game." 3 WSOP bracelets in only 50 events, darn good percentage there.Barry Greenstein- Biggest winner in the side games over the last 10 years, when he plays in tournies he does quite well. Over 1.3 million last year in tournies alone that went to charity.Phil Ivey- Raw talent, awesome player. Always looking for the biggest action. He is feared by many in the poker world.Daniel Negreanu- Not just b/c this is his site, but he has done quite well in the side games, and we all know his tourney record. Plays all games well.Chip Reese-has probably won more $$ playing poker then anyone. Always a threat in the big game. Tournaments have not gone his way as of late, but many consider him the best poker player in the world. Legendary status.Now I know this is only 7 but the bubble has a few players that could be on the list. I have given the reasons why I think the should not be on the list at this time. Anyways tied for 8th.Howard Lederer- All around great player, but his side game seems to lack, you can certainly argue about his tourney skills though.Jennifer Harman-Traniello- health issues have kept her away from th tables as of late. But she has recently in the past 3 months made a strong comeback. She has great side game skill as well as tourney skill. Not just the best women, but one of the best period.Gus Hansen- Noone can dispute his tourney skill. But his recklessness (or so called) hurts him in the side games. Great player though, but he needs more sucess in the side games.John Juanda- SIde games as well keep him off the list. If it was just tournies we were talking about then it may be different.Chan- Great player but has really fallen off both the side game and tourney map as of late. No doubt great player but just hasn't had the results lately.Anyways super long post. As I have stated earlier aving 8 players is NEVER going to be fair. Make it 16 92 tables of 8) and this list would be more fair to all.