NormanHaupt 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 so it has no intimidation factor to sit with more money..? lol Link to post Share on other sites
aneurysm 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 so it has no intimidation factor to sit with more money..? lolSure it does! But you'd have more luck intimidating with your play than your chipstack in micro-limit. Stick to 15-30bb. If you have a big downswing you don't want to loose the 100bb (though unlikely) you are currently playing with. Link to post Share on other sites
akishore 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 there's no need to lecture people on how much money to sit with at a fixed limit table other than that they should have a bare minimum of 20 big bets. 25 should be the minimum IMHO, and i personally sit with 50 while multitabling just so i won't ever have to reload on a bad couple of hands (i've never lost 50 big bets at a time on a table, and if i do, the table's obviously eating me alive, so i'll just leave). really, sit with your full bankroll if you want, some people do that.obviously this doesn't apply to NL.aseem Link to post Share on other sites
akishore 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 if the only reason for sitting down with 30 big bets is to set a stop loss, fine. i don't personally set stop losses, but if you can't make yourself stop after losing 30 big bets when you sat with 100, then sure, only sit with 30.aseemedit: i don't mean to flame or criticize your opinion, but i'm really strongly against sitting down with anything less than 20-25 big bets. 15 is far too small, IMHO. a big hand capped all the way is 12 big bets, and even if it's not capped all the way, it can be around 10 big bets. a round of blinds will be another 0.75 bets or 1 bet if you call your small blind. this doesn't leave much room for manipulation once you fall below 15 big bets! realize that a stop loss is ok, but you should never be in a hand with less than 12 big bets, EVER, because you limit yourself to how much you can gain in a hand and you really don't have enough to play the hand properly. for this reason, i advocate 25 big bets since it allows two capped-all-the-way hands. if i fall below 12 big bets, i will immediately reload back to 25. just my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
aneurysm 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 akishore: you are right, this is not a signifigant issue. We both have our own methods. I think NormanHaupt and other novices should see how they feel most comfortable. Link to post Share on other sites
NormanHaupt 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 If I drop below 7 dollars you bet I'm getting up.I've gone between 9.38 (where I am currently) and 11.89. This money is lasting quite a big longer than it does at 1/2 tables, lolI've lost a couple times not watching the board for straights. they seem to blindside me a lot. People go all the way to the river on a gut shot. But otherwise, I'm holding my own moneywise. I'll send a daily history of my hands to my box and pick out some key ones I lost.I should raise more when I have a boss hand delt to me? Link to post Share on other sites
aneurysm 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I should raise more when I have a boss hand delt to me?Post more hands and we can discuss them. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
Shred 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Winning Low Limit Holdem by Jones  Thought this book was pretty terrible if it is, indeed the one I'm thinking of. Doesn't advocating not raising with AK in late position if there are many limpers in before you in there somewhere?I believe Jone's first edition mentioned only limping with AK, however the second edition suggests raising - there's a couple of pages that the author rethought including the AK situation. I should clarify the Winning Low Limit Holdem 2nd edition is recommended. I think it really sets a solid foundation. The first edition was good but I thought had some flaws. Link to post Share on other sites
jeff_536 3 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I've been playing a lot of the .02/.04 micro HE on stars and always sit down with $1...25BB.Most people there have anything from a few pennies to a few dollars but every once ina while a guy sits down with $10. Only speaking from my own experience, when I see that, i immediately think he's inexperienced...that much of that stack will soon be mine (not that I don't think that about any player, it's just different with a BR that big0>To me, it just reeks of newbie.At a .05/.10 game, i'd probably sit with between $3 and $5. Link to post Share on other sites
aneurysm 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I've been playing a lot of the .02/.04 micro HE on stars and always sit down with $1...25BB.Most people there have anything from a few pennies to a few dollars but every once ina  while a guy sits down with $10.  Only speaking from my own experience, when I see that, i immediately think he's inexperienced...that much of that stack will soon be mine (not that I don't think that about any player, it's just different with a BR that big0>To me, it just reeks of newbie.At a .05/.10 game, i'd probably sit with between $3 and $5.I agree. But hey, if that style works... run with it. Link to post Share on other sites
NormanHaupt 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 just lost pocket aces to a straight, again on the river. Is this ridicious or what? what makes people want to play a gutshot to the river through my raising?! Link to post Share on other sites
sloshr 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 If you are playing that tight preflop, I would raise every hand you play. Don't worry about scaring people off. At those limits, if they have anything at all, they are calling, so make them pay. Slow down when there are 3 to a flush or 4 to a straight out there, otherwise if you have a boss pair, bet it like it is the boss. At least bet until you are raised. These guys usually have what they are representing. Also, if there is an A on the flop and you don't have one, dump your hand immediately.I like the way you are starting out. I think you have a winning approach and with more experience, you can start changing your strategy and playing a few more hands. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
aneurysm 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 just lost pocket aces to a straight, again on the river. Is this ridicious or what? what makes people want to play a gutshot to the river through my raising?!Post her. Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Reed 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I'll add my suggestions as well.First, I agree with the basic Holdem book by Ken Warren to get a solid foundation. Theory of Poker if you really want to get serious next, and then SSHE by Sklanksy. If you think it's too complicated, find another hobby. It's a slow read to get the concepts, but should definately improve your game. The only problem is it is very aggressive and people should pay attention the starting charts carefully and use the tight chart more.In the hand you posted you limped in with AK. Don't ever do it again! Never! Raise with good hands, reraise with em too! Don't ever worry about running people out at low limits, get the most while you have the good cards.One other suggestion, try Killer Poker online by Varhues if you ever read the others. It gives all kinds of help and hints at what to do to fight boredom and the pitfalls of online poker as well. Link to post Share on other sites
poker_bull 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 I welcome criticism and advice, and other stories about your first experiences so maybe I don't feel like such a moron. Â My first time was this girl named Havala. Oh wait, you meant poker? Too long ago to remember. Link to post Share on other sites
justblaze 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 77, 88, and AQ might get you into more trouble than they're worth if raised indiscriminately, but it's not a bad idea to play them in order to see where and how they do thatIt's silly not raise AQ pre-flop unless you play horribly after the flop.lol some guy laughed at my AQ which i pumped from UTG preflop yesterday on a 1-2 table. the flop was A86, turn A, river 7. he turned up A7 for the win on the river, and then proceeded to berate me for raising preflop. "AQ is the same as A7, it serves you right not winning that hand, with all that stupid pre flop betting. why cant you just let us see the damn flop man, stop betting. you'll never win like that! you only know 2 cards!" LOL. that put me on tilt a little, so i had to stop playing. Link to post Share on other sites
NormanHaupt 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Happened a couple times. Once though, I admit I wasn't paying attention. I'm still chugging along.This is one weird hand I *JUST* playedSkip my explanation for the cold hard facts.I'm in SB, AQd .. folds around to me. Taking a page from Phil Hellmuth, raise straight out and scare 'em if you can. Didn't work, they called.Flop Jd As KdI caught pair of aces AND a flush draw. I bet, and get reraised, then rereraised by both others.What Was I supposed to do here?Turn drops a nohelp 2 of spades.Still.. top pair and flush draw.Check, Check, Bet, Call, Call.8 of clubs pops.I hate folding on the river.. I really do. Isn't that a pot odds thing at this point?Dude caught on the river Aces and Eights. *********** # 1 **************PokerStars Game #1196508040: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/02/10 - 16:08:28 (ET)Table 'Capella' Seat #4 is the buttonSeat 1: Tytch ($11.14 in chips) Seat 2: Dr. Face ($2.34 in chips) Seat 3: Mr Pink 3113 ($4.88 in chips) Seat 4: spinaker60 ($4.88 in chips) Seat 7: NormanHaupt ($9.73 in chips) Seat 8: diceguns ($5.15 in chips) Seat 9: Caledfwlch ($2.65 in chips) Seat 10: twoer ($0.97 in chips) kaug will be allowed to play after the buttonNormanHaupt: posts small blind $0.02diceguns: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to NormanHaupt [Ad Qd]Caledfwlch: folds twoer: calls $0.05Tytch: folds Dr. Face: folds Mr Pink 3113: folds spinaker60: folds NormanHaupt: raises $0.05 to $0.10diceguns: calls $0.05twoer: calls $0.05*** FLOP *** [Jd As Kd]Dr. Face leaves the tableNormanHaupt: bets $0.05diceguns: raises $0.05 to $0.10twoer: raises $0.05 to $0.15NormanHaupt: calls $0.10diceguns: calls $0.05*** TURN *** [Jd As Kd] [2s]NormanHaupt: checks diceguns: checks salzburg joins the table at seat #2 twoer: bets $0.10NormanHaupt: calls $0.10diceguns: calls $0.10*** RIVER *** [Jd As Kd 2s] [8c]NormanHaupt: checks diceguns: checks twoer: bets $0.10NormanHaupt: calls $0.10diceguns: folds *** SHOW DOWN ***twoer: shows [8h Ac] (two pair, Aces and Eights)NormanHaupt: mucks hand twoer collected $1.25 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $1.25 | Rake $0 Board [Jd As Kd 2s 8c]Seat 1: Tytch folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: Dr. Face folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Mr Pink 3113 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: spinaker60 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 7: NormanHaupt (small blind) mucked [Ad Qd]Seat 8: diceguns (big blind) folded on the RiverSeat 9: Caledfwlch folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 10: twoer showed [8h Ac] and won ($1.25) with two pair, Aces and Eights------And my other hand.. I shouldn't have played AQ Offsuit.. :(Transcript for last 5 games requested by NormanHaupt(NormanAHaupt@yahoo.com)*********** # 1 **************PokerStars Game #1196542169: Hold'em Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/02/10 - 16:17:10 (ET)Table 'Capella' Seat #3 is the buttonSeat 1: Tytch ($10.84 in chips) Seat 2: salzburg ($1.45 in chips) Seat 3: Mr Pink 3113 ($4.33 in chips) Seat 4: spinaker60 ($4.38 in chips) Seat 5: kaug ($2.75 in chips) Seat 6: loganw ($1.01 in chips) Seat 7: NormanHaupt ($9.13 in chips) Seat 8: diceguns ($4.60 in chips) Seat 9: Caledfwlch ($2.90 in chips) Seat 10: card79 ($1.95 in chips) spinaker60: posts small blind $0.02kaug: posts big blind $0.05*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to NormanHaupt [Ah Qc]loganw: calls $0.05NormanHaupt said, "."NormanHaupt: calls $0.05diceguns: folds Caledfwlch: folds card79: calls $0.05Tytch: folds salzburg: folds Mr Pink 3113: calls $0.05spinaker60: calls $0.03kaug: checks *** FLOP *** [Qd 6s Qs]spinaker60: checks kaug: checks loganw: checks NormanHaupt: bets $0.05card79: calls $0.05Mr Pink 3113: calls $0.05spinaker60: calls $0.05kaug: folds loganw: folds *** TURN *** [Qd 6s Qs] [5c]spinaker60: checks NormanHaupt: bets $0.10card79: calls $0.10Mr Pink 3113: calls $0.10spinaker60: folds *** RIVER *** [Qd 6s Qs 5c] [9h]NormanHaupt: bets $0.10card79: calls $0.10Mr Pink 3113: calls $0.10*** SHOW DOWN ***NormanHaupt: shows [Ah Qc] (three of a kind, Queens)card79: shows [9d 9c] (a full house, Nines full of Queens)Mr Pink 3113: mucks hand card79 collected $1.10 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $1.10 | Rake $0 Board [Qd 6s Qs 5c 9h]Seat 1: Tytch folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: salzburg folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Mr Pink 3113 (button) mucked [As 9s]Seat 4: spinaker60 (small blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: kaug (big blind) folded on the FlopSeat 6: loganw folded on the FlopSeat 7: NormanHaupt showed [Ah Qc] and lost with three of a kind, QueensSeat 8: diceguns folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 9: Caledfwlch folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 10: card79 showed [9d 9c] and won ($1.10) with a full house, Nines full of Queens Link to post Share on other sites
akishore 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 listen man, you did nothing wrong either of those two hands, except maybe that you should raised preflop with AQ on the second hand.the first hand, you actually also had a gutshot straight draw, AND you dominated his A8 with your AQ. that's just bad luck, what you can you do. basically, the only way he could win was to get a non-diamond 8, so he had two outs going against you to the river... 5% chance after the turn.the second hand, the guy was an idiot for staying in with his 9's, unless he thought you didn't have the Q. that's why fastplaying your trips rather slowplaying them works really well, because he was also on a two-outer at the river. that other 95% of the time, you would have raked in a decent pot.don't worry about either hand, that's luck for you. you played them great in my book.aseem Link to post Share on other sites
sloshr 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Don't say you shouldn't have played AQ just because a guy caught a one-outer on the river (yes, the flush draw guy had his other 9). You played it great, other than the fact you didnt raise preflop. People tend to think that they did something wrong just because they lost a pot. Thats poker. Just think "that guy's money will be mine soon, calling all the way with 99 against a tight player. Keep playing and you will beat these guys badly, even with your limited experience. Just remember to RAISE more. Link to post Share on other sites
daveyjohn 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Hi Norman,I'm pretty much a novice who's just a couple of months down the road from you. I've been playing low limit hold 'em since reading Lee Jones' book a few months ago.I think you played both of these hands pretty well and you were unfortunate both times. You got money into the pot when you had the best hand. With the first one, you certainly had the odds to draw to the flush. This hand shows you how poor players will play any pair - especially aces. I'll bet he didn't even consider what cards you had - his eyes just lit up when he saw a pair of aces. You had him beaten until the river and you made him pay as much as possible to see the next card.The second hand was even more unfortunate. You flopped trips with an ace kicker, so you got your money in, but one guy caught one of the other 9s. Almost every other time, you will win hands like that.What I found difficult to do at first was to keep on putting in those bets after I had just lost money. It takes determination even at low limits. Personally, I'm growing more confident that I am making the right decisions, so I can switch off that part of my brain that's telling me I must be doing something wrong if I'm losing money. I'm sure you will too.It's exciting though isn't it?!!? Link to post Share on other sites
NormanHaupt 0 Posted February 10, 2005 Author Share Posted February 10, 2005 Still learning hands I should/shouldn't play to the river. Stopping for the day, after several hours of playing, I'm down from $60.00 to ... $59.93. Thanks for all the posts and replies while I figure this out. Its a long road, but its good to know the myth that you don't want to help the people who pay you isn't true.EDIT: ADDONThanks for the great post, yeah its discouraging.. but, I chased two different sets of pocket aces down a flush hole too, so I've been there where he's at.It really really is about paying attention and guessing what the other dude has.For a little bit, I got to do shorthand.. 4 people, and I was *CLEANING UP*. I jumped 2 dollars in a couple hands just by making some smart aggressive play. Maybe a little lucky cards.. but man, I love shorthanded. Sadly they don't stay that way. Link to post Share on other sites
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