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paradox....think about it


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okay. I buy in for the minimum in a heads up NL cash game against a total donk who has 10 times my stack.now, since I am +EV against this guy (he sucks) i should keep playing, right? always exploit your edges. but, if i were never to quit this guy, its essentially a tournament type of thing, and if we got down to heads up in a tournament and i was outchipped 10 to 1, i would be more likely to lose it all, or, -EV.so basically, if i follow the rules of +EV in this situation, i am -EV. this is kinda a paradox, is it not? anyone care to enlighten me? could open up some reasonable conversation.

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What the hell are you talking about?Your fr'ikin numbers are arbitrary!!!Ask a real question!!!!If you buy in with a "donk" with ten times your stack what makes you think that right away you are +ev?Pretend that you are +ev because you are so good that you play poker and not post dumb questions on web forums; if you get get chipped 10-1 it is because you don't have the BR to sustain the variance and the preasure of the big stack.

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How does chip stack size matter? Sure he can put you all in at any time, but since you're a better player you'll be going all in with the best of it, right? That is +EV, right?
With respect, this whole line of questioning is arbitrary. Sure If one is such a great player that they can predict the future, read the mind of other players, and pick other table players, then yes stack does not matter. However, the question was about a "super natural" player whom is short stacked playing a "donk" with 10 times the stack. Remember broken clocks are correct twice a dayand bad poker players are allowed to have big hands. So even if you can out play them, the mathmatical odds of you always having the beter hand is slim, thus the BR plays a big part when the best player is short stacked.
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This has nothing to do with a "tournament situation" just because he has 10x more chips than you.It's a cash game, you always have the option to get up and leave at any time. Therefore you dont have to keep double up hoping that he wont eventually knock you out like its a tournament. It's +EV (provided you are better than said "donk") because you can double up, triple up, etc and then get up and leave as you choose ... you dont have to get all the chips eventually.

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Playing w/ someone who you are better than is +EV, however this does not mean that you will win in the short run. You can make +EV plays and still lose to luck, especially if you are outchipped. If you were to continually rebuy and you guys played heads up forever as long as you are making +EV plays you will come out ahead over the long run.

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This has nothing to do with a "tournament situation" just because he has 10x more chips than you.It's a cash game, you always have the option to get up and leave at any time. Therefore you dont have to keep double up hoping that he wont eventually knock you out like its a tournament. It's +EV (provided you are better than said "donk") because you can double up, triple up, etc and then get up and leave as you choose ... you dont have to get all the chips eventually.
You can leave when you want, AND you can rebuy when you want.Yes, you have a good chance of busting once or twice. but if your bankroll can't sustain buying more chips to bust this donkey, you shouldn't be playing in the game at all.
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How does chip stack size matter? Sure he can put you all in at any time, but since you're a better player you'll be going all in with the best of it, right? That is +EV, right?
With respect, this whole line of questioning is arbitrary. Sure If one is such a great player that they can predict the future, read the mind of other players, and pick other table players, then yes stack does not matter. However, the question was about a "super natural" player whom is short stacked playing a "donk" with 10 times the stack. Remember broken clocks are correct twice a dayand bad poker players are allowed to have big hands. So even if you can out play them, the mathmatical odds of you always having the beter hand is slim, thus the BR plays a big part when the best player is short stacked.
I didn't even realize I was ending every sentence with a question mark. I don't think that I was saying that every time you put chips into the pot you have to be ahead in the hand. Just becase a player has you outchipped by a large margin does not mean that each hand you play will be all in.The OP said, "but, if i were never to quit this guy, its essentially a tournament type of thing, and if we got down to heads up in a tournament and i was outchipped 10 to 1, i would be more likely to lose it all, or, -EV." I think the blinds are very relevant to this situation. If your stack is a decent size in relation to the blinds, then this game is very favorable to you. However, if you are posting a significant portion of your stack each hand, then this would be -EV. When it comes to poker, hypotheticals can be very hard to answer just because of all the variables.
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If he has 10 times as many chips as you, it's more unlikely that you're going to take it all using that minimum. You have to win multiple counflips, and you can't lose any of them, otherwise he's back to even.

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If he has 10 times as many chips as you, it's more unlikely that you're going to take it all using that minimum. You have to win multiple counflips, and you can't lose any of them, otherwise he's back to even.
You don't have to take all the chips. The blinds aren't escalating, you don't have to get involved in coin flips.
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but if i am way better than him, i never should quit, since i am +EV against him (assuming i am a good player).if i never quit, and lets say i never rebuy, am i +EV or -EV?

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but if i am way better than him, i never should quit, since i am +EV against him (assuming i am a good player).if i never quit, and lets say i never rebuy, am i +EV or -EV?
Well then that would really depend on the other players style. If he is LAG i would think you would be -EV as he would be at you hard and you would lose chips to his all-in reraises where you cannot call or you would eventually lose as a 70/30 or more favorite when all the money goes inIf he is a calling station is +EV as you can control the odds on the hands, you can get money in with the best of it more often while still protecting your stack so you don't go broke.
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but if i am way better than him, i never should quit, since i am +EV against him (assuming i am a good player).if i never quit, and lets say i never rebuy, am i +EV or -EV?
If you never quit, you get sleepy. Getting sleepy is -EV. If you take that basic principle, then factor in the cosecant of the median starting hand, Q7, and divide that figure by the cube root of small blind over the parabola of your opponent's VP$IP, then you will arrive at your EV in this situation.Of course, this is all assuming that he's LAG. If he's TAG, then it's a paradox.
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but if i am way better than him, i never should quit, since i am +EV against him (assuming i am a good player).  if i never quit, and lets say i never rebuy, am i +EV or -EV?
Because of variance, and because his starting stack is larger, it may be more likely that you will lose your entire starting stack than he will.But this fact is irrelevent.Losing your starting stack does not matter.If you are going to play forever, you can just add more chips.As long as you are playing with a lesser player, eventually you will start pulling ahead.Point: You will make money in the long run regardless of starting stack sizes.--cnm
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