daniel can't catch a break ----he's out!!!!

[sholden 0]

As for me, I lost 10,000 on the following hand: I raised to 250 with 7d 8d from late position. John Phan called, Paul Phillips called on the button, and the Grinder called from the big blind. The flop came 5d 9d 10h. I bet out 500, John Phan called, and Paul Phillips made it 2000. He had 7750 more so I put it all in. John folded and Paul called which left me with 1400. Paul had pocket tens and the turn came a 5...

$1500 seems like a great price just to call there - you're not risking your whole tourney if you miss or the board pairs, mucho implied odds if you hit. why move in? because phan was still in the hand?

You move all in because you could get Paul off of a pair of tens. If Paul has a hand like K-10, he would likely fold in that spot. Also, the worst my hand could be against any hand is about a 3-2 underdog.

Kd 10d has you crushed worse than that.

[looshle 6]

can't catch a break what do you mean? he has nothing but a draw to a guy with trips. if he catches the diamond then he is lucky. odds are about 60-40. and that is can't catching a break.

He was open ended too.

[hpotter9000 0]

in the 5d9dTh flop where Daniel held 7d8d. I have no problem with the way Daniel played his hand. Grinding it out is not his style -- and probably not a very good when all the money is in the top 3. But it is conceivable Daniel's opponent held something like Ad Td or QdJd which would've made worse than a 3-2 favorite as had thought.

[ALL__DAY 0]

Daniel, with your superior poker skill and experience, I'm not sure getting all-in here is the proper play...So early...blinds so small...

[DanielNegreanu 141]

If he had K-10 I would actually have been a 55% favorite. Against the hand he did have, trip 10's, I was 61-39 underdog. There was already money in the pot. By moving him all in on the flop I get him off of a pair of 10's most likely, and if he calls it's not the end of the world. Other than Phil Hellmuth, I don't know of a winning player that wouldn't want to get all of their money into the pot with an open ended straight and flush draw. It's a dream semi-bluff hand that should be played aggressively.

[holdinmynutz 0]

DN - how are other FCPers doing? Travis and anyone else?I would have played that the same way as you...will be in GR the week before christmas...

[ALL__DAY 0]

Yes, but I'd say there's a 50% chance that he has 2 pair or better and will call your all-in... Thus, there's a 50% chance that he has you beat badly (61 to 39, as you say) and a 50% chance that you'll win the pot right there...(which isn't really all that large)...I think this is a -EV play for someone of your caliber...

[ALL__DAY 0]

Well, you didn't have an open-ended draw...You had an inside draw, which is why you're such a big dog...Also, j/10, k/10, q/10 odds are irrelevant...as he would not call an all-in early in the tournament with such hands...

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Yes, but I'd say there's a 50% chance that he has 2 pair or better and will call your all-in...  Thus, there's a 50% chance that he has you beat badly (61 to 39, as you say) and a 50% chance that you'll win the pot right there...(which isn't really all that large)...I think this is a -EV play for someone of your caliber...

Where did you come up with this whole "50-50" deal? You think he is better than even money to have two pair or better? You'd be wrong, I promise! :-)

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Well, you didn't have an open-ended draw...You had an inside draw, which  is why you're such a big dog...Also, j/10, k/10, q/10 odds are irrelevant...as he would not call an all-in early in the tournament with such hands...

You are wrong. Look at the hand again. The board was 5d-9d-10. That makes an open ended draw and a straight flush draw.

[ALL__DAY 0]

I don't see paul raising a multiway pot against the intial raiser with too many hands here...

[ALL__DAY 0]

You're right. I thoughtyou had 6/7...

[Loismustdie 0]

Yes, but I'd say there's a 50% chance that he has 2 pair or better and will call your all-in...  Thus, there's a 50% chance that he has you beat badly (61 to 39, as you say) and a 50% chance that you'll win the pot right there...(which isn't really all that large)...I think this is a -EV play for someone of your caliber...

Where did you come up with this whole "50-50" deal? You think he is better than even money to have two pair or better? You'd be wrong, I promise! :-)

I don't know about this whole 50-50 thing but I will say that as good as the play was, being that I like aggression, I also see the other side in that I am in countless situations online these days when I find it correct to call overbets because so many people are playing draws so aggressively these days- so, whereas I know you know the 2 players you are up against may fold, online it's damn near impossible to move people off of a hand, so this play may not be as effective for me. I try to catch cheaply and then extract some extra if my draw hits, maybe bluff the river a bit- it just depends.

[MikePatrick 0]

Since I tend not to be tooooo mean to the newbs, can someone please write what we're all thinking...

[Guest]

As for me, I lost 10,000 on the following hand:  I raised to 250 with 7d 8d from late position.  John Phan called, Paul Phillips called on the button, and the Grinder called from the big blind.    The flop came 5d 9d 10h.  I bet out 500, John Phan called, and Paul Phillips made it 2000.  He had 7750 more so I put it all in.  John folded and Paul called which left me with 1400.  Paul had pocket tens and the turn came a 5...

$1500 seems like a great price just to call there - you're not risking your whole tourney if you miss or the board pairs, mucho implied odds if you hit. why move in? because phan was still in the hand?

You move all in because you could get Paul off of a pair of tens. If Paul has a hand like K-10, he would likely fold in that spot. Also, the worst my hand could be against any hand is about a 3-2 underdog.

I wouldn't say "any hand". If he had AdTd or any other suited hand with Td in it you were a 3 to 1 dog and a 4 to 1 dog against Td6d. The most likely would be that he had a set as he did. But, your statement is not accurate. There were several hands that you were quite the underdog to.I do not disagree with the play if it was later in the tourney. But, why so early? Why risk your tournament life on a big draw? I am confused.

[Lpyle04 0]

I can't even believe you guys are being serious, most likely the hand will be folded and DN wins the pot right there. He got unlucky and ran into a big hand. The statment that there are alot of hands he is a big dog to is accurate but the problem is that many of those hands also wouldn't call the all in there. I don't see how you guys get off telling a person who plays poker for a living what is wrong w/ thier game.... just doesn't make since to me

[speedz99 145]

I like it when amatuers tell Daniel that he made a bad play...especially when it was pretty standard.

[ThatPkrGuy 0]

Oh well rough day DN...still at the top of my list for best poker players

[ALL__DAY 0]

1) I am no amateur2) There is nothing standard about a professional risking his entire tournament on a draw...in an attempt to win a relatively small pot

[ALL__DAY 0]

Certainly not a terrible play... I just think a player of Daniel's caliber can find better spots...

[Lpyle04 0]

I just think it's really funny watching these guys who for the most part play 1-2nL at the very most make these posts that make no sense. I assume it's becuase they wouldn't lay down certain hands if a player raises you all in. A good player though doesn't call w/ anything less than a set or MAYBE a big pair (AA or KK) so in that case DN's play was perfect.... also saying "why take a risk like that early in the tourney" doesn't make sense, if a good player has a 2-1 chip advantage on the rest of his table he then has a HUGE advantage (granted in this situation most of the table was pros) Oh one more thing, i love the "KT has you crushed".... before we make stupid comments like this at least use the odds calculator if you can't figure them out yourself

[ALL__DAY 0]

How do you know the stakes these players are currently playing? That's right, you don't.You're correct. A good player doesn't usually call here with anything but 2 pair or better, but since that is exactly what Paul is representing, it is safe to assume there is a decent chance that DN will be called.Taking down this pot by Paul folding would not have given Daniel a 2-1 chip advantage. No one said "KT has you crushed"... Please stop the lying.

[Lpyle04 0]

Let's pretend for a minute you understand pokerLook at this without previously deciding you have to be right and everyone else here is stupid. One becuase you know nothing about me and 2 becuase if you aren't an amateur then you should know it's good to learn from other people (namely the pro who has a forum we talk on)Think about this hand, let's say that your correct in saying there is %50 he has 2 pr or better and %50 you take the pot there (even though that is not correct). Like DN stated before the WORST he can be is a 3-2 dog or about %33 to win (it was actually closer to %30 i beleive) with about 3,500 in the pot to play this hand to the river without raising here would cost the same amount (phillips stack) assuming his next bet will be around 3k. That being said it's either give up the hand here and fold or move all in. Moving all in prevents Paul from calling w/ hands like AT or JQ. If DN just calls and misses turn it's very hard to bet out and he can't call an all in. Pushing is actually a very good play becuase really the only hand Paul can call w/ is TT

[thebolb33 0]

There really is no other way to play a HUGE draw like DN had in a pot that already has chips in it. I think all of the "nay-sayers" need to realize that the fold equity that DN has is substantial as I believe PP folds AT, JJ, QQ, and possibly KK. This combined with the fact that he if does get called and he is a 40% dog (worst case) his price isn't far off. At a tough table like the one DN was at I believe, and I'm sure he believed it would be imperative to get off to a quick start and assert himself as the table captain. From what I've seen out of DN he plays his best in this sitatuation. It just boils down to one hell of a hand. Played well by all involved. Just didn't go DN's way. Hopefully next time.

[thebolb33 0]

Let's pretend for a minute you understand pokerLook at this without previously deciding you have to be right and everyone else here is stupid. One becuase you know nothing about me and 2 becuase if you aren't an amateur then you should know it's good to learn from other people (namely the pro who has a forum we talk on)Think about this hand, let's say that your correct in saying there is %50 he has 2 pr or better and %50 you take the pot there (even though that is not correct). Like DN stated before the WORST he can be is a 3-2 dog or  about %33 to win (it was actually closer to %30 i beleive) with about 3,500 in the pot to play this hand to the river without raising here would cost the same amount (phillips stack) assuming his next bet will be around 3k. That being said it's either give up the hand here and fold or move all in. Moving all in prevents Paul from calling w/ hands like AT or JQ. If DN just calls and misses turn it's very hard to bet out and he can't call an all in. Pushing is actually a very good play becuase really the only hand Paul can call w/ is TT

Paul COULD call with AA or maybe KK, but he couldn't have those hands because he certainly would've had to reraise preflop with DN and Phan in the pot. He also could call (in my mind with the following hands)... 99, 55, QdJd, AdTd, T9sNow does his raise on the flop mean he has one of these hands? Well, it could.. but DN can't know for sure and PP is tricky... Gotta push.