bad beats to profit!!!

[auspex 0]

I've posted numerous times about how most people lose in low limit loose games because they are weak tight.... I also hear a lot of people saying if I was in a better game I wouldn't lose so much. Lets take an example of "good playing"You get: A A Player A: 7 8 PLayer B: 9 2 Player C: 8 8 you Raiseplayer A foldPlayer B foldPlayer C callFlopK 6 10 You betplayer folds.Wow lots of action thereyou win blinds (assuming blinds folded to your raise) and two bets from your opponents.You may take more pots down, however your profit is VERY VERY low. Drawing at hands will kill you since no one else is, therefore you can't profit off them.If you have read ANY book most notably The Theory of Poker, you learn that you make money off people making MISTAKES! not correct plays. So thats fine if you would rather play in a game where people don't make mistakes, you will not profit in the long run.Which brings me to loose online games. You are going to get bad beats. read that line again. You must always raise your good hands, you must be aggressive. But also know when to switch gears! Also people who lose in these online games get frustrated and start to play hands out of position, cold calling two raises with marginal hands, just because they see everyone else doing it. I've heard the argument ohhh I don't do that I play AA and get beat. Well thats true, it will happen, you will also win with AA. Wether you lose AA to a runner runner or trips on the flop, it doesn't hold up all the time. Your pair is also NOT a good hand to play with more than 4 people. There are usually more than four people in each hand at these low limit games.. You must learn when and where to play hands in order to beat these games and not throw away bets.I suspect, as always , you are either a weak tight player, or do not know the value of the cards you are playing.....

[Socrates 0]

Two things here. 1. Why would he fold his pocket 8's so easily and 2. why would you lead out at that flop, no straight, no flush draw. May as well see if he wants to bet at the K, if he has it, all the more money for you. Betting here would seem to me that you are afraid of getting runner runner out drawn - if he's hit a set, oh well, he was going to play anyway. Folding that pair to a single bet after that flop is not necessarily good play, it's just really tight.

[TheIceman05 0]

Two things here. 1. Why would he fold his pocket 8's so easily and 2. why would you lead out at that flop, no straight, no flush draw. May as well see if he wants to bet at the K, if he has it, all the more money for you. Betting here would seem to me that you are afraid of getting runner runner out drawn - if he's hit a set, oh well, he was going to play anyway. Folding that pair to a single bet after that flop is not necessarily good play, it's just really tight.

Here's why you lead:If he's got any kind of hand, he'll let you know. If he's got KQ, or something like KJ0, there's a good chance he'll raise. And, there are plenty of hand that might encourage your average player to take one off for a small bet (open ended straight draw with JQ, middle pair with AT), but that he'd be more inclined to check if you don't bet. If he has NO hand, he might pick up a draw on the turn if you check and he checks behind you. What if he has Qs 90s? Ugh, you don't want this hand picking up another spade, do you? Giving free cards is weak poker. This is NOT a flop that you want to get tricky with. You raised preflop, so he's going to slow down no matter what. Don't be a donkey. Don't be too fancy.Ice

[KDawgCometh 2]

Two things here. 1. Why would he fold his pocket 8's so easily and 2. why would you lead out at that flop, no straight, no flush draw. May as well see if he wants to bet at the K, if he has it, all the more money for you. Betting here would seem to me that you are afraid of getting runner runner out drawn - if he's hit a set, oh well, he was going to play anyway. Folding that pair to a single bet after that flop is not necessarily good play, it's just really tight.

do youplay at party, cause I'd like to play you. Seriously I do, if you are gonna bet or raise every time you have a mid pair and two over cards come then I really want to play against you. If you don't pick up a set or a draw then there is no need to go on with this hand. The King and the ten would be two of the cards that they would most likely raise with. Guess what even if they raised with QJ they are still a favorite over your eights on the flop as they have 14 outs to hit twice

[auspex 0]

Two things here. 1. Why would he fold his pocket 8's so easily and 2. why would you lead out at that flop, no straight, no flush draw. May as well see if he wants to bet at the K, if he has it, all the more money for you. Betting here would seem to me that you are afraid of getting runner runner out drawn - if he's hit a set, oh well, he was going to play anyway. Folding that pair to a single bet after that flop is not necessarily good play, it's just really tight.

1) People complain about "bad" players, well since an over card flopped and there is no set...... these people would assume you would fold 8's and would likewise complain if you stayed in and turned an 8 .. why did he stay in? There was a K over card and I bet AA?!!?2) if you have top pair or an over pair it is NEVER EVER correct to just give a free card, that gives your opponent infinite odds at his draw, even if his draw is 88 drawing to trips. If you bet and he raises you can know to take it slower with the hand, you are pushing out draws and buying information.3) folding that pair is a good good play, as you have 3rd best pair, calling one bet to 2nd pair is generally correct, not calling a bet to 3rd best pair, when you are drawing to TWO outs, the other 8's.

[uahphysics 0]

I may be crazy here, but doesn't anyone else hate the fold of the 7c 8c, I mean, vs. an overpair, its 77-23, a little less than 3:1, whereas any underpair such as the 8s are 4:1....and vs. two overcards, its close to 60-40 or about 1.5;1....maybe I'm just inexperienced, but I'd call two bets to see a flop, and if you miss, you can get away from the hand on the flop and you lost maybe 1 or 2 bets, whereas you also have the chance for 4 to a flush or a straight draw....anyone think I'm crazy or stupid?

[auspex 0]

I may be crazy here, but doesn't anyone else hate the fold of the 7c 8c, I mean, vs. an overpair, its 77-23, a little less than 3:1, whereas any underpair such as the 8s are 4:1....and vs. two overcards, its close to 60-40 or about 1.5;1....maybe I'm just inexperienced, but I'd call two bets to see a flop, and if you miss, you can get away from the hand on the flop and you lost maybe 1 or 2 bets, whereas you also have the chance for 4 to a flush or a straight draw....anyone think I'm crazy or stupid?

Pot odds do not warrant a call for two bets.

[MrConceit 0]

I may be crazy here, but doesn't anyone else hate the fold of the 7c 8c, I mean, vs. an overpair, its 77-23, a little less than 3:1, whereas any underpair such as the 8s are 4:1....and vs. two overcards, its close to 60-40 or about 1.5;1....maybe I'm just inexperienced, but I'd call two bets to see a flop, and if you miss, you can get away from the hand on the flop and you lost maybe 1 or 2 bets, whereas you also have the chance for 4 to a flush or a straight draw....anyone think I'm crazy or stupid?

I think you're unexperienced, I wouldn't say crazy or stupid yet. You want to call an early raised 2 cold with nobody else in the pot with 87 suited? Your best case senario will likely be the 60-40, but you have to understand something also. That odd is the cards are dealt to the river. Are you going to be calling bets with bottom or second pair if an A, K, or Q flops? Are you going to stay around for a backdoor flush or straight draw? Calling 2 cold before the river doesn't entitle you to see the river for free from this point on unless you only had 2 small bets at the table.It's just a really bad idea to make that call. Trust me. And I _love_ suited connectors and somewhat overplay them. But not just you vs the raiser.Now if you were like C in this example and first guy raises, 2 people coldcall 2, THEN you have some validity to call 2 cold yourself. Especially if you thought the blinds would play. It might not be best, but it's a lot better situation than having you vs the raiser HU with only the 1.5 sb in the pot before the raise and your coldcall.Btw if you were saying your post as a joke, sorry I responded.

[UglyJimStudly 0]

If you have read ANY book most notably The Theory of Poker, you learn that you make money off people making MISTAKES! not correct plays. So thats fine if you would rather play in a game where people don't make mistakes, you will not profit in the long run.

Yeah, that's a key element of poker that a lot of folks just don't seem to grasp. If ten equally skilled people sit down to play poker at a raked table, then the only long-term winner is the house; stacks will fluctuate, but there's no net transfer of money. You need bad players in the mix for anyone to make any money. And IMHO, the more, the better.Gary Carson has a nice discussion of this in one of his books. He tried running some computer simulations (using Wilson Software's programs, I believe) in which a table consisted of one very good player, one mediocre player, and 8 bad players. The very good player made a killing, and the mediocre player did almost as well; the guys donating the money were the bad players. That matches my experience pretty well, when I have a big night all my chips come from the bad players.

[uahphysics 0]

I may be crazy here, but doesn't anyone else hate the fold of the 7c 8c, I mean, vs. an overpair, its 77-23, a little less than 3:1, whereas any underpair such as the 8s are 4:1....and vs. two overcards, its close to 60-40 or about 1.5;1....maybe I'm just inexperienced, but I'd call two bets to see a flop, and if you miss, you can get away from the hand on the flop and you lost maybe 1 or 2 bets, whereas you also have the chance for 4 to a flush or a straight draw....anyone think I'm crazy or stupid?

I think you're unexperienced, I wouldn't say crazy or stupid yet. You want to call an early raised 2 cold with nobody else in the pot with 87 suited? Your best case senario will likely be the 60-40, but you have to understand something also. That odd is the cards are dealt to the river. Are you going to be calling bets with bottom or second pair if an A, K, or Q flops? Are you going to stay around for a backdoor flush or straight draw? Calling 2 cold before the river doesn't entitle you to see the river for free from this point on unless you only had 2 small bets at the table.It's just a really bad idea to make that call. Trust me. And I _love_ suited connectors and somewhat overplay them. But not just you vs the raiser.Now if you were like C in this example and first guy raises, 2 people coldcall 2, THEN you have some validity to call 2 cold yourself. Especially if you thought the blinds would play. It might not be best, but it's a lot better situation than having you vs the raiser HU with only the 1.5 sb in the pot before the raise and your coldcall.Btw if you were saying your post as a joke, sorry I responded.

No, it wasn't a joke, but you are right. For this situation, I didn't look at it enough and realize that Player A with the 78s was first to act after the raise, with two more players behind me, I wouldn't have made the call, but when I made my post, I was just talking strictly from odds and percentages. BTW, I'm only 18 so I am pretty inexperienced and have a lot to learn