i'm a horrible (online) poker player..

[kcb 0]

I put the "online" in parenthesis because I may in fact be just a horrible poker player in general.I've been playing live poker competitively for over a year and online poker for 5 months. I would classify myself as a winning live poker player, but I don't really know because I only play in 10 or 20 dollar homegames and haven't really tested myself at a casino yet. In the homegames, out of 10 games I'll cash (at least get 3rd) in 7 of them. Still, I usually play with the same guys over and over again, so I may just be getting better at playing against those guys and not poker in general.In online play, there is no question: I'm horrible and a losing player. Sure, I have my upswings, but I usually give it all back within a few days. Whether it's limit, no limit cash games, or sit and gos, the results are usually always simliar. I get beat and then think of some way of how it isn't my fault."Oh man, that guy got lucky on the river..""Sheesh, that guy plays any two cards.. What a bad player.."But what it amounts to is, me not being good enough to rise above the suspect play of others to win myself. Instead of the fish and donkeys giving me their money, it's me, the guy that thinks he is the best at the table, giving them his money by being horrible after the flop. I've done things to try to improve my overall play, but especially my online play. I've read HoH 1, Caro's Book of Poker Tells, Play Like a Pro by Helmuth, and Doyal Brunson's Super Systems. My live play has increased tremendously, but I'm stuck when it comes to online. I'm thinking about just starting over. I've bought 3 books on online hold 'em and they're on their way. I think I'm just going to read them and then start my bankroll over from 50 dollars and set some new goals. I'm going to really work my online game as much as possible, because I really want to be a winning player and not one that increases someone elses bankroll, but a player that is able to increase his own.Any thoughts? Advice? Sorry, I know this is a long read, but I just needed to come clean I guess. I'm hoping that putting this in text will start the process of getting better.

[Stylin_Fish 0]

I put the "online" in parenthesis because I may in fact be just a horrible poker player in general.I've been playing live poker competitively for over a year and online poker for 5 months. I would classify myself as a winning live poker player, but I don't really know because I only play in 10 or 20 dollar homegames and haven't really tested myself at a casino yet. In the homegames, out of 10 games I'll cash (at least get 3rd) in 7 of them. Still, I usually play with the same guys over and over again, so I may just be getting better at playing against those guys and not poker in general.In online play, there is no question: I'm horrible and a losing player. Sure, I have my upswings, but I usually give it all back within a few days. Whether it's limit, no limit cash games, or sit and gos, the results are usually always simliar. I get beat and then think of some way of how it isn't my fault."Oh man, that guy got lucky on the river..""Sheesh, that guy plays any two cards.. What a bad player.."But what it amounts to is, me not being good enough to rise above the suspect play of others to win myself. Instead of the fish and donkeys giving me their money, it's me, the guy that thinks he is the best at the table, giving them his money by being horrible after the flop. I've done things to try to improve my overall play, but especially my online play. I've read HoH 1, Caro's Book of Poker Tells, Play Like a Pro by Helmuth, and Doyal Brunson's Super Systems. My live play has increased tremendously, but I'm stuck when it comes to online. I'm thinking about just starting over. I've bought 3 books on online hold 'em and they're on their way. I think I'm just going to read them and then start my bankroll over from 50 dollars and set some new goals. I'm going to really work my online game as much as possible, because I really want to be a winning player and not one that increases someone elses bankroll, but a player that is able to increase his own.Any thoughts? Advice? Sorry, I know this is a long read, but I just needed to come clean I guess. I'm hoping that putting this in text will start the process of getting better.

I am in the same boat as you. I have cashed and won numerous SNGs and I "usually" tear up my home game, I've cashed in a fair amount of live and online poker tournaments but I have yet to make a final table in either(Well i got 2nd in a 30 man tournament, but I don't count that). Overall I am up in poker, but Im so sick and tired of not even getting to final tables and am fed up with not winning.

[HoosierAlum 0]

I put the "online" in parenthesis because I may in fact be just a horrible poker player in general.I've been playing live poker competitively for over a year and online poker for 5 months. I would classify myself as a winning live poker player, but I don't really know because I only play in 10 or 20 dollar homegames and haven't really tested myself at a casino yet. In the homegames, out of 10 games I'll cash (at least get 3rd) in 7 of them. Still, I usually play with the same guys over and over again, so I may just be getting better at playing against those guys and not poker in general.In online play, there is no question: I'm horrible and a losing player. Sure, I have my upswings, but I usually give it all back within a few days. Whether it's limit, no limit cash games, or sit and gos, the results are usually always simliar. I get beat and then think of some way of how it isn't my fault."Oh man, that guy got lucky on the river..""Sheesh, that guy plays any two cards.. What a bad player.."But what it amounts to is, me not being good enough to rise above the suspect play of others to win myself. Instead of the fish and donkeys giving me their money, it's me, the guy that thinks he is the best at the table, giving them his money by being horrible after the flop. I've done things to try to improve my overall play, but especially my online play. I've read HoH 1, Caro's Book of Poker Tells, Play Like a Pro by Helmuth, and Doyal Brunson's Super Systems. My live play has increased tremendously, but I'm stuck when it comes to online. I'm thinking about just starting over. I've bought 3 books on online hold 'em and they're on their way. I think I'm just going to read them and then start my bankroll over from 50 dollars and set some new goals. I'm going to really work my online game as much as possible, because I really want to be a winning player and not one that increases someone elses bankroll, but a player that is able to increase his own.Any thoughts? Advice? Sorry, I know this is a long read, but I just needed to come clean I guess. I'm hoping that putting this in text will start the process of getting better.

I am in the same boat as you. I have cashed and won numerous SNGs and I "usually" tear up my home game, I've cashed in a fair amount of live and online poker tournaments but I have yet to make a final table in either. Overall I am up in poker, but Im so sick and tired of not even getting to final tables and am fed up with not winning.

I'll tutor you for a fee

[owise1 0]

Read Sklansky!Then, read it again. The Theory of poker, Hold'em Poker, Tournament poker. Try to concentrate in one area first, it is hard to get better when you are playing limit & no limit cash games & tournaments. Take care,owise1

[Don Giovanni 0]

you are a losing player period. beating a few freinds in a low stakes home game does not make you a winning live player. now that thats out of the way, i would recomend playing the micro limits on any online site. play the lowest stakes they offer. get small stakes holdem by sklansky and read it until you understand everything. (its a book made for limit, and you might as well start playing limit) then post some hands in the new micro limit section of the forum. at least read it if you dont feel like posting hands.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

KCB... I really believe to my core that playing winning poker at low stakes is not difficult.The only problem is it's really easy to get bad habits and set yourself thinking the wrong way.Playing poker well is all about thinking correctly and making the best decisions. It's not about memorizing charts and tables.Post hands. Learn from them. Ask questions. We'll be here to help.

[Socko669 0]

Go play at party poker. If you can't beat the low stakes ring games there, then you have a lot a lot of learning to do. If you are a solid player and play enough hands the donks will still draw out on you, but it will be dwarfed by the times they pay you off.

[steve7stud 0]

I can't believe I'm saying this, because I haven't read the book. But I believe it's called Small Stakes Hold Em, or something to that affect by Miller. People on this forum seem to love the book. I'm sure someone will give more info. Good Luck.

[acesfullmike 0]

1.Read sshe and top2. reread sshe and top3. get pokertracker4. play partypoker .5/1 tables or lower if that makes you comfortable5. after 10k hands, analyze your stats against these numbershttp://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthre...w=&sb=5&o=&vc=1these numbers are not perfect or anything, but they give you an idea of where you should be. different players are able to play different hands in multiple ways with profitable outcomes. 6. reread top and sshe now that you have some experience, think about hands you have played and if you did the opposite from what the authors said to do.7. post troublesome hands and situations in the strategy forum, listen to the advice, but ask more detailed questions to understand the concept.8. play sober and when you feel you are at your best9. minimize tilt. if you are gonna lose it, get out of your normal limits and go nutbar the .02/.04 table, i mean you cap everything and anything even if you know for a fact that you are drawing dead on the flop. blow about 5 bucks there and you will feel much better.10. bankroll management, learn it, live it, love it or you will be broke. a world class pro can sit down at the lowest limits with 50BB and go bust, variance sucks that way. and the bonus number 11. Never openfarrell. feel free to add or subtract to this, but this the best advice that i could possibly give i feel.

[kcb 0]

I don't know what openfarrell means...

[Royal_Tour 0]

KCB,I assume your home games are No limit holdem games.I which case you probably play No limit online also?You've read a few books, SSHE is a good book, mostly used for limit.I think you've done 1 thing correct thus far, and thats join FCP, the strat section is great. Post hands and we can comment.Also, couple quick questions, while playing online, what is your flop %? this is the percentage of times that you pay to see a flop.U really want to keep this low, 17% - 22%, in a full ring game, a bit higher at short handed games.Keeping this low wil help tell yourself to fold 10,Q from middle position, and so on.Casino play and online play are very different, so dont sweat the fact that you've never been to a casino.If you have questions, or other info, let us know. Good luck

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I don't know what openfarrell means...

It's a joke."Open Farrelling" means when you're first to act on a betting street, you fold when it's free to check.The name comes from our own banned poster JFarrell20, whose other brilliant ideas have been bumped in the general strategy section. They now exist solely for comedic value... and they get bumped from time to time when someone needs a good laugh. Lately they got bumped to fill in the noobs who've been deprived of the joy of Open Farrelling.Other jokes you might come across by spending any amount of time here are tinfoil hats and pattern mappers. It's high comedy in the ol' FCP crowd.

[RuffRidr 0]

I've been playing live poker competitively for over a year and online poker for 5 months. I would classify myself as a winning live poker player, but I don't really know because I only play in 10 or 20 dollar homegames and haven't really tested myself at a casino yet. In the homegames, out of 10 games I'll cash (at least get 3rd) in 7 of them. Still, I usually play with the same guys over and over again, so I may just be getting better at playing against those guys and not poker in general.

I think 10 games is too small of a sample to gain any meaningful info. How many players does your homegame usually have? What is your opinion of the other players play? What is the makeup of your homegames, ie. do most people play tight or loose?When you play online, do you play ring games or SNG/MTT's? If you play tournies, what is the normal result? Do you bust out early, or do you bubble out?You say you've read HOH1. Do you follow his teachings pretty closely?--RuffRidr

[kcb 0]

I've been playing live poker competitively for over a year and online poker for 5 months. I would classify myself as a winning live poker player, but I don't really know because I only play in 10 or 20 dollar homegames and haven't really tested myself at a casino yet. In the homegames, out of 10 games I'll cash (at least get 3rd) in 7 of them. Still, I usually play with the same guys over and over again, so I may just be getting better at playing against those guys and not poker in general.

I think 10 games is too small of a sample to gain any meaningful info. How many players does your homegame usually have? What is your opinion of the other players play? What is the makeup of your homegames, ie. do most people play tight or loose?When you play online, do you play ring games or SNG/MTT's? If you play tournies, what is the normal result? Do you bust out early, or do you bubble out?You say you've read HOH1. Do you follow his teachings pretty closely?--RuffRidr

I didn't say I've only played 10 homegames.. I was just trying to give you a statistic so you guys could guage how well I did in these homegames..I used to only play the 5 +.50 SnG's at stars, but lately I've really wanted to learn how to play cash games online. I'm a decent SnG player, I guess. I don't ever bust out early, unless something freak happens.. I bubble my fair share, but I also win a lot, too.. Every now and again, I hop up to the 10 + 1 dollar SnG's and I do well there, too.. The 20 dollar SnG games are where I start to lose it.I would say I follow what Harrington writes pretty closely. It's obvious that I need to go back and reread some of his stuff, though. I would classify myself as a tight aggressive player and I usually always calculate the odds, unless I'm just sitting down to blow off some steam. I play only the top 8 or 10 hands and try to utilize my position the best I can. I'm just not very experienced, I think and that's my problem. I think that since I've been playing for over a year that I should be at this certain level that is unreasonable.

[kcb 0]

KCB,I assume your home games are No limit holdem games.I which case you probably play No limit online also?You've read a few books, SSHE is a good book, mostly used for limit.I think you've done 1 thing correct thus far, and thats join FCP, the strat section is great. Post hands and we can comment.Also, couple quick questions, while playing online, what is your flop %? this is the percentage of times that you pay to see a flop.U really want to keep this low, 17% - 22%, in a full ring game, a bit higher at short handed games.Keeping this low wil help tell yourself to fold 10,Q from middle position, and so on.Casino play and online play are very different, so dont sweat the fact that you've never been to a casino.If you have questions, or other info, let us know. Good luck

Yes, NL tourneys. And yeah, I play the no-limit SnG's online and the .25/.5 limit tables on PStars.And I did order SSHE along with two other books.. I'm excited about it, because I know I'm going to be reading a lot of new things that will help me in the long run.As far as how often I see the flop, as I've mentioned in my previous post, I only play the top 8 or 10 starting hands and if I'm in position and have the odds, I'll limp with suited connectors and A/x suited. So I usually only see the flop once every few orbits, I would say.Thanks for the positive feecback, though.. I really like these forums and did join because I was looking for a place with intelligent discussion that I could learn from. I lucked out to find this place.

[econ_tim 0]

Hi KCB,Welcome to the forums. It sounds like your game of choice is NL. You should play the $25 NL game at Party Poker (or play other sites at lower stakes) for a few thousand hands. Keep good records (software like PokerTracker helps) so you can see if you're winning. Post hands and ask questions in the no limit forum.Maybe $25 isn't exciting for you. But you'll have to learn discipline that you'll need as you move to higher stakes. You'll be folding a lot preflop. You'll be folding a lot on the flop. But eventually you'll be winning.TJ is right that small stakes online games are easy to beat. You just need the right information and discipline to do it. Good luck.

[Ebonwoulfe 0]

You try to warn him of the joys of FCP and you don't even mention the krablar or nutbar. Krablar:http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...opic.php?t=7967Nutbar:http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...d=12235&m_id=21Has anyone mentioned to get PokerTracker? Sure it's ~$50, but any serious player will tell you that it pays for itself in no time.www.pokertracker.com

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

No books can teach you discipline, intelligience, patience, and the ability to handle down swing.Good luck.

[mb5322 0]

I put the "online" in parenthesis because I may in fact be just a horrible poker player in general.I've been playing live poker competitively for over a year and online poker for 5 months. I would classify myself as a winning live poker player' date=' but I don't really know because I only play in 10 or 20 dollar homegames and haven't really tested myself at a casino yet. In the homegames, out of 10 games I'll cash (at least get 3rd) in 7 of them. Still, I usually play with the same guys over and over again, so I may just be getting better at playing against those guys and not poker in general.In online play, there is no question: I'm horrible and a losing player. Sure, I have my upswings, but I usually give it all back within a few days. Whether it's limit, no limit cash games, or sit and gos, the results are usually always simliar. I get beat and then think of some way of how it isn't my fault."Oh man, that guy got lucky on the river..""Sheesh, that guy plays any two cards.. What a bad player.."But what it amounts to is, me not being good enough to rise above the suspect play of others to win myself. Instead of the fish and donkeys giving me their money, it's me, the guy that thinks he is the best at the table, giving them his money by being horrible after the flop. I've done things to try to improve my overall play, but especially my online play. I've read HoH 1, Caro's Book of Poker Tells, Play Like a Pro by Helmuth, and [b']Doyle[/b] Brunson's Super Systems. My live play has increased tremendously, but I'm stuck when it comes to online. I'm thinking about just starting over. I've bought 3 books on online hold 'em and they're on their way. I think I'm just going to read them and then start my bankroll over from 50 dollars and set some new goals. I'm going to really work my online game as much as possible, because I really want to be a winning player and not one that increases someone elses bankroll, but a player that is able to increase his own.Any thoughts? Advice? Sorry, I know this is a long read, but I just needed to come clean I guess. I'm hoping that putting this in text will start the process of getting betterFYP

[econ_tim 0]

FYP

Worst FYP ever.You quote all 500 words from the OP just to fix the spelling of "Doyle" and don't even close the tags?o/10

[mb5322 0]

FYP

Best FYP ever.You quote all 500 words from the OP just to fix the spelling of "Doyle" and don't even close the tags?10/10

FYP

[kcb 0]

I'm not even sure what FYP means..

[acesfullmike 0]

No books can teach you discipline, intelligience, patience, and the ability to handle down swing.Good luck.

this stuff too, whoops. and FYP means fixed your post.

[bleacherbum3 9]

You try to warn him of the joys of FCP and you don't even mention the krablar or nutbar. Krablar:http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...opic.php?t=7967Nutbar:http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...d=12235&m_id=21Has anyone mentioned to get PokerTracker? Sure it's ~$50, but any serious player will tell you that it pays for itself in no time.www.pokertracker.com

Entertaining read, but if we're trying to help someone get better, I don't think we should encourage raising with K3.

[Fullhouse7 0]

I posted elsewhere, but watch video because it pertains to your present predicament: http://www.pokerbustouts.com/content.php Not intending to be too pessimistic, but know a balanced view of poker. And, yes, there are many winners but IT IS A GRIND.Fullhouse7 :wall: