ldudeus 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 yea only 2 bracelets, wow this guy sucksand numerous onther final tables...man, he really sucksconstantly outplaying everyone at the table......well, now he officially just blows****ing dammiti dont see how anyone can critisize a top pro's playing abilityHOW DO U THINK THEY BECAME A TOP PRO!!?? HUH?????they ****ing rape everyone around them at poker thats howsomeone whgo plays 25/50 cent blinds is critisizing others who play at $1000/2000 blinds and higher, yea, makes a lot of senseWOW :roll: Link to post Share on other sites
reedmcneal 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 He made a few final tables and won two bracelets. Are people great for merely making it to the biggest stage or winning on it? Last time i checked it was the people who win who are great, not the people who make it to the final table and lose out in ninth place bad luck or not.Yeah, I'd take Varkonyi (spelling?) or Moneymaker over Matasow. They're far greater players. Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The fact that he can get almost anybody to stake him to play poker means he is a great player. Link to post Share on other sites
sirch1 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 i said i have played 10. 25 cent no limit but now play 20/40 there is a big difference. oh and i have the right to criticize anybody who acts like a jackass and isnt a deserving of the credit he he recieves. Link to post Share on other sites
PFunk 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 i said i have played 10. 25 cent no limit but now play 20/40 there is a big difference. oh and i have the right to criticize anybody who acts like a jackass and isnt a deserving of the credit he he recieves.Explain....Why does he deserve no credit? you really think he is that bad of a player?...honestly?Or do you just not like the guy-P. Link to post Share on other sites
Painter567 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The fact that he can get almost anybody to stake him to play poker means he is a great player.Stylin,Change the Avatar in order to root him on? Link to post Share on other sites
sirch1 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 He made a few final tables and won two bracelets. Are people great for merely making it to the biggest stage or winning on it? Last time i checked it was the people who win who are great, not the people who make it to the final table and lose out in ninth place bad luck or not.Yeah, I'd take Varkonyi (spelling?) or Moneymaker over Matasow. They're far greater players.Would you take Raymer if you were smart you would say yes. Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The fact that he can get almost anybody to stake him to play poker means he is a great player.Stylin,Change the Avatar in order to root him on?No, I've always been a big fan of his and seeing some of the stuff that happened made me even a bigger fan. I saw this and decided to use it.Oh, did you know i was at the WSOP Me and tried to get a high five from matusow when he was eliminated and he totally left me hanging?!?!?! Link to post Share on other sites
Painter567 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The fact that he can get almost anybody to stake him to play poker means he is a great player.Stylin,Change the Avatar in order to root him on?No, I've always been a big fan of his and seeing some of the stuff that happened made me even a bigger fan. I saw this and decided to use it.Oh, did you know i was at the WSOP Me and tried to get a high five from matusow when he was eliminated and he totally left me hanging?!?!?! Sweet, When he gets eliminated, maybe we will get to see you on TV :wink: Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The fact that he can get almost anybody to stake him to play poker means he is a great player.Stylin,Change the Avatar in order to root him on?No, I've always been a big fan of his and seeing some of the stuff that happened made me even a bigger fan. I saw this and decided to use it.Oh, did you know i was at the WSOP Me and tried to get a high five from matusow when he was eliminated and he totally left me hanging?!?!?! Sweet, When he gets eliminated, maybe we will get to see you on TV :wink:Maybe!!! I shoulda been on T.V. earlier because he was walking around(i don't remember what day it was) and he started walking over my way(I was standing on the feature table bleachers looking out at the field) and I said "GO MIKE!!!!!" and pumped my fist. He looked at me and pumped his fist and said "I gotta lotta chips now!!!" Link to post Share on other sites
blueodum 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Sure, who wouldn't want to have 9 bracelets, or two for that matter like Matusow (BTW Sirch, how many do you have?).The basic point is that having a lot of bracelets does not necessarily make you a great POKER player. Todd Brunson made this point at the WSOP this year.Great POKER player means great in tourneys, great at cash games, and great at different forms of poker. Most of all, it means being regarded by your PEERS as a great poker player. I'm sorry, Hellmuth just isn't a great POKER player. But when I point out that basic truth, all I hear from the Hellmuthians is talk about bracelets.Basically, there isn't anyone other than Phil who goes around describing himself as a great poker player. Phil Ivey doesn't; Chip Reese doesn't; Doyle Brunson doesn't. They let OTHER people say it. That's why Phil is the target of ridicule, and rightly so. Link to post Share on other sites
StrippersNBlow 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 So he's not a skilled pro because he makes good reads and outplays people after the flop? He doesn't have as many bracelets as Doyle or Chan so he's not a top pro? You can't talk smack at a table and have fun unless you're one of the top ten(of which everyone's ranking are different btw) in the world? It's fine to not like the guy, but to question his playing ability is absurd. NL tournaments are about accumulating chips. If you're not getting cards, there's no other way to do this but to make moves. He ran people over and earned his chips. God bless epsn and god bless a Matusow bluff. They only make collecting money easier.yes no limit strategy is about accumulating masses of chips and whne you arent geting cards you still have to play. There is a major flaw with his tournament strategy now becuase although he might get deep in tournaments he never wins. His reckless style always stops him short of taking it home. Wow you ran good for a few days and had a huge amount of chips thne you censored it away on censored cards and bad calls. That proves your greatness.He never wins? I guess someone who HAS won traded him their 2 bracelets for coke. I would say there's 5610 people who wish their game was as "flawed" as his right now. I really hope you're just being devil's advocate here, and don't actually believe the drivel that's coming out of your mouth. Link to post Share on other sites
PFunk 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 He never wins? Confirmed:Best name on this site Link to post Share on other sites
StrippersNBlow 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 He never wins? Confirmed:Best name on this site I'm picking up where Mike left off :twisted: Link to post Share on other sites
fopkins 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 blueodum is a donk imho.Anyone who is questioning the tournament skill of someone with 9 WSOP bracelets seriously needs an intelligence evaluation.Nuff said from me.-fop Link to post Share on other sites
Stylin_Fish 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 OP is a donk imho.Anyone who is questioning the tournamentp/b] skill of someone with 9 WSOP bracelets seriously needs an intelligence evaluation.Nuff said from me.-fop I believe he is questioning Mike Matusow not Phil Hellmuth. Link to post Share on other sites
PFunk 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 OP is a donk imho.Anyone who is questioning the tournamentp/b] skill of someone with 9 WSOP bracelets seriously needs an intelligence evaluation.Nuff said from me.-fop I believe he is questioning Mike Matusow not Phil Hellmuth. Either way, really- Link to post Share on other sites
fopkins 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Oops.. I meant blueodum, not the op.But yeah, either way I guess.-fop Link to post Share on other sites
blueodum 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 fopkins wrote:blueodum is a donk imho.Anyone who is questioning the tournament skill of someone with 9 WSOP bracelets seriously needs an intelligence evaluation.Nuff said from me.Thank you for your cogent counterarguments. I guess Daniel Negreanu is a donk too, because he thinks that Hellmuth MIGHT be in the top 60 in NLHE tournaments, at the present time. Maybe you should e-mail Daniel and let him know where he can get an "intelligence evaluation" (you can CC Paul Phillips while you're at it).But you're right about one thing: the "Nuff said from me" part. Link to post Share on other sites
fopkins 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Hey, I'd make a great long post about why Hellmuth is definitely one of the top 10 (at least) HE tournament players in the world.. but it's already been made before in this post, and a hundred more times on this forum.It would be a waste of time.But hey, if you think he sucks.. go try to cash as much as he does, and win as many tournaments/bracelets that he does. Good luck.EDIT:Hey, great job editing your post after I reply to it. Real cool. 1) Point me to where DN says PH "MIGHT be one of the top 60"?2) Even if DN did say that, do you even realize how good "top 60" is?3) I guess it is time to bring up some "cogent counterarguments". 9 bracelets, so I've heard. But none the last 2 years and none in non HE games.Ok? Let's take a look at some of his statistics:WSOP Bracelets: 9WSOP All time $ Winner: Top 5-10 (Extremely impressive if you include the fact that he has only taken down ONE $500K prize in one WSOP tournament.. and even that one was "only" around $750K)All time $ Winner: 5th (I can almost stop right here...)Estimated total amount won from logged tournaments: $5,155,628 (petty change, right?...)And just for you.. Number of WSOP cashes in games other than NLHE (includes limit, pot limit): >30.Number of WSOP cashes in games other than holdem: 20.Number of WSOP Final tables in non-holdem games: 12.You were saying?-fopPS: All statistics taken from hendon mob. Link to post Share on other sites
blueodum 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I think you need an intelligence evaluation if you think "he is not a great POKER player" (which is what I wrote) means the same thing as "he sucks at NLHE tournaments" (which is your interpretation). Link to post Share on other sites
Mikeh77 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 blueodum is a donk imho.Anyone who is questioning the tournament skill of someone with 9 WSOP bracelets seriously needs an intelligence evaluation.Nuff said from me.-fopThat include Daniel? He said Phil MIGHT be in the top 60 NL Tourney players out there today.....MIGHT BE...Considering Daniels success lately id hate to see where he would place if that is the criteria. Link to post Share on other sites
dpianomn 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 to the OP-have you ever stopped to think that perhaps mike's table personality is designed to tilt the other players, and maybe even scare them a bit? i don't use this style myself, but many people do, and some are successful with it (mike!). Link to post Share on other sites
blueodum 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Mikeh,You know what Daniel's criteria is? He's sat for hours at the table with Phil Hellmuth and he talks to dozens of others who have done likewise.So while my opinion, your opinion and the rest of your fellow Hellmuthians' opinions doesn't mean squat - his means a whole lot. Link to post Share on other sites
belikesteve 0 Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Ask any pro about Mike's Skill and you'll learn a lot....You Can be considered a great player without coin flip luck and goofy glasses Link to post Share on other sites
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