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[MikePatrick 0]

:roll: Harry, whatever issues you have with Phil...I suggest maybe you take them up with him..because we cant help you. I mean if hes rude to you or whatever..then take it up with him. Or if you think he sucks then tell him so, but what I hate is people like you, well maybe not you because I dont know much about you other that the few times youve made tv, and Daniel who talk sh-t about Phil behind his back and then are nice to him to his face.Whereas whenever you see Phil do interviews away from the table on his peers (even those who have bad mouthed him) he is 9 times out of 10 resepectfull and complimentary.A Clairification:My only problem...besides your opinion of Hellmuths current skills, i mean its obvious hes still got world class game, your personal feelings i think are clouding your judgement.....my only problem was you liking Mike giving it to Phil because maybe the TOC letting him in when he shouldnt have been there....if so thats wrong....If you just hate Hellmuth and like him getting his balls broke...then thats ok..thats your opionion.(SW)

FYP

[AgroPoker 0]

:roll: Harry, whatever issues you have with Phil...I suggest maybe you take them up with him..because we cant help you. I mean if hes rude to you or whatever..then take it up with him. Or if you think he sucks then tell him so, but what I hate is people like you, well maybe not you because I dont know much about you other that the few times youve made tv, and Daniel who talk sh-t about Phil behind his back and then are nice to him to his face.Whereas whenever you see Phil do interviews away from the table on his peers (even those who have bad mouthed him) he is 9 times out of 10 resepectfull and complimentary.A Clairification:My only problem...besides your opinion of Hellmuths current skills, i mean its obvious hes still got world class game, your personal feelings i think are clouding your judgement.....my only problem was you liking Mike giving it to Phil because maybe the TOC letting him in when he shouldnt have been there....if so thats wrong....If you just hate Hellmuth and like him getting his balls broke...then thats ok..thats your opionion.

Wow I didn’t get that at all from his post.He just said he doesn’t like his table image.And why bring DN into this, he has stated on this forum several time he likes PH very much.He just believes he is easy money at the cash games I don’t think that is talking behind there backs.

[AgroPoker 0]

And before anyone asks...yes he is a better all around player than me but I very much doubt he can outplay me at NL, Pot or Limit holdem and welcome sitting down at the same table as him as I consider taking chips off him to be a relatively easy task.NL, Pot or Limit Holdem are his main games? How can he be better overall and inferior in these games?And I am sorry for sounding rude here because I respect you Harry, but yeah whatever Phil may be he doesn't talk behind people's back.

He meant better than himself overallMeaning Harry feels he is better than PH at HEBut PH is better at then Harry at other games Doesn’t mean HE is not PH best game

[mark33f 0]

OK, but I don't know...Phil vs. Harry in all forms of hold'em? I mean no offense Phil has accomplished light years more than Harry all in hold'em.Is Harry a dominate cash player or something that I don't know??I would take Phil in an all holdem series...

[Mikeh77 0]

:roll: Harry, whatever issues you have with Phil...I suggest maybe you take them up with him..because we cant help you. I mean if hes rude to you or whatever..then take it up with him. Or if you think he sucks then tell him so, but what I hate is people like you, well maybe not you because I dont know much about you other that the few times youve made tv, and Daniel who talk sh-t about Phil behind his back and then are nice to him to his face.Whereas whenever you see Phil do interviews away from the table on his peers (even those who have bad mouthed him) he is 9 times out of 10 resepectfull and complimentary.A Clairification:My only problem...besides your opinion of Hellmuths current skills, i mean its obvious hes still got world class game, your personal feelings i think are clouding your judgement.....my only problem was you liking Mike giving it to Phil because maybe the TOC letting him in when he shouldnt have been there....if so thats wrong....If you just hate Hellmuth and like him getting his balls broke...then thats ok..thats your opionion.

Wow I didn’t get that at all from his post.He just said he doesn’t like his table image.And why bring DN into this, he has stated on this forum several time he likes PH very much.He just believes he is easy money at the cash games I don’t think that is talking behind there backs.

The cash game thing is his opinion..Daniel plays cash games he would know better than anyone how Phil plays agianst the top cash game players in the world...WHAT IM talking about is his post in the "Why is Phil a fish" thread where daniel thrashes him talking about how he MIGHT be in the top 60 NL tourney players in the world today currenty.And how he used to be great and that his style is outdated and isnt effective blah blah blah...I mean its ok to be critical of someones play but is that really HONEST criticism? Might be in the top 60....in NL tourneys?I like Daniel too but wtf is he smoking and can I have some.

[doublemeup 0]

OK, but I don't know...Phil vs. Harry in all forms of hold'em? I mean no offense Phil has accomplished light years more than Harry all in hold'em.Is Harry a dominate cash player or something that I don't know??I would take Phil in an all holdem series...

i would take phil against any player in the world in hold'em except for the players in the "big game."

[Mikeh77 0]

OK, but I don't know...Phil vs. Harry in all forms of hold'em? I mean no offense Phil has accomplished light years more than Harry all in hold'em.Is Harry a dominate cash player or something that I don't know??I would take Phil in an all holdem series...

i would take phil against any player in the world in hold'em except for the players in the "big game."

Please...according to Daniel there are 59...or more others that are better at Holdem than Philly :shock:

[HarryDemetriou 0]

I have absolutely no issues with PH and have told him what I think of his antics to his face. In fact I asked him once whether he thought his antics could lead to someone smashing a chair over his head and that if it ever happened the TV companies would love it. His interpretation of what I was saying was that he thought I was threateneing to smash a chair over his head but I can't help it if he doesn't listen.Furthermore Its hardly saying something behind someones back when I post under my real name.It would also be difficult for him to insult his peers (peers = equals) but he is VERY derogatory to inexperienced players and those he considers to be inferior players and particularly interent players.Having said all that I have often defended him on certain issues (and I believ I have done so on this very forum) and I have always seen him behave impecably towards poker fans but can't help speaking my mind about him here and now because personally I feel he has a lot to learn in the manners department.You don't have to believe or like what I have to say but it's my honest views and for that I will not apologise......and just to show you that not eveyone in the poker world agrees with me...Layne Flack defends PH by saying that most people do not understand him and the reason for his antics is down to him taking so much pride in his game.But I feel you misunderstood my post.I merely stated that I enjoyed seeing Mike Matusow needling him verbally and was delighted to see him having to take his own medicine for a change as to put it frankly at the tables he is often a not very nice person.Away from the tables he is slightly arrogant but essentially a nice person.As for his abilities I stand by my assessment of him in that he has cost backers in the past a LOT of money and I do not believe he is a positive equity cash or tournament player in the modern day game. However should he win this by default I may have to change my mind;-)

[mark33f 0]

OK missunderstanding and I apologize for what I said kinda brashly...Now you vs. Phil in a hold'em series...How about it ?

[AgroPoker 0]

:roll: Harry, whatever issues you have with Phil...I suggest maybe you take them up with him..because we cant help you. I mean if hes rude to you or whatever..then take it up with him. Or if you think he sucks then tell him so, but what I hate is people like you, well maybe not you because I dont know much about you other that the few times youve made tv, and Daniel who talk sh-t about Phil behind his back and then are nice to him to his face.Whereas whenever you see Phil do interviews away from the table on his peers (even those who have bad mouthed him) he is 9 times out of 10 resepectfull and complimentary.A Clairification:My only problem...besides your opinion of Hellmuths current skills, i mean its obvious hes still got world class game, your personal feelings i think are clouding your judgement.....my only problem was you liking Mike giving it to Phil because maybe the TOC letting him in when he shouldnt have been there....if so thats wrong....If you just hate Hellmuth and like him getting his balls broke...then thats ok..thats your opionion.

Wow I didn’t get that at all from his post.He just said he doesn’t like his table image.And why bring DN into this, he has stated on this forum several time he likes PH very much.He just believes he is easy money at the cash games I don’t think that is talking behind there backs.

The cash game thing is his opinion..Daniel plays cash games he would know better than anyone how Phil plays agianst the top cash game players in the world...WHAT IM talking about is his post in the "Why is Phil a fish" thread where daniel thrashes him talking about how he MIGHT be in the top 60 NL tourney players in the world today currenty.And how he used to be great and that his style is outdated and isnt effective blah blah blah...I mean its ok to be critical of someones play but is that really HONEST criticism? Might be in the top 60....in NL tourneys?I like Daniel too but wtf is he smoking and can I have some.

OK I didn't read that post.I agree PH has a great Hxbut maybe that is it, HxI know PH won the HU tourny, but look at that field, small and prosI think he is haveing trouble with the larger fields and all the armatures

[Mikeh77 0]

I have absolutely no issues with PH and have told him what I think of his antics to his face. In fact I asked him once whether he thought his antics could lead to someone smashing a chair over his head and that if it ever happened the TV companies would love it. His interpretation of what I was saying was that he thought I was threateneing to smash a chair over his head but I can't help it if he doesn't listen.Furthermore Its hardly saying something behind someones back when I post under my real name.It would also be difficult for him to insult his peers (peers = equals) but he is VERY derogatory to inexperienced players and those he considers to be inferior players and particularly interent players.Having said all that I have often defended him on certain issues (and I believ I have done so on this very forum) and I have always seen him behave impecably towards poker fans but can't help speaking my mind about him here and now because personally I feel he has a lot to learn in the manners department.You don't have to believe or like what I have to say but it's my honest views and for that I will not apologise......and just to show you that not eveyone in the poker world agrees with me...Layne Flack defends PH by saying that most people do not understand him and the reason for his antics is down to him taking so much pride in his game.But I feel you misunderstood my post.I merely stated that I enjoyed seeing Mike Matusow needling him verbally and was delighted to see him having to take his own medicine for a change as to put it frankly at the tables he is often a not very nice person.Away from the tables he is slightly arrogant but essentially a nice person.As for his abilities I stand by my assessment of him in that he has cost backers in the past a LOT of money and I do not believe he is a positive equity cash or tournament player in the modern day game. However should he win this by default I may have to change my mind;-)

Harry, great post and no hard feelings.

[HarryDemetriou 0]

OK missunderstanding and I apologize for what I said kinda brashly...Now you vs. Phil in a hold'em series...How about it ?

I do not get much chance to play cash games these days but when I do I usually play 80/160 limit holdem at Bellagio and 100/200 at Commerce.I have also been known to play 200/400 and 400/800 in various other places and sometimes rotation games involving Omaha 8 or better and Stud. I play none of the other disciplines but have tried Omaha (high) a couple of times but I am generally speaking a very poor omaha player beit it high only or hi/loFrom time to time I jump into no limit cash games with 10/20 or 25/50 blinds but as I said before I rarely play cash games as I just about have enough time to play the torunaments and I do not like to mix both and for very specific reasons.In Limit holdem I have averaged in the past around 1.3 to 1.5 big bets profit per hour but would describe myself as someone who plays too many hands which increases my volatility as a consequence. I have lttle or no doubt that I am a winning player and keep accurate records of performances. In torunaments I have also won considerably more to date than I have laid out in entries but there are some big buy in events coming up shortly that may change all that.I can afford to play higher but choose not too as poker is not my living and to do so would necessitate my having to spend a lot more time honing my skills to take on the better players at higher levels that I am likely to encounter.I do not imagine PH is a total mug at poker but always feel good about seeing him at my table in tournaments.I have not played in cash games with him but have watched him play and know people whose opinion I value who have played with him describe the type of player that he is.Should he ever issue challenge matches in the way DN does/has done then I feel certain that I willbe stepping up to the plate.Hope this answers some of your questions and now I'm off to bed.You may be happy to note that I shall not be posting anything between Wed and Sat as I hope to be busy with a tournament in Amsterdam.

[HarryDemetriou 0]

I never bare a grudge and never (well rarely) take anything personally.I just like openess and honesty despite the fact that many disagree with what I amy have to say. It's much better imo when people get things out into the open as then you can discuss thngs and move forward or agree to disagree.Anyway this is Daniels Forum and I seem to have hijacked it a bit today so I had better cool off a bit and get some sleep.....and all this because a couple of people were allowed into a restricted tournament at a late stage.There's a lot more wrong with poker than just this but bending the rules and undermining the integrity of poker is a big issue......... imho.I'm off to dream about beating PH heads up in next years wsop main event(and if I'm in a good mood I may let DN come third)ONLY KIDDING!

[Ralphy 0]

I have big problems with Phil, Doyle, and especially Johnny Chan getting this free ride.I enjoy watching Phil hellmuth but it disgusts me when I see him berating people like he did 2 weeks ago on WSOP tuesday night ("...you can't even spell poker....").I'd really like to see one of these guys drop kick Phil's head. Verbal abuse on that level is justification for physical abuse.Why did Johnny Chan get an invite? Chan is about as interesting to watch as watching moss grow on a tree.I'm a Brunson fan, especially after learning of his miracle recovery decades ago, but this guy is extremely boring to watch.Why didn't they invite Greenstein, or Negreanu (he has 10x's the personality as doyle, johnny, and barry), or any number of other pros. Mark Seif deserved to be there for his 2 bracelets if you are going to have invites.

[greatwhite 0]

If you don't like Matusow or Hellmuth at least everyone's favorite Steve Dannenmann is still in.

[AgroPoker 0]

Why did Johnny Chan get an invite?

I think this is an easy one. Top three bracelet winners.Not that I agree with the decision.

[doublemeup 0]

OK, but I don't know...Phil vs. Harry in all forms of hold'em? I mean no offense Phil has accomplished light years more than Harry all in hold'em.Is Harry a dominate cash player or something that I don't know??I would take Phil in an all holdem series...

i would take phil against any player in the world in hold'em except for the players in the "big game."

Please...according to Daniel there are 59...or more others that are better at Holdem than Philly :shock:

did he really say that? do you have a link? 9 WSOP bracelets, all in Hold'em. No way in hell theres 59 or more better than this man. Maybe 5-10 but not 59.

[Ralphy 0]

If you don't like Matusow or Hellmuth at least everyone's favorite Steve Dannenmann is still in.

I love Steve Dannenmann. He looks like he is really having fun when he plays. Good natured, good humored, seems like a great guy.

[SilentSnow 1]

i might have missed someone mentioning it, given all the talk about it,but it seems that the easiest solution to the problem would be to haveespn add about 50-200k to the prize pool. the players get their equity, and espn gets their ratings.

[Mikeh77 0]

OK, but I don't know...Phil vs. Harry in all forms of hold'em? I mean no offense Phil has accomplished light years more than Harry all in hold'em.Is Harry a dominate cash player or something that I don't know??I would take Phil in an all holdem series...

i would take phil against any player in the world in hold'em except for the players in the "big game."

Please...according to Daniel there are 59...or more others that are better at Holdem than Philly :shock:

did he really say that? do you have a link? 9 WSOP bracelets, all in Hold'em. No way in hell theres 59 or more better than this man. Maybe 5-10 but not 59.

Phil is a good no limit hold'em tournament player that might rank in the top 60 in the world today. As for cash games, because of his lack of emotional stability and fundamental knowledge I don't know that he could be a winning player above the $30-$60 limit. I think the guy is hilarious and just great for poker, but I don't think he is among the best players in the world today. A kid like Jdags, Erik123, Spirit Rock, Joe Cassidy, Michael "The Grinder" Mizrachi, Erick Lindgren, Martin deKnijff, Allen Cunningham, just to name a few that may have surprised you, would all rank ahead of Phil not only as overall players, but specifically no limit hold'em tournaments. I'd be happy to put my money where my mouth is. Phil did well in the 80's and 90's playing in a totally different world. Back then, there were far fewer great young players in the game with an aggressive style. Today, with so many great young players getting experience online and focused solely on poker, poker, poker, many of them would be great bets against Phil who hasn't played well in several years now for various reasons._________________God Bless, Daniel Negreanu http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/v...er=asc&start=40

[KJ_Aces_Kings 0]

Damn it will be fun to watch, even though hellmuth doesn't deserve to be there

[KowboyKoop 0]

I have big problems with Phil, Doyle, and especially Johnny Chan getting this free ride.I enjoy watching Phil hellmuth but it disgusts me when I see him berating people like he did 2 weeks ago on WSOP tuesday night ("...you can't even spell poker....").I'd really like to see one of these guys drop kick Phil's head. Verbal abuse on that level is justification for physical abuse.Why did Johnny Chan get an invite? Chan is about as interesting to watch as watching moss grow on a tree.I'm a Brunson fan, especially after learning of his miracle recovery decades ago, but this guy is extremely boring to watch.Why didn't they invite Greenstein, or Negreanu (he has 10x's the personality as doyle, johnny, and barry), or any number of other pros. Mark Seif deserved to be there for his 2 bracelets if you are going to have invites.

You must not be much of a poker fan if you don't enjoy watching Johnny Chan or Doyle Brunson play. I would pay 500 dollars to watch them play in the Big Game one time (if i could see the cards, of course..). Well, maybe not 500 dollars, but, I'd pay some money, it would be awesome.

[blueodum 0]

Most of the Hellmuth defenders are making an elementary mistake in logic.Because Hellmuth accomplished so much in the PAST does not automatically mean that he is one of the best NLHE tourney players NOW.For example, Joe Cassidy and David Oppenheim have accomplished relatively little in the poker world in comparison to Daniel Negreanu (no disrespect intended) - yet. But they both beat DN in Limit HE matches and judging from DN's comments they were very ferocious opponents and didn't simply get lucky.You see what I am saying? Lack of credentials does not necessarily equal lack of skill. Similarly, impressive performance in the past does not necessary equal superlative CURRENT ability.The Hellmuthian railbird club should listen to what Harry and Daniel, people who've sat at the table with Phil many times, have to say about his abilities.

[Guest]

Anyone else tickled that Phil and Mikey are 1 and 2 at the final table?

[Mikeh77 0]

Most of the Hellmuth defenders are making an elementary mistake in logic.Because Hellmuth accomplished so much in the PAST does not automatically mean that he is one of the best NLHE tourney players NOW.For example, Joe Cassidy and David Oppenheim have accomplished relatively little in the poker world in comparison to Daniel Negreanu (no disrespect intended) - yet. But they both beat DN in Limit HE matches and judging from DN's comments they were very ferocious opponents and didn't simply get lucky.You see what I am saying? Lack of credentials does not necessarily equal lack of skill. Similarly, impressive performance in the past does not necessary equal superlative CURRENT ability.The Hellmuthian railbird club should listen to what Harry and Daniel, people who've sat at the table with Phil many times, have to say about his abilities.

Like i said before...im not saying Phil is lighting the world on fire...but to say like Daniel has that hes been washed up for years (paraphrasing but thats close to what he said) is silly...He had 2 wsop bracelets in 2003 , 2 final tables in 2004 (otherwise crap), a decent series this year and the Heads Up win.. He has current accomplishments, albeit not dominant but I think alot of the bashing has to do more with his attitude than anything else.For example, look at how Daniels failures are rationalized, hes a nice guy (unless you are PH) and has a good personality so he gets defended more...especially on his forum