reading people

[RyanO3 0]

I've been playing live poker for about a year and a half now and do well but the one part of the game I can't seem to get is reading people. I just don't pick up anything no matter how much I watch someone. I have read Caro's Book of Poker Tells and watched the DVD but niether have seemed to help me too much. I rely mostly on betting to get a read on my opponents and I know to take my game to the next level I need to be able to read my opponents better. What do you guys do to help you read people better and how can I work on this problem. Thanks.

[Feltster 0]

I just ask them what they have.

[turd ferguson 1]

I used to have trouble with that too. Turns out I just had bad eyesight. Now I wear these babies, and I turned pro and made millions.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

x ray glasses.For real though, don't try to read the whole table, just focus on the players directly next to you and when you've got them down, spread out.Just focus on one or two players to start.I"m not good at it either.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

In my opinion, being able to "read" a person based on physical tells or actions may be somewhat overrated (though this may be because I'm mostly an online player). I also think that the ability to read another person is to a large extent innate. If you're putting a lot of effort into improving your ability to read other players, you would probably be better off spending that time studying betting patterns and and proper strategy rather than trying to learn all of Caro's tells. Just my two cents, though.

[JSHamm 9]

There's definitely merit into "reads", but it depends on what you're looking for. I wouldn't concentrate too much on finding the vein that pulses more on a bluff or if he/she breaks an Oreo at a certain time. Instead, I'd look more into their whole play. Are they folding a lot? Drinking? Calling a lot preflop? Watching the game more than the table? Have they lost a lot of pots recently? Personally, I feel these will give you a better read, in addition to betting patterns, than looking for specific physical tells.

[SAM_Hard8 50]

I'm with you. I have never been real good at reading people either. I concentrate on bet patterns and more obvious tells.

[ChuckSty 0]

If you ever want to dominate higher level games and tourneys for that matter that are live it is very important to learn how to read people. I'd say it is equally one of the most important things in poker.Obviously online it has no merit and for people who don't play live that much and then play live it isn't going to seem that different. But i would say that in a week good reads on opponents is the difference between making and losing 500 bucks. Not a ton of money but not bad either.edit: this is considering 2/5NL cash game played for 20 hours

[Staynerjohn 0]

I'm with you. I have never been real good at reading people either. I concentrate on bet patterns and more obvious tells.

This is really where I see the difference between online players and live...online there is ONLY the betting pattern to look at re: potential hand strength...when sitting at a table I LOVE to talk to those I'm in the hand with to try to get ideas on where I stand...plus the oldest tell in the book is the way people move their hands when they bet...there is no substitute for getting a physical feel for the game.and there is no RED FACE ANGER button anywhere on my computer...the face someone gets when they get 72 stuffed up their ass against AA...pure joy

[doublemeup 0]

If you ever want to dominate higher level games and tourneys for that matter that are live it is very important to learn how to read people. I'd say it is equally one of the most important things in poker.Obviously online it has no merit and for people who don't play live that much and then play live it isn't going to seem that different. But i would say that in a week good reads on opponents is the difference between making and losing 500 bucks. Not a ton of money but not bad either.edit: this is considering 2/5NL cash game played for 20 hours

well said. i think reading people is important even online. now i know i'll probably get flamed for this but there are a few tells online. some players not unknownlingly will take a certain amount of time with a big hand and a completely different amount of time with a weak hand. another one is that when they quickly check or click the automatic check box, they have no intention of playing a hand. Its not really physical tells but if you really pay close attention, you might pick up on these things. The only things you can go by for the most part though in online games is betting patterns.

[loogie 115]

I never learned to read!!

[The Bwaves 0]

One way I get "tells" on people is not so much by; OMG he touched his nose on the right side that means aces!!!It's much more subtle than that. It's more like; Okay, he just lost 3/4 of his stack late in the tournament and he's calling almost every hand now.Right there, stop and think.What's happening to him? He's tilting, he's trying to get lucky so that he can accumulate some chips.Now instead of trying to get physical reads, try thinking about the emotional state of the player in any given situation.If you lost 3/4's of your stack, your going to tighten up a little, calm down, and play your game -- or at least we hope. Most of the time your angry and disturbed that he caught his king on the turn.Use a players emotions to your advantage. If you realize that he's playing less than marginal hands, with a low chip stack, because of a bad beat, put him to a dicision!All in all, play the persons thoughts and emotions, don't play thier facial expressions (even though some people do have physical tells) don't rely on them to much. There are actors out there.Hope I helped a little.

[Diabolical 0]

Like I have been sayin. You need to study human behavior. What makes people do what they do. (This statement is vastly general)When someone takes a swig of beer, what does that mean? Caro's book of tells is ................. well........ comical.There are a few things in there that are good to look for. Like when someone looks at there chips. They are probably going to bet. But......... why are they going to bet? That's where you have study players and see why they do these things.Ok, here's a little experiment. With a friend; have him sit down and put both hands on the table. Now, have him tap the table with both hands using his fingers. Tell him to keep tapping the table while you ask him questions. Start with simple questions. Like, what day is today, what is your favorite color, what color is the sky ect. Then, start to ask him more complex questions that will force him to think. While doing this, watch the tapping of his hands. When the tapping slows down, you know that the questions are getting difficult for him and he needs to use more of his brain power recourses to think. (if a three flush hits the board, and you see your opponent slow down, he probably didn't like that card) Watch for these pauses. Find out what they mean by playing poker. Experience is what will make you a better player. When i'm not playing poker, I'm watching how people react to things. ANYTHING!! And to tell you the truth, I can't help it. I've been playing for ten years now and it's just something I do out of reflex.Let me find some more examples.May the cards be with you

[doublemeup 0]

One way I get "tells" on people is not so much by; OMG he touched his nose on the right side that means aces!!!It's much more subtle than that. It's more like; Okay, he just lost 3/4 of his stack late in the tournament and he's calling almost every hand now.Right there, stop and think.What's happening to him? He's tilting, he's trying to get lucky so that he can accumulate some chips.Now instead of trying to get physical reads, try thinking about the emotional state of the player in any given situation.If you lost 3/4's of your stack, your going to tighten up a little, calm down, and play your game -- or at least we hope. Most of the time your angry and disturbed that he caught his king on the turn.Use a players emotions to your advantage. If you realize that he's playing less than marginal hands, with a low chip stack, because of a bad beat, put him to a dicision!All in all, play the persons thoughts and emotions, don't play thier facial expressions (even though some people do have physical tells) don't rely on them to much. There are actors out there.yea you helped out. i get what you're saying but you have to use physical tells too. If a guys an actor then you pick up on that!! You say to yourself, this guy always acts like he has a good hand but he never does or this guy always seems relaxed in a big all in situation but he really has nothing. I always tend to watch how a certain player plays when he loses a big pot. This becomes vital information when you play a pot against him. Hope I helped a little.

[Diabolical 0]

I wrote this last weekSun, Oct 30th, 2005 9:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what's wrong with the races comment? let me explain. there are certain things that you can count on certain people from different races to do. (alot of the time, but of course, not all the time) Armeniens, love to show you how much money they have. When they buy-in, they pull out big wads of money so everyone knows that this "little game" is not going to hurt them. Then, they like to raise every round and they scoop up big pots when the scare everyone off on the river. But, they are smart enough to look over the table and fold when they "read" that someone woke up with a big hand and bluffing would not be a good idea. So they wait for the next hand and start their shhiat all over again. in my experience, black people are gamblers. They treat any game in the casino the same way. It's all luck and it's about catching cards and if you don't catch cards, then you should bluff. Man, I can't remember how many times i've seen a black person get a bad beat and throw a fit. They feel that because they have a good hand, they deserve to win. It seems that, they don't play there opponents, they play "their hands" and are oblivious to what others are holding. Asians, hahaha, well they can play a variety of ways. Most Asians have been gambling since they were 8-10 years old. It's in there blood and they can be very tricky. But alot like to be very aggressive and they will bluff when they read your weak. Plus, they don't like to be made a fool of. If you take them down in a way that makes them look bad, they will "NEVER" forget that. They almost never forgive and don't trust most other races. Whites, you can put them on playing soundly. They use math and like to make "logical" moves. There risks are calculated and you can count on them to be watching everyone at the table. They also get irritated more easy from the other races around them. This can throw there game off and cause them to leave a good game that they should stay in. Bluffing, works on this player more often than others. Hispanics, like blacks, can be very loose and in the "gambling" mode. Plus, they like to drink at the table and this is a major weakness for them. They are more inclined to "speak up" when they want to and can become a bully with words more often. This can work to there advantage if your afraid to look at them to get a read on where there at in a hand. Remember, these are things to know and use in default. But, the best way to get a read on how any "individual" player plays, Regardless of what race he/she is from, is to watch how they play and how they react to things and then adjust to it accordingly. I'm not saying that these sterotypes are "cement fact"! Like I stated about learning how to play premium hands first before you expand to more advanced play. These are things to remember, in default. But should not be thought of as an "always or never" statement.

[Diabolical 0]

Something else.What kind of tells are you giving off when you play?You need to clean up your game and stop giving off unwanted tells.Then, you need to give off DISINFORMATIONI'm glad you have got to this level. Keep it up!!! But now you need to learn HOW TO PLAY POKER What I mean by this is playing post flop and being deceptive. Always watching other players and recording your results. May the cards be with you

[SomethingWicked 0]

Something else.What kind of tells are you giving off when you play?You need to clean up your game and stop giving off unwanted tells.Then, you need to give off DISINFORMATIONI'm glad you have got to this level. Keep it up!!! But now you need to learn HOW TO PLAY POKER What I mean by this is playing post flop and being deceptive. Always watching other players and recording your results. May the cards be with you

I've been playing hold 'em for about 4 yrs 3-5 days a week on average, and I would be inclind to agree with your statement. However, these things you state that should be held by "default" are only true for the most novice and stereotypical players. I started to laugh because I've said about everything you stated in the previous post about every race mentioned including my own. One thing you forgot~ These stereotypes hold true mainly for men. Women tend to 'just call' often wondering if they've made the right move! haha. As for getting table reads, I'm not sure how much advise I can give since I'm working on this myself. However, the best way is through experience. Find a game, play the game. Focus on a particular player. Prolly the one directly across from you. Observe his bet and his folds including his down time (not playing the hand), is he comfortable? ask yourself questions about his hand, what would you do? Often when players make a text book fold and hit a flop they will react subconciously. Watch their eyes. Often new players will stare at the cards that made their hand or look down while they make their bet. Try looking at the player as the cards fall. Does he look at you or the cards? Keep asking yourself these questions for every player at the table. Soon you'll pick up on this information right away and move to more compicated questions. Don't be discouraged if can't put someone on Ace of Clubs Jack of Diamonds. Not many ppl in the world can. But, the more attention you pay to your oppenent the easier it will be to place him/her on a hand. And he you. Then you'll fully be able to use disinformation technique mentioned above. Hope that helps,Cory

[Diabolical 0]

One thing you forgot~ These stereotypes hold true mainly for men. Women tend to 'just call' often wondering if they've made the right move! haha. As for getting table reads, I'm not sure how much advise I can give since I'm working on this myself. However, the best way is through experience. Find a game, play the game. Focus on a particular player. Prolly the one directly across from you. Observe his bet and his folds including his down time (not playing the hand), is he comfortable? ask yourself questions about his hand, what would you do? Often when players make a text book fold and hit a flop they will react subconciously. Watch their eyes. Often new players will stare at the cards that made their hand or look down while they make their bet. Try looking at the player as the cards fall. Does he look at you or the cards? Keep asking yourself these questions for every player at the table. Soon you'll pick up on this information right away and move to more compicated questions. Don't be discouraged if can't put someone on Ace of Clubs Jack of Diamonds. Not many ppl in the world can. But, the more attention you pay to your oppenent the easier it will be to place him/her on a hand. And he you. Then you'll fully be able to use disinformation technique mentioned above.

This is good advise!! 8)

[Diabolical 0]

shhhiattt, i've been getting good enough at reading people that I can do it ONLINE as well. I can guesse someone's age and gender by there Avatar, there betting patterns, pauses, comments, what they don't say, moods ect.STUDY HUMAN BEHAVIORyou will be rewarded if you work at it. 8) 8) 8) 8) May the cards be with you

[Diabolical 0]

you will also gain other useful information. Like......... who hates you in your family. Who your real friends are. :shock: :shock: If your girlfriend is playing games with you. :shock: :shock: :shock: WORK ON IT

[Dark Poet 0]

I've been working on reading skills as well, and pretty much hate to give up on it...but in the meantime I have been sharpening other aspects of my game so that when the "light bulb" of reads comes on over my head I am ready!Even deceptive play, as mentioned, helps you with other people's reads. Are they afraid of you when you do something? What do they do after you show them a bluff? How do they play the next hand against you after you've fooled them? In my circle I am known as a tight, calculating player - - I have read all of Sklansky's books and believe that math can help you make a close call or fold it. So what I like to do sometimes when I have the nuts is calculate at the table- say some stuff out loud about what I think my opponent has...and decide to smooth call his bet. Almost guarentees action on the next card if you can make your opponent think you are on a draw.

[Diabolical 0]

something else to mention.If you notice that someone at your table plays alot of "Math", then use it against him/her :shock: !!And you can only use it against them if you know "math"This works more in NL but it still can be useful in limit games 8) 8) here to help and not become a flaming vet. Let me know if you have other ?smay the cards be with you

[doublemeup 0]

something else to mention.If you notice that someone at your table plays alot of "Math", then use it against him/her :shock: !!And you can only use it against them if you know "math"This works more in NL but it still can be useful in limit games 8) 8) here to help and not become a flaming vet. Let me know if you have other ?smay the cards be with you

yea if i know that a guy is calculating the odds then its obvious that he doesn't have a very strong hand because if he did they he would call or raise much quicker. its an obvious tell.

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

It's a good point made above, trying to discern what info you're giving off to others. Opponents may vocalize when they think you're giving off a tell, or they may modify their playing style, or start making certain plays consistently in response to plays you're making. Monitor all this. Then you know, in turn, what to look for in others. You can exploit others who are definitely even less astute at reading. Recently, I had an opponent gleefully exclaim that he detected a change in my betting pattern and concluded I must've been bluffing. Slightly annoying, since he wasn't even in the hand, but I definitely used it to my advantage in subsequent hands. His read was waaaaay off, considering every variable about that specific hand changed my 'betting pattern,' but it made me realize that others' conclusions are just if not more important than your own.Also, game theory intones putting your opponent on a range of hands. That's obviously a crucial read which is somewhat independent of physical tells. If you can figure out another's holdings, who cares what sort of facial tic he's displaying...

[PrtyPSux 0]

betting patterns, betting patterns, betting patterns. because of online poker I have gotten great at identifying betting patterns, its really the thing Im most proud of about my game, I can really make some good reads both in limit and no limit games just based on how people are playing their hands. I didnt think it would be a skill that crossed over well to live play but when I went to vegas I saw that it really did. Now, when I learn how to indentify physical tells better, I guarantee you ill have a huge edge at my table because of the combination of reads. I feel that while live players do know how to identify reading patterns, online players can become masters at it, because thats all we have to base our reads on.