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my objection with this "new" fcp


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i was talking to econ_tim, we both feel the same way.this place is becoming wannabe 2+2.one of the things which i loved about FCP was how simple and user-friendly the forums were. one for general, one for strategy, one for off-topic, and that was basically it (the others were rarely used). they all got heavy traffic and were all very effective.then, strat got split, but that was no big deal. the general strat forum definitely lost some traffic, but that was okay... we learned to deal with it. making separate forums for the games worked out well.but now, i've frankly been fairly turned off. micro-LHE? regular LHE? NLHE? and there's talk of making HUSH LHE and MHS LHE? what? i didn't know sklansky and malmuth ran FCP all of a sudden.is this really necessary? all of these forums, and i guarantee traffic is going to go down on each of them. are we really that obsessed with making sure no .50/1 LHE post gets into the regular LHE forum? who cares if there are some NLHE hands mixed with some LHE hands?just food for thought. i'm personally not a fan of this new FCP at all. it's not even a case of "i hate change", it's just... too much splitting apart for FCP's own good, IMHO.aseem

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I don't read Strat - so I can't comment directly.I hope others without expertise also keep shut. Regular posters and readers of the Strat forums have the most say here.The criteria should be - does this make a better forum or not? And let me throw out what I think a a better forum means:- more good discussions - easier to find posts- more users checking in on it regularly- more FCPers winning $$ and final tabling--> more community.***EDITED TO ADD****Also, in general the criteria for adding a new forum is dramatically different content that is confounding usability. And, if the # of topics are growing beyond a threshold of attention - something up to 10-25 active topics per day is manageable to a regular reader.Obviously we have an bit of a managability issue with the General Poker forum - and I hope to see that allieviated in the coming months.

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I also do not like the new partitioning of strategy. It was very beneficial to read posts from 40/80 down to 0.01/0.02 and have posters at all levels contribute to the discussion and often learn from the experts. Now I fear that these experts will confine themselves to the Limit HE section and the micro-limit section will therefore suffer without their input.The question I have is whether having all these posts in one section was really that much of a distraction - I never felt that was the case.

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Having them separated into different subdivisions is a minor hassle for me.I think what would work better is if there was an extra field that had to be completed when creating a new topic in the strat forum. Say, one of several boxes had to be checked off to specify what type of game it was (LHE, NLHE, PLHE etc) and that title would appear in the left margin of topic list. You could also have another box that specifies the approximate states (micro, low, mid, high).

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I personally tend to agree with what Aseem said here. I think each forum will end up with less traffic and I don't like it. I can see a justification for splitting LHE and NL, but this further splitting seems a little like overkill.

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I agree with Aseem on this one. I often comment and post 5/10 hands. However, I feel that a lot of the players grinding it out at micro limits would be missing out on solid advice as the experienced players wouldn't go to the micro limit forum. However, they will comment on the hand if it's in the main limit forum. I'm fine with general strat, then seperating into holdem, omaha, and stud variations. However, I don't think we need that much of a split. As for as the HUSH/FT split, I think we can just put that in the titles and it'll be fine.

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The reason that these changes are necessary (yes, necessary) is because strategy is different from game to game and different skills are needed at different levels. People that specialize at one can stay in that forum and help those people without having to sift through all of the posts that they can't help with. We saw this when Daniel started doing one-a-day's. He would give advice and many would disagree because play is drastically different at his levels than at micro limits and small stakes.I explained this to Daniel the same way when he asked about the HUSH forums. There are members that are excellent full-table players but absolutely awful shorthanded players. Two different sets of skills. It's like having the hold'em forum seperate from the omaha forum. It's the same reasons.This isn't a "wannabe 2+2" change, 2+2 just beat us to it. It would've happened eventually. Personally, I'd rather be closer to 2+2 than RGP.

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I'm okay with splitting NLHE and LHE, but I'm not sure a separate micro-forum is a good idea. Higher limit players often comment on micro-limit hands, which is great for newer players, and I'm afraid a split will kill that somewhat.

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my biggest complaint is that micro shoudl be next to regular limit if u are going to have to limits. The fact that they are so far apart draws no attention to the micro section making it a pointless section since only about 4 or 5 regulars seem to know it even exists...if ur going to have multiple forums for a specific game, group them together please

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I agree with Aseem on this one. I often comment and post 5/10 hands. However, I feel that a lot of the players grinding it out at micro limits would be missing out on solid advice as the experienced players wouldn't go to the micro limit forum. However, they will comment on the hand if it's in the main limit forum. I'm fine with general strat, then seperating into holdem, omaha, and stud variations. However, I don't think we need that much of a split. As for as the HUSH/FT split, I think we can just put that in the titles and it'll be fine.
I agree with aseem and I really like what Zimmer had to say.For me, FCP is DN's blog, then I read strat, then I lurk FCPHA, then and only then do I venture into gen or other parts of the forum.I technically play micro limits, 1/2 & 2/4, but I really want to hear what the higher limit players would think. It's much easier to read the holdem section without the splitting of the forum.
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Personally i think the one thing that should be added is the ability to vote for whether posts are useful or not. Instead of having to wade through all the bad posts you can quickly look at the rating and skip what isn't useful. If there is a post that doesn't help just give it a negative vote and move on. If you could limit the people voting to just like 20 or 30 veterans who know how the forum works, etc. you wouldnt have to worry about useful threads getting negative votes. Also if you wanted to search and find the best threads search and search was sorted by rating it would be much easier to get useful information. With privilege being given to people in the way that mods get it, you could easily make the forum more efficient and recognize the contribution made by veterans. I don't have many posts myself because I am more of a lurker so if my opinion doesn't mean much thats fine but from my experience reading the posts i feel the forum could be much better this way.

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i agree with OP on this one....one of the main reasons i dont go to 2+2 very often is the fact that there are 80000000 forums. and honestly, very few people are going to look thru all these forums to make sure its in the "right" place before posting in general anyways. Like said above...less is more.

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Be honest with yourself for a second here guys. Would you play the hands in the same way if you are playing 10-20 or .10-.20? Well i haven't played that low, but i know that you don't play the same way. You have to be much more straightforward in lower limits, tricky plays will generally cost you bets. That is not to say that there aren't any concepts that micro limit players can get from higher limit ones, obviously there is much for them to learn, but splitting the sections up does make sense. Possibly a labeling system could work too. Actually i think that would be a better compromise.

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(i accidentally posted this over a previous post (using edit feature), so i'm going to re-post for the purpose of bumping the thread)in response to custom's comments:having a single strat forum never created confusion due to differing points of view from people who play at various levels. it was actually beneficial to have these different perspectives and to be able to think critically about which play would be best for the given situation.one of the detriments of dividing and subdividing forums is that you lose the cross-functional team approach to problem-solving, meaning you have a group of people who are of too similar backgrounds to produce a meaningful discussion. when everyone posting in a small-stakes, short-handed forum are small-stakes short-handed specialists, you miss out on potentially brilliant insights from players of other disciplines.having intelligent input from a diversity of backgrounds forces critical thinking. without such diversity, you run the risk of reading strat threads where every single post is in agreement with every other. while it may seem that these threads are this way because everyone knows what they're talking about, the reality is that there is no intelligent discussion taking place, and often the WRONG play becomes the universally-accepted one.while dividing the strat forum into sub-forums ad infinitum seems appealing from an organizational and logical perspective, you're losing important avenues of communication that could be beneficial to your game.

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one of the detriments of dividing and subdividing forums is that you lose the cross-functional team approach to problem-solving, meaning you have a group of people who are of too similar backgrounds to produce a meaningful discussion. when everyone posting in a small-stakes, short-handed forum are small-stakes short-handed specialists, you miss out on potentially brilliant insights from players of other disciplines. having intelligent input from a diversity of backgrounds forces critical thinking. without such diversity, you run the risk of reading strat threads where every single post is in agreement with every other. while it may seem that these threads are this way because everyone knows what they're talking about, the reality is that there is no intelligent discussion taking place, and often the WRONG play becomes the universally-accepted one.
Excellent point.
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Great post chiggleslap, very well thought out.I agree whole-heartedly with Aseem, the forum has started to grow out of control with the addition of the "charter members" and now has gotten more confusing by adding all of these different forums.Custom, look at it this way. You have moved up through the limits, been from 2-4 to 3-6 and now to 5-10. According to these new forums 2-4 is "micro" and because of this someone of your playing level might not visit this forum when they actually might have some useful insight because they have surpassed these limits on the way up to higher limits.Please, DN and everybody new related to administrating and moderating this forum, take this into account. Their are a lot of "veterans" that have raised issue with these new forums, all I am asking is that you look into this and get more input.Thanks a lot.

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I just read through the first five posts on this thread. And I started to develop a very strong opinion on why more distinction between fora would be in FCP's greatest interest.Then I realized: there is no right answer. It does not matter whether a strategy section for micro-limit hold'em is NEXT to a strategy section for NL Hold'em, or WITHIN it as the same thread.How, ELKang, can anyone be "experienced" at valuing this sort of thing. These are trifles. A site like this wastes time.If the changes cause AKishore to spend less time on FCP, it is much to his benefit. He may then find other, more worthwhile pursuits. Perhaps he will pick up the violin he has neglected to practice. Or go out to the banks of the Charles River for a rugby game with friends.I am not trying to denigrate FCP. I have finally discovered the ability of the Internet to lull people into a social dormancy.FCP is a tremendous forum filled with clever, insightful, and kind people. Let us find good things to do with our time.Cheers and blessings, Posoo

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