tournaments vs. cash games

[uahphysics 0]

This post has Two topics:First I'd just like to know why good tournament poker players don't get more respect. People diss Phil Hellmuth(yes, I am a big fan of Hellmuth's) for not being a good cash game player, and yes, I realize that a great player will be great at both(aka Brunson, Greenstein), I still don't think that's any reason to demerit Phil's accomplishments on the tournament circuit. Second, is kind of an aside to the first. I am a pretty decent Tournament player in just about every game, but I tend to lose more than I win at cash games, usually about halfway through the night I start making a comeback after I've obsevered all the players and figure out how to play them, but how can I transfer my skills in the tournaments to the cash game?

[KDawgCometh 2]

The main reason that the cash game players get more respect is that its a day in day out type of winning. You can get lucky a few times in cash games but in the long run you will lose. This is where Hellmuth's style doesn't work, generating chips early on in the nite just isn't gonna matter as you can buyin for whatever you want and buy back. Phil's style suffers at the cash game level too because he isn't great at several different forms of poker, he also plays too many hands. This might be your biggest problem in adjusting to cash games, you need to be patient and really sock it to people when you have he best of it. People can buy back so the entire ting of playing small cards to try to hit a big pot and snap up a massive stack isn't necessarily the best way to go about things. Many tournament players that I have come across have a hard time adjusting to cash games, and those who play almost all no limit have a real hard time adjusting to limit games. Try just playing cash games for a while and get out of the tourny scene, concentrate on it and you will probably improve

[Mister Hand 0]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that cash game players get more respect. If anything, tournament players get more recognition because their successes will be on national TV, not in a semi-private section of a high-limit poker room.In Phil's case, at least part of the lack of respect probably comes from his personality, and how he handles setbacks. Tournament skills and cash game skills are very different, especially when comparing NL tourneys to limit cash games. That's why very few players excel at both.

[TheIceman05 0]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that cash game players get more respect. If anything, tournament players get more recognition because their successes will be on national TV

Recognition is one thing. Respect is another. Phil Ivey (and, more recently) Daniel Negreanu are the only tournament pros that have successfully made the transition from their big-buy-in tournament events to the biggest of big cash games, and this is not a coincidence. Most players who try to make the transition from tournament poker to, say, "the big game" don't come out ahead. And that's reflected in the opinions held by the best of the best.Nobody knows who Chau Giang is (well, you do now, but only because he decided to get back on the tourney circuit), but he probably gets more respect from great poker players than, say, Paul Phillips. Chau Giang is probably one of the 15 best poker players on the planet.Same goes for Chip Reese. Maybe the best in history. But he was virtually unknown for some time to the general public because he wasn't playing in tournaments. Everyone says Phil Ivey had a "bad year," when he may have had one of the best years in the history of poker. Everyone recognizes tournament players. But the people who are in the best position to judge talent and skill have much more respect for the top cash talent.Ice

[TheIceman05 0]

Also, Phil Hellmuth blows because he goes on tilt and pisses all his chips away in cash games. There's a reason he doesn't have a ton of success in side games. It's because he's a joke.Ice

[PrtyPSux 0]

in my opinion phil plays hardly any hands specially for cash games... I am basing this on his book and dvd's also I saw him fold an AQ against johnny chan in the tournament of champs ,, so my guess is that phil doesnt do good in cash games because of that, if people know that you are very tight you wont get action.,.. now to the main topic..,. I have sightly the same problem, I can do great in big tournaments, I almost always place high. Sit n go's I can win sometimes with out even getting good hands. but if I sit at a no limit cash game I dont win much. Here is the thing to be a good cash no limit player... you have to be agressive, very agressive, now.. you cant do that until you lose the fear of losing your stack, and to do this you have to have a large bankroll that can take those swings. If you go into a game and lose your stack in the first half hour by playing every hand, I guarantee you that you can play tight after that and people will keep calling you. that is why doyle brunson's super system doesnt work many of the times.. because doyle plays like he doesnt care if he loses he'll put you to the test more times that you put him and in the end he'll chip away at your stack. This is why your game is better in tourney's than cash you play with no fear ,,you'll put someone all in w/ a flush draw knowing they wont call with top pair, you make the correct play and dont think twice about it, if you lose then you lose your buy in but if you win you can potentially win the tourney.. Playing no limit cash games takes balls, and skill ..but more than that it takes money.I recommend playing limit holdem, or maybe even tourney's if thats what your good at and you are making steady money with it.. the point is to build a bankroll that can take huuuuge swings for no limit then you can play with no fear like in the tourney's

[uahphysics 0]

Hey guys, thanks for all the advice, I'm really enjoying the feeling of community here on the forum, even though I'm a new member. On a side note, I think that as of late, Phil Hellmuth is one of the most underrated players on the circuit, noone seems to be able to see past his demeanor, but he still remains my fav. pro player

[bourbenz 0]

I think phil is pretty much a joke personally, his style has long since passed and his book has to be the worst ive ever read. The only positive to it is, I thumb through it in the bathroom every now and then and it has soft pages