key ub... danial please read and put ur input tx

[daddypoker23 0]

"So I was sweating a 200-400 heads up game on UB (along with about 50 others!)and was watching a game between Keyser and wwwnvrwinpkr. nvrwin started w like 50K and Keyser started w like 16K. so the game was going on and keyser was getting his ass kicked. it was clear that nvrwin was severely outplaying him. Keyser lost his first buy in, then he bought in again and lost that, and then he lost his third buy in and nvrwin was sitting pretty with 90K when keyser finally left.then this other guy catchoftheday steps in and starts talking with nvrwin about how he only agreed to transfer him some money or something if he agreed not to play Keyser HU 200-400, and nvrwin pulls some cop out that it was a misunderstanding and blah blah blah. Now it clearly seems like Keyser is a gambling addict who really didn't know what he was doing.Anyway, catchoftheday left and a little while after that, werestreakin sits at the table. he starts accusing nvrwin of being a cheat, and then says that he beat keyser out of everything. He said "you took everything, he has nothing left to live for man".And right then I just froze up and felt absolutely horrible. Not in a physical sense but it was just sickening. nvrwin clearly knew he was taking advantage of a compulsive gambler and cleaned him out of all his money. he then went on to gloat that about how he was the best heads up player in the world. i still feel horrible after witnessing this whole thing and i dont even know what kind of responses i am looking for here but i had to get it off my chest. i dont think poker will ever be the same for me. i mean sure this type of thing will never happen at low limits but to know that there is someone as twisted and greedy as nvrwin out there is a disgusting thought."i got this from a other forum felt everybody needed to read this joel

[Username 0]

This is absurd.The compulsive gambler knew what he was getting into. Maybe losing all his money will make him reflect on his problem.

[bdluss 0]

I dont feel the least bit bad. Here is the reality, if someone is playing 200/400 heads up I can almost guarantee he plays for a living. Given that, you take the $ where you can get it. He didn't cheat he outplayed the other guy. If the compulsive gambler wouldn't have lost his $ to him, he would have lost it elsewhere. Yes its sad, but the gambler would have lost it on the craps table, or online betting somewhere else. I don't blame the other player, you take the $ where you can get it.

[treydru21 0]

The dummy should not have been playing if he didn't want to lose. And you said he bought back 3 times. That is his own dumb fault. Compulsive gambler or not. He is an idiot. If you don't play poker to take the other guys money what are you playing for???? If you sit with me I want to take every cent you have in front of you, then I want you to remortage your house and repo your car. Bottom line dont play if you cant lose

[THE ACE IS BACK 0]

The compulsive gambler is most likey so far gone, he doesn't give a S**t, and is truly desperate.. It's like drugs and booze. That's why there is G.A.. If that guy doesn't get his life turned around he will probably kill himself. It is sad. I don't know the man so my feelings towards the situation are pretty much num. However, the people that were angry at nvrwin and defending Keyser, surely know the situation better and are most likey sad at what happened. I know if one of my loved ones was addicted to something... be it drugs or gambling or whatever.. It would sadden me to no end. Lastly I don't aggree with taking money from a desperate addicted person. There are plenty of easy marks that aren't addicted to gambling. Why don't we steel purses from old ladies because it's easy or sell drugs to drug addicts because they want it. I know if I over match someone I will take thier money if they have some to lose, or I don't know the situation they 're in. However if I know the person is an addict I'm not going to take their money, just like I wouldn't serve booze to an desperate drunk or druds to an addict. Those are my feelings anyways.

[Mister Hand 0]

It is sad. I don't know the man so my feelings towards the situation are pretty much num. However, the people that were angry at nvrwin and defending Keyser, surely know the situation better and are most likey sad at what happened.

That, or they wanted to play him too, and were angry that someone else busted him first.

Lastly I don't aggree with taking money from a desperate addicted person. There are plenty of easy marks that aren't addicted to gambling. Why don't we steel purses from old ladies because it's easy

Your analogy fails here because the old lady is not volunteering her purse. It's being taken by force.

However if I know the person is an addict I'm not going to take their money, just like I wouldn't serve booze to an desperate drunk or druds to an addict. Those are my feelings anyways.

And they're admirable feelings, imo. But in the end, the responsibility lays squarely on the shoulders of Keyser. If as the popular theory goes, the compulsive gambler subconsciously wants to lose, then he got exactly what he wanted. If he doesn't decide to stop gambling, it doesn't matter how many well-intentioned friends he has trying to get him to stop.

[wrto4556 0]

"So I was sweating a 200-400 heads up game on UB (along with about 50 others!)and was watching a game between Keyser and wwwnvrwinpkr. nvrwin started w like 50K and Keyser started w like 16K. so the game was going on and keyser was getting his ass kicked. it was clear that nvrwin was severely outplaying him. Keyser lost his first buy in, then he bought in again and lost that, and then he lost his third buy in and nvrwin was sitting pretty with 90K when keyser finally left.then this other guy catchoftheday steps in and starts talking with nvrwin about how he only agreed to transfer him some money or something if he agreed not to play Keyser HU 200-400, and nvrwin pulls some cop out that it was a misunderstanding and blah blah blah. Now it clearly seems like Keyser is a gambling addict who really didn't know what he was doing.Anyway, catchoftheday left and a little while after that, werestreakin sits at the table. he starts accusing nvrwin of being a cheat, and then says that he beat keyser out of everything. He said "you took everything, he has nothing left to live for man".And right then I just froze up and felt absolutely horrible. Not in a physical sense but it was just sickening. nvrwin clearly knew he was taking advantage of a compulsive gambler and cleaned him out of all his money. he then went on to gloat that about how he was the best heads up player in the world. i still feel horrible after witnessing this whole thing and i dont even know what kind of responses i am looking for here but i had to get it off my chest. i dont think poker will ever be the same for me. i mean sure this type of thing will never happen at low limits but to know that there is someone as twisted and greedy as nvrwin out there is a disgusting thought."i got this from a other forum felt everybody needed to read this joel

I can't wait until I have enough money to take every penny some poor soul has. If it make anyone feel better, i'de post a sign that read:"Don't sit unless you expect to lose"Hahahahaha. No I wouldn't. Neverwin's the nuts.

[iveyfan30 0]

then I want you to remortage your house and repo your car. wtf?????????????i disagree...yes when im playing i want to take everything you have in front of you...that doesnt mean i want you to lose your home and car lol.. i understand your goal is to win all his money , and i have no problem with that...but why wish financial ruin on him after he leaves the table...theres a diffence between being ruthless at the table and being an a s s h o l e

[KDawgCometh 2]

its not neverwin's fault that keyser was an idiot. Neverwin is also notorious for being one of the best players out there, keyser probably knew what he was getting himself into. There is no shame in taking a poor sack's money

[treydru21 0]

Posted: Sat, Feb 5th, 2005 12:34 Post subject: Re: key ub... danial please read and put ur input tx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- then I want you to remortage your house and repo your car. wtf????????????? i disagree...yes when im playing i want to take everything you have in front of you...that doesnt mean i want you to lose your home and car lol.. i understand your goal is to win all his money , and i have no problem with that...but why wish financial ruin on him after he leaves the table...theres a diffence between being ruthless at the table and being an a s s h o l e IVEY settledown now, I am saying while he is still at the poker table, if I can get you to Re-finance your house and Throw a few car payments into the pot. I will take those 2. Point is if you cant lose it dont play it. Neverwin did nothing wrong here. If someone sits down and you are just flat out killing them. Are you going to stop because you might have won to much. Sorry but no never

[iveyfan30 0]

Posted: Sat, Feb 5th, 2005 12:34 Post subject: Re: key ub... danial please read and put ur input tx -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- then I want you to remortage your house and repo your car. wtf????????????? i disagree...yes when im playing i want to take everything you have in front of you...that doesnt mean i want you to lose your home and car lol.. i understand your goal is to win all his money , and i have no problem with that...but why wish financial ruin on him after he leaves the table...theres a diffence between being ruthless at the table and being an a s s h o l e IVEY settledown now, I am saying while he is still at the poker table, if I can get you to Re-finance your house and Throw a few car payments into the pot. I will take those 2. Point is if you cant lose it dont play it. Neverwin did nothing wrong here. If someone sits down and you are just flat out killing them. Are you going to stop because you might have won to much. Sorry but no never

well i agree with that..i must have misunderstood...if hes willing to sit down, then hes willing to win or lose...im sure he would have no problem taking my money, so i have none taking his...if he does have a problem he needs to straighten it out and quit playing...until then sorry to say hes fair game...

[treydru21 0]

Precisely, if you cant lose Dont be at my table

[djactionman 0]

I've been through that, lost my place and my car and everything. And, it's hard, it's really hard. It's difficult to want to get back up. Mine wasn't from gambling, it was from being too young and maybe too green to know I was being taken advantage of by a corrupt business owner I worked for. I don't know if either player was right in that match, the guy obviously had a problem, he shouldn't have been playing. If you knew somebody wasn't well, shouldn't be driving a car, and they got behind the wheel, you'd handle it differently. But, at the same time, if you are sitting down at the table, I don't know if it's honorable or respectable to dump to some guy, either. I think it's kind of gray...I can understand and respect all of your opinions on this one.

[Markmadness 0]

It's a sad situation,My buddy who was a gambler had to leave the province for two years to hide. It is an awful situation but, I never felt bad for him. He dug his own grave. Drink responsibly, play poker responsibly. Sure i can play at the 200/400 table. This would be my savings however. But i choose to play at the .50/1.00 online. I play poker for fun. I play my live games, i Bring 50 bucks. If i win great, if i lose well i look at it as a night out with some easy chick that i don't have to spend so much money to get in her pants hahaha

[TheIceman05 0]

Yeah, this is an area that's a little greyer than most for me. What weaknesses are okay to take advantage of? I really don't have an answer. I was playing cards at a local frat house, once. I drink when I play, and it doesn't affect my NL game too much, and I think I was pretty tanked this night. I was cleaning up, and some meathead came and sat down. I had about 500 bucks in front of me, and he bought in for something like 501. He threw the cash on the table, and could barely speak (though it didn't stop him from yelling a lot) and hardly knew what was going on.About 3 hands in, I'd picked off about 50% of his chips. Next hand, he pukes all over the place, passes out, and has to be taken to the hospital. Whoa. He had severe alcohol poisoning, and had some barbituates in his system, too. Ended up being in the hospital for like 48 hours. Hmm. He was absolutely unable to control himself, and really had no idea what he was doing. I thought long and hard about it, and decided that his judgment had not been clouded, but absolutely obliterated. So I gave him the money I took from him back, on the condition he tell nobody (so that I wouldn't be put in an awkward position with any other palyers). To his credit, he tried to refuse. But I figure, if there's something THAT wrong with you, it's hard to hold you accountable for your actions. If we'd signed a contract, it would have been voided in court. If I'd known he was that hammered in the first place, I never would have let him play. Not everything's all that black and white. I think Nvrwin's an ass, but I don't begrudge him the money he took from Keyser. Hell, I think I would have done the same thingI always want to be as merciless as possible at the table. But at some point, generally very far along, I realize I'm a human being first, THEN a card player.Ice

[smurdogg 0]

Ice nailed it. Human first.

[bettor 0]

while it's unfortunate there exists both types of people in the poker world(neverwin, who could probably send me to the atm repeatedly and keyser, willing to go back for more)...that's poker.all walks of life represented at the table.

[THE ACE IS BACK 0]

I feel the real issue here is that nvrwin knew Keyser was a compulsive addicted gambler. If he had no clue who Keyser was and was just taking on an easy pray, FINE TAKE HIS MONEY. However I got the impression that he knew Keyser and knew his problem. That's why I feel its wrong.

[treydru21 0]

What you are Saying the ACE. is that you know nothing of the situation. You can't base something like that on the impression that you got. You dont know the situation. So what is the big deal. If you sit down at the table not to win money why in the hell are you there. If that guy was dumb enough to go back for more 3 times. Then he got what he deserved, addict or not.... Maybe if the friends that were so quick to jump on neverwin, were as quick to knock some sense into Keyser. They wouldn't have had anything to complain about

[THE ACE IS BACK 0]

Listen TREYDRU 21, I play poker to win off skilled players and fish.. I don't play poker to win off addicts. Read my post before you reply with crap. Second off, if you read the original post one of the defenders of Keyser said that he would only advance the money/bankroll to nvrwin if he DID NOT play Keyser heads-up. Therefore the advancement of funds from catchoftheday went to nvrwin NOT TO PLAY KEYSER. Obviously everyone involved knew Keyser was an addicted gambler. THERE's the situation. Here's a tip Trey read then reply. I love taking money from people that's why I gamble. I don't like taking advantage of addicts.

[Petoria 0]

I'm conflicted on this issue, I would like to think that I can't take into account the kind of person my opponent is off the table, in my decision to play against him. On the other hand, I think this is like giving the car keys to someone who is drunk, knowing that he is going to drive. Each person has to come to his own conclusion, and determine how they approach poker.

[bourbenz 0]

Listen I've played with several people who should have quit and told them so but they stayed at the table and i cleaned em out, I don't care if they have a problem, its theyre problem not mine. You ever seen a boxer not hit someone because they were hurt? no...the bottom line is a lot of the low limit people out there that you call fish are addicts too, and they rebuy and rebuy and rebuy this is where your profit comes from, it may be a harsh reality but a true one. And one you will have to look past if you want to gamble for a living. You have enough worries tending your own bankroll and not going broke, and as doyle says never quit a game when you have the best of it.jmho not trying to offend.

[4Flush 0]

I would have no problem taking it, but that's just me. :?

[daddypoker23 0]

there is a differernce between a hobby and a addiction... most of us play poker 4 fun yes we might lose a couple hundred here and there and might win a few as well but never putting ourself in debt... the thing is that neverwin knew he had a problem. and even some poker players told neverwin not to play keyser and i even believed that crafts was going to pay neverwin not to play keyser but he still did... thats a dishonest person and hopefully one day everything gets turn around and bites him up his "a" hole... joel

[Jensen 0]

catchoftheday steps in and starts talking with nvrwin about how he only agreed to transfer him some money or something if he agreed not to play Keyser HU 200-400, and nvrwin pulls some cop out that it was a misunderstanding

Catchoftheday made a deal with Neverwin, that went like this. They both wanted to play Keyser because apparantly he has a reputation for playing lousy, Neverwin said he would play Keyser, and then trasnfer a small portion of the winnings to Catchoftheday. Catch thought this to be a great deal because he wouldnt have to put any of his money in play. In the end Neverwin didn't give anything to catchoftheday and he was little bitter.That's how I understand it anyway.And Neverwin should keep the money, adictions are a sad thing, but it's no differnt that the guy that you see playing 4/8 hold'em every friday night in the same ragged clothes dipping into his wallet numerous times grabbing hundereds and hundreds and blowing his paycheck.