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would phil ivey make a good poker teacher?


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This is a bit of a follow up to my "Pick A Pro" thread. I think it's fair to say that Phil Ivey is one of the most talented poker players alive. In addition, he is ridiculously succesful at tournaments and cash games. Tournaments I know from records, cash games from speculation. But, I would lay healthy odds that he is a winning cash game player.As expected, most people put Phil on their list of "Pick A Pro". I know that I did, and from the two tournaments that I played with him, I learned a lot. With him = sitting at the same table.But Daniel brought up an interesting point, just because someone is a true talent, doesn't mean that they will be a good teacher. At the same time, a lot of poker is learned from watching, or is it?So, the question stands. Would Phil Ivey make a good poker teacher?

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This is a hard question to answer for some one like me. I've never met or played him in person, so I don't know. All I've ever had the opportunity to do is watch him play, as with all other pros. Some one like you is better able to make this kind of judgement.

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I think he might be as long as he was into teaching you.His off table personality seems to be completely different than the one he sits with. And he knows wtf he's doing, so I would say it's just a matter of wanting to do it.

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This is a hard question to answer fro some one like me. I've never met or played him in person, so I don't know. All I've ever had the opportunity to do is watch him play, as with all other pros. Some one like you is better able to make this kind of judgement.
I'm not so sure about that. I have played with Phil, and I was lucky enough to sweat him once in a big cash game. But I never ASKED him why he was doing what he was doing.Barry, Ted, and Chip "seem" like they would be good teachers. I talked to Ted about a 2-7 hand that I played one time. Another pro criticized, and I asked Ted, he gave me a much different perspective on the hand.Anyway, I'm wondering if Phil could do that. Or if he just "does what he does". Or if you can learn by watching, without thorough instruction.Again, there is no right or wrong answer, just looking for opinions.
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This is a hard question to answer fro some one like me. I've never met or played him in person, so I don't know. All I've ever had the opportunity to do is watch him play, as with all other pros. Some one like you is better able to make this kind of judgement.
I'm not so sure about that. I have played with Phil, and I was lucky enough to sweat him once in a big cash game. But I never ASKED him why he was doing what he was doing.Barry, Ted, and Chip "seem" like they would be good teachers. I talked to Ted about a 2-7 hand that I played one time. Another pro criticized, and I asked Ted, he gave me a much different perspective on the hand.Anyway, I'm wondering if Phil could do that. Or if he just "does what he does". Or if you can learn by watching, without thorough instruction.Again, there is no right or wrong answer, just looking for opinions.
I'm afraid Ill get it wrong, I hate tests!!!!!
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This is a really good question. In sports, there's the common adage that great players rarely make great coaches. Often the problem is that great players think they worked harder when in reality they had more talent. Ivey is a prodigy, so maybe he will have problems teaching.I know that I have problems sometimes teaching 6th grade math. Students are confused and reaching for their calculators, while I'm thinking "the answer's obvious".

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he taught paul darden didnt he?
I think he did, and after Paul became so successful I think he told Paul he was done giving him lessons because his game had become TOO far along.Regardless, just because you are the best at something doesn't mean you could teach someone else to be the best.The best example I can think of is Pete Sampras. No way he could teach someone how to play high caliber tennis like he did. Give Pete Sampras and Nick Bolleterri (One of the top tennis coaches in the world) the same two students, and it wouldn't even be close.I have a friend who is kind of like this. Me and him are at the same level of skill in poker, but I could explain everything I do to someone else. Not that my friend doesn't use the same throught processes, but he's not aware that he does. Therefore, if I ask him why he does something he says he doesn't know why, but later on when i point it out he says "yea i guess you're right"
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This is a hard question to answer fro some one like me. I've never met or played him in person, so I don't know. All I've ever had the opportunity to do is watch him play, as with all other pros. Some one like you is better able to make this kind of judgement.
I'm not so sure about that. I have played with Phil, and I was lucky enough to sweat him once in a big cash game. But I never ASKED him why he was doing what he was doing.Barry, Ted, and Chip "seem" like they would be good teachers. I talked to Ted about a 2-7 hand that I played one time. Another pro criticized, and I asked Ted, he gave me a much different perspective on the hand.Anyway, I'm wondering if Phil could do that. Or if he just "does what he does". Or if you can learn by watching, without thorough instruction.Again, there is no right or wrong answer, just looking for opinions.
Although I know I would learn so much from just watching Phil, I think it would be better to learn from some one who is more interactive and willing to give instruction.
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This is a hard question to answer fro some one like me. I've never met or played him in person, so I don't know. All I've ever had the opportunity to do is watch him play, as with all other pros. Some one like you is better able to make this kind of judgement.
I'm not so sure about that. I have played with Phil, and I was lucky enough to sweat him once in a big cash game. But I never ASKED him why he was doing what he was doing.Barry, Ted, and Chip "seem" like they would be good teachers. I talked to Ted about a 2-7 hand that I played one time. Another pro criticized, and I asked Ted, he gave me a much different perspective on the hand.Anyway, I'm wondering if Phil could do that. Or if he just "does what he does". Or if you can learn by watching, without thorough instruction.Again, there is no right or wrong answer, just looking for opinions.
Steve what limit ddid you playwith ivey?
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This is a hard question to answer fro some one like me. I've never met or played him in person, so I don't know. All I've ever had the opportunity to do is watch him play, as with all other pros. Some one like you is better able to make this kind of judgement.
I'm not so sure about that. I have played with Phil, and I was lucky enough to sweat him once in a big cash game. But I never ASKED him why he was doing what he was doing.Barry, Ted, and Chip "seem" like they would be good teachers. I talked to Ted about a 2-7 hand that I played one time. Another pro criticized, and I asked Ted, he gave me a much different perspective on the hand.Anyway, I'm wondering if Phil could do that. Or if he just "does what he does". Or if you can learn by watching, without thorough instruction.Again, there is no right or wrong answer, just looking for opinions.
Steve what limit ddid you playwith ivey?
I was lucky (SW) enough to have Phil at my table at two WSOP events.I've never played with him in a cash game, nor do I see that happening in the near future.
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Good Question.The only thing i could add is that, i have a friend who dosen't play much poker..a few home games here and there...and he is a GREAT..teacher..he consistantly gives good advice to people playing ..but when he plays he throws all the stuff he knows out the window..so to help answer your question..i don't think it matters goodplayer=bad teacher and vise versa..just my 2 cents..

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If you learn by watching, then you'd have a hard time finding someone better than Ivey. If you learn by instruction, he might not be the best option because it SEEMS like Ivey plays with more of a feel to the game than others. He knows the basics and the strategy, but he also SEEMS to have an ability to read his opponents as well as to intimidate them, and it's hard to explain certain aspects like this.

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i think ivey could be alright at teaching games other than holdem...but i think as with many pros such as dn, there are aspects that they just cant teach. I dont think dn could teach anybody how he is able to put people on the right hand the majority of the time. They can teach you all the mechanical issues and probably help you out with some key info for tells but what makes these players great is their instinct and you cant teach that

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This is a bit of a follow up to my "Pick A Pro" thread. I think it's fair to say that Phil Ivey is one of the most talented poker players alive. In addition, he is ridiculously succesful at tournaments and cash games. Tournaments I know from records, cash games from speculation. But, I would lay healthy odds that he is a winning cash game player.As expected, most people put Phil on their list of "Pick A Pro". I know that I did, and from the two tournaments that I played with him, I learned a lot. With him = sitting at the same table.But Daniel brought up an interesting point, just because someone is a true talent, doesn't mean that they will be a good teacher. At the same time, a lot of poker is learned from watching, or is it?So, the question stands. Would Phil Ivey make a good poker teacher?
I would liken it to being a successfull Sales Rep. You could be in the top 1% of the sales reps nation wide and still not be able to manage a team worth s hit. Same with teaching and playing poker.
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i had the pleasure of playing 40/80 stud at bellagio one night with paul darden. most interesting time ive ever had at the poker table. the man makes sick reads and was always dead on calling hands. he also happened to mention that ivey was his mentor and gave him all the praise in the world in terms of his teaching ability. just my 2 cents

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he taught paul darden didnt he?
Ive only seen Darden play the 03 WS. and after watching him make horrible calls Id say Ivey might not be the best teacher. btw, no flaming on this please, I dont really know if PD is good or not, I just remember him making some bad plays.
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he taught paul darden didnt he?
Ive only seen Darden play the 03 WS. and after watching him make horrible calls Id say Ivey might not be the best teacher. btw, no flaming on this please, I dont really know if PD is good or not, I just remember him making some bad plays.
Well I know Darden has to be decent in stud cause he has a bracelet.http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=8078
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When you teach,............... you make yourself better. The "student" poses questions to you that make you "think". Sometimes there easy questions, and sometimes they are very hard to answer or are unanswerable.If you are selfish, and keep your knowledge and experiences to yourself, than you are stunting your own growth. (not to mention turning more and more to the "dark side")I have read and heard that phill does tell of his experiences. As do alot of the pros. I don't know the OP, but I have noticed that he is very giving of advice. This only can make him better.

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I think what makes the great players great is their ability to read people, and I don't know if this can be taught. I think DN, TJ, Ivey, Reese, are all big winners because they can sense weakness, which I believe is part natural ability, and part experience, neither of which can be taught.

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A huge factor in one's effectiveness in teaching others is their ability to verbalize what they know. Regardless of the amount of knowledge and skill a person has, if they can't put what they know into words effectively, they won't be a good teacher.Phil may be someone whose talent is so innate and convoluted that he would have trouble explaining it to others. He's often referred to as a "creative" player, which to me just means that his poker play is hard for others to understand. His play could be mathematically perfect for all we know. The word "creative" doesn't necessarily lend itself much to "perfection." It's just that we don't get it, so we call it creative.The other factor that other posts have touched on is his willingness to teach, which definitely correlates with teaching efficacy.

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