Bubba83 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Ultimate Bet 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is UTG with J:diamond:, J:spade:. Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.Flop: (8 SB) 8:spade:, A:diamond:, 4:diamond: (4 players)SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds, SB folds.Turn: (5 BB) 7:club: (2 players)BB bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 6 BBHow would you guys have played this? Any differently? If yes, can you explain your theory? BB was one of those players that didn't pay much attention to if he could check raise etc, he'd just bet his hand even if it was a stop n go etc. Link to post Share on other sites
MrNiceGuy 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Given that read, I fold the flop - this will be an A or better more often than not. I think I fold this flop unless I have a read that tells me BB is fairly likely to not have an A or better. (Even if bettor doesn't have a hand, one of the other players might.)You could argue that your J and backdoor flush outs give you about the right odds to call the flop, but it could easily get raised behind you. Link to post Share on other sites
TheCinciKid 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Raise/fold the flop. If he calls then bets the turn you fold UI. Link to post Share on other sites
screech 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Raise/fold the flop. If he calls then bets the turn you fold UI.Yep. Link to post Share on other sites
Petoria 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Raise/fold the flop. If he calls then bets the turn you fold UI.Yep.You'll get a fold from the BB more often than you think. Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Ultimate Bet 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is UTG with J:diamond:, J:spade:. Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.Flop: (8 SB) 8:spade:, A:diamond:, 4:diamond: (4 players)SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds, SB folds.Turn: (5 BB) 7:club: (2 players)BB bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 6 BBHow would you guys have played this? Any differently? If yes, can you explain your theory? BB was one of those players that didn't pay much attention to if he could check raise etc, he'd just bet his hand even if it was a stop n go etc.i think you played this poorly - you have two options here IMO:you can raise/fold the flop as suggested ORyou can call down.but just calling the flop and folding the turn is pointless. he is almost never betting the flop and checking the turn here, so you are essentially calling and hoping for a jack, which you don't have close to the odds to do.daniel Link to post Share on other sites
zimmer4141 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I would raise/call the flop, then if he leads the turn after 3 betting and I don't hit a J or a diamond then I fold. I think it is a good idea to call the extra SB here with 13 already in the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
TheCinciKid 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 I would raise/call the flop, then if he leads the turn after 3 betting and I don't hit a J or a diamond then I fold. I think it is a good idea to call the extra SB here with 13 already in the pot.I think I like this a little bit better than the line I suggested. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 This player was so straight forward though that I think raising the flop is a spew. I think in this situation I would have preferred just folding on the flop. Is that a bad play? Link to post Share on other sites
Mattnxtc 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 then why call the flop bet? following your line of thinking you are drawing to 3 outs2 jacks and 1 out for the backdoor flush, which means you need to be getting around 14-1. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 I recognize I shouldn't have called the flop, and then folded the turn. What I am wondering now is if anyone can tell me why the raise/fold line is better than just folding the flop against this opponent. Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Not sure i'd ever raise/fold.I raise/call the flop or just fold. I bet the turn if he calls the flop and checks the turn. I fold if he bets and i dont improve. I always check behind on the river UI.After you raise, you have odds to call one more bet easily unless you "put him on aces". Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 Against this opponent, I'm easily putting him on aces from his bet out, I don't need to see a 3 bet to know he has it. If I had raised the flop, I can also almost guarantee that he would not be the type to 3 bet a pair of aces, and I'd be spewing a bet on the turn after he gives me the lead in the hand. I just think folding the flop is a lot better still than getting into any of this. If it was a different player, or even one that I have no read on, I'd use raise/fold I think. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerplayer24 0 Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Against this opponent, I'm easily putting him on aces from his bet out, I don't need to see a 3 bet to know he has it. If I had raised the flop, I can also almost guarantee that he would not be the type to 3 bet a pair of aces, and I'd be spewing a bet on the turn after he gives me the lead in the hand. I just think folding the flop is a lot better still than getting into any of this. If it was a different player, or even one that I have no read on, I'd use raise/fold I think.In this case if your read is so strong that you are sure that he has an A then why post the hand since if thats the case then folding is obviously the correct play.Though without a great read on your opponent this is definitely a raise / fold spot on the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 My read isn't that strong, I'd say I'm thinking he has an ace like 80% of the time here. He definitely has something, and it isn't a draw (he never bet a draw), I don't think he's the type to bet out with middle pair, but I haven't really seen him heads up with middle pair on the flop yet. How sure do I have to be that BB has an ace to want to fold this? It's a pretty small pot. The other reason I posted was because I wanted to see how many people would call for runner runner diamonds and for a re-evaluation on the turn. If he slows down on the turn and checks i probably have the best hand. When he leads the turn now i'm almost positive he has the ace.Assuming he has an ace 80% of the time, should I be fighting for this pot with a flop raise, or giving up? Link to post Share on other sites
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